Seems the new SAT questions are getting more relevant.
Steve
I like the "Pay as you go" method.
My parents originally were going to pay for my degree, but when I dropped out (at 18-19) from my first year of college, my dad said I was on my own, and cut all finances... hah... so I had to scramble. I eventually went back a few years later, and I just paid for classes as I took them. My associates degree was fairly inexpensive. I think at the time I paid maybe $300-$400 a class, which is much cheaper than Masters classes (which are anywhere from $1,600 to $3,000 each).
So, I think I had to take 120 credits, with classes costing me about $100 per credit... so that's $12,000... which really isn't much for a good 2 year program. I of course then went on to get my bachelors and then my masters, etc... but I think getting the Associates Degree first was really the best way to go. Most kids, they'll leave high school and go right for the 4-year bachelors degree. If they don't quite cut it, or they don't finish it, they leave with nothing. Going to a good community college, or two year accredited college is really the way to go. You're not wasting money because you're spending that time to take mostly core classes. You can then start to specialize as you decide what you really want to do. I got my associates in Computer Science... which could have opened the door for any bachelors degree in anything with computers basically. I chose Software Engineering, because that's what I was already doing, so it helped build a foundation for something that I was already doing as a career.
I think for the people that can handle it... going to school right out of high school is good. But I personally believe you get more out of college if you are ABLE to get into the field you want, get some experience, and then take classes while you work. It helps you really apply the fundamentals and the lessons learned in school to your actual career. Schools today tend to really just teach regurgitation of information if you know what I mean.
I think it's also good to be humble too in class... even if you kind of assume you know more than the teacher does. There's always SOMETHING the teacher can teach you about a topic you already know.
According to all GAO and private polling reports, the vast majority of unpaid student loan balances are from those students who drop OUT of college and don't finish to get a degree.
In spite of what some people think, less than 9% of college loan borrowers have defaulted on their student loans in the latest economic recession.
In 2012, approx 600,000 student loans went into default. In the same year, 1.2 million US individuals filed for bankruptcy protection from non-IRS/non-student loan debt. The default rate for student loans was 1/2 what the general population's loan default was.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-10-2014).]
I think for the people that can handle it... going to school right out of high school is good. But I personally believe you get more out of college if you are ABLE to get into the field you want, get some experience, and then take classes while you work. It helps you really apply the fundamentals and the lessons learned in school to your actual career. Schools today tend to really just teach regurgitation of information if you know what I mean.
I have always said that degree means more if you have worked in the field before you got it, it shows that the books ain't always right, things in the real world do not always follow what the books taught you. and it makes you more acceptable of those people bellow you when they say something ain't going to work, or something ain't working. the worst engineers I have worked with were the ones right out of school with just book learning and no field experience. the best were the ones who had worked in the field before getting their degrees, they would listen or at least explain the reason something was planned the way they did and would except it when they were wrong and I would when I was wrong.
But the, it works on paper, or the computer says or any number of other stupid statements by the kids just out of school just plain pissed me off. I always accepted the fact I was just a peon in the whole scheme of things and would earn less, but I didn't like being pissed on by those kids who knew they were right when they were wrong.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I like the "Pay as you go" method.
My parents originally were going to pay for my degree, but when I dropped out (at 18-19) from my first year of college, my dad said I was on my own, and cut all finances... hah... so I had to scramble. I eventually went back a few years later, and I just paid for classes as I took them. My associates degree was fairly inexpensive. I think at the time I paid maybe $300-$400 a class, which is much cheaper than Masters classes (which are anywhere from $1,600 to $3,000 each).
So, I think I had to take 120 credits, with classes costing me about $100 per credit... so that's $12,000... which really isn't much for a good 2 year program. I of course then went on to get my bachelors and then my masters, etc... but I think getting the Associates Degree first was really the best way to go. Most kids, they'll leave high school and go right for the 4-year bachelors degree. If they don't quite cut it, or they don't finish it, they leave with nothing. Going to a good community college, or two year accredited college is really the way to go. You're not wasting money because you're spending that time to take mostly core classes. You can then start to specialize as you decide what you really want to do. I got my associates in Computer Science... which could have opened the door for any bachelors degree in anything with computers basically. I chose Software Engineering, because that's what I was already doing, so it helped build a foundation for something that I was already doing as a career.
