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Home schooled? Don't look for a job here. by avengador1
Started on: 05-06-2014 09:29 PM
Replies: 31 (578 views)
Last post by: Pyrthian on 05-09-2014 12:59 PM
avengador1
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Report this Post05-06-2014 09:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Cheever3000Send a Private Message to Cheever3000Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That's exceedingly ignorant. But I suspect there is more to it than their ignorance.
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Report this Post05-06-2014 09:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What's the big deal? just go take a test for a GED, they can't deny the job then.

Steve

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Report this Post05-06-2014 09:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for OKflyboySend a Private Message to OKflyboyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:

What's the big deal? just go take a test for a GED, they can't deny the job then.


But he already has a fully legal high school diploma. It would be like denying him a job because he graduated from the High School on the north side of town instead of the one on the south side of town. "Sorry, we don't hire North High students, only South High. But hey, what's the big deal? Just go get a GED..."

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 05-06-2014).]

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84fiero123
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Report this Post05-06-2014 10:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by OKflyboy:


But he already has a fully legal high school diploma. It would be like denying him a job because he graduated from the High School on the north side of town instead of the one on the south side of town. "Sorry, we don't hire North High students, only South High. But hey, what's the big deal? Just go get a GED..."



Hey I agree with you, just saying all he needs to do is pass a GED test and he is hired, now it will be in court for years and no job. Didn't say they were right, hell one company I worked for was so anal after I left they instituted the no smokers not only on the jobsite but at all. how illegal is that? Cianbro is the company by the way, look it up.

here I will make it easy for you,

http://www.cianbro.com/careers.aspx

read the bottom paragraph.

Steve

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 05-06-2014).]

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Report this Post05-06-2014 10:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for OKflyboySend a Private Message to OKflyboyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:


Hey I agree with you, just saying all he needs to do is pass a GED test and he is hired, now it will be in court for years and no job. Didn