I think for the people that can handle it... going to school right out of high school is good. But I personally believe you get more out of college if you are ABLE to get into the field you want, get some experience, and then take classes while you work. It helps you really apply the fundamentals and the lessons learned in school to your actual career. Schools today tend to really just teach regurgitation of information if you know what I mean.
I think it's also good to be humble too in class... even if you kind of assume you know more than the teacher does. There's always SOMETHING the teacher can teach you about a topic you already know.
I'm going to have to disagree. It really depends on what field you're going into. In my last several months of job searching I've seen exactly zero job listings with an Associate's in the education requirements. They're all "Bachelor's or equivalent job experience". If'n you're going into IT, IMO, an Associate's isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
Since the quality of education has deteriorated over the past 50 years, many kids coming out of high school can barely read. Today, once out of high school, they start college and need remedial classes to get up to speed. There has been a dumbing down of the education in high school and grade inflation. The philosophy of social grade advancement so as not to "embarrass" the student and make them feel bad has taken over the education of the student.
Now companies hiring, want new hires know how to think and read, so expect a minimum of a BS degree (which also is being diluted now) or a masters degree.
Back in the mid 1960s when I graduated from high school, I went on to obtain an AAS (associates in applied science) as it was better than just a high school diploma. I would have continued, however there was something called the draft and you could get one degree, before the government called you to service. Once the draft was calling, I enlisted. At least with the AAS degree I was able to get into a long technical school.
SATs is just a way to measure competency and their are complaints that they are "too hard" and are not useful. In Florida there are FCAT tests to measure student achievement and many parents, teachers and students complain the all they encourage is to teach to pass the FCAT and not critical thinking. I don't know the answer to that.
Originally posted by Rallaster: I'm going to have to disagree. It really depends on what field you're going into. In my last several months of job searching I've seen exactly zero job listings with an Associate's in the education requirements. They're all "Bachelor's or equivalent job experience". If'n you're going into IT, IMO, an Associate's isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
I wasn't really very clear on what I meant. I'm not saying a 2-year degree is the answer for everyone. To be clear, I meant kids who aren't really ready for the 4-year degree and who likely "drop out" after say 2-3 years. They are then basically left with nothing. If they're unsure or not really motivated, a 2-year degree can be an excellent thing because it's cheaper for the parents (or the kid if he/she is paying for themselves) and they'll still end up with an accredited degree that they can now take ANYWHERE to ANY college, and simply continue two more years to get their bachelors degree. It's also good for people who don't really know what they want out of a degree yet.
But I agree with you on simply having an "Associates" degree. I've never seen a job that asks for one. I suppose certain vocations look fondly on it when all that's required is a high school diploma, but the Associates degree is just a first step towards a bachelors. But... an Associates can be good for the adult that already has a bachelors and Masters that wants to go back and wants to get a core degree in a subject that they don't know about. I could go get a Masters in Electrical Engineering right now... and I would probably get straight As... but I would come out basically not knowing anything about Electrical Engineering.
For that matter, I'm enrolled in a 2-year college to get an Electrical Engineering primer degree (right now). I'll get Circuits 101, Digital Circuits 101, Electrical Components 101, all that stuff... classes that I simply wouldn't get in a Masters. I've already got a Masters in Information Assurance, and a bachelors in Software Engineering, but I just didn't like the direction the Masters would go in EE. It basically left out everything to do with RF signals across the spectrum of light, phase shift, all that stuff that I only have real basic knowledge on (not even a working knowledge). I want to be able to open up my Atari 2600 and know what every single component on the board is.
As I'm finding in the construction mgmt world, you'd better have your BS and they would really prefer you have your MS in civil engineering or something closely related. That's why I'm continuing immediately onto a masters degree program after I graduate from the program I'm in. Thinking of getting an MBA with PM to kind of broaden my skills. That may still change though. Not the masters degree, but what I get it in may change.I have no intention of being one of those individuals that's behind the curve.
I have always said that degree means more if you have worked in the field before you got it, it shows that the books ain't always right, things in the real world do not always follow what the books taught you. and it makes you more acceptable of those people bellow you when they say something ain't going to work, or something ain't working. the worst engineers I have worked with were the ones right out of school with just book learning and no field experience. the best were the ones who had worked in the field before getting their degrees, they would listen or at least explain the reason something was planned the way they did and would except it when they were wrong and I would when I was wrong.
Steve
I'm finding this to be more and more true for the majority of people that I've ended up working with. The teachers I've always liked best, are the ones who had previously worked in the industry for which they are teaching. I learn the most from them.
There are kids who come out of college (or go into college) as pure geniuses. I'd like to think that I'm fairly intelligent, but there are kids who go into school, and come out with a straight-A, that simply have a different capacity for intelligence than most of us. They generally excel in something specific like spatial, mathematics, or some form of chemical or applied science, but generally are obtuse in all other concepts of life. Anyway, these guys come out of school, and it doesn't really matter what's correct and what isn't... because they'll simply re-invent something in a way that most of us didn't think possible. They are the exception to the rule of course... but many colleges have simply become a diploma mill of sorts.
I do agree though... it's so much better for someone to get their feet wet, earn a degree while working in that field because they can properly apply what they are learning to real-world situations. The unfortunate aspect of this though is that most places won't hire now without at least a 4-year degree. I think the problem with many college students today is a lot more indicative of the issues with today's youth. Everyone "leaves the nest" with the impression that they are infallible. My parents obviously put me up on a pedestal too... but I learned work ethic from my father. I quickly learned that it doesn't matter who or what you are, unless you work hard... it doesn't make a difference how awesome you think you are. But many kids today grow up with the believe that they are owed something, and that's a much greater example of the problems we see today than simply kids who get degrees.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Most kids, they'll leave high school and go right for the 4-year bachelors degree. If they don't quite cut it, or they don't finish it, they leave with nothing. Going to a good community college, or two year accredited college is really the way to go. You're not wasting money because you're spending that time to take mostly core classes. You can then start to specialize as you decide what you really want to do.
My only caution with this thought process is the caliber of the 4 year college you plan to attend and how rigorous the program is.
I took 2 local community college classes (Calc 1 and Chem 1) the summer before going to the U of I at Champaign/Urbana College of Engineering. At the community college everything was open book. You didn't have to memorize the formulas, just look them up in the book. You could even use calculators for everything as well. Very laid back, low key, and not really intellectually challenging.
Once at the U of I, everything was closed book and no calculators. If you wanted to use a formula, it had to be in your head. The people who transferred into the program after 2 years really struggled because all the base material from their first 2 years was not committed to memory and they had become too accustomed to the "open book" method of testing. In situations like this, its best to go all 4 years at the same place.
My only caution with this thought process is the caliber of the 4 year college you plan to attend and how rigorous the program is.
I took 2 local community college classes (Calc 1 and Chem 1) the summer before going to the U of I at Champaign/Urbana College of Engineering. At the community college everything was open book. You didn't have to memorize the formulas, just look them up in the book. You could even use calculators for everything as well. Very laid back, low key, and not really intellectually challenging.
Once at the U of I, everything was closed book and no calculators. If you wanted to use a formula, it had to be in your head. The people who transferred into the program after 2 years really struggled because all the base material from their first 2 years was not committed to memory and they had become too accustomed to the "open book" method of testing. In situations like this, its best to go all 4 years at the same place.
Geeze, I assumed that all Community Colleges were held to the same standard. In my community college (Was called Broward Community College, now just Broward College), we weren't allowed to use calculators for anything above College Algebra. Trig, Calc, and Calc w/ Applied Physics (the core first-two-year maths...) all had to be done strictly with pencil and paper, NO calculator. That was 5-6 years ago.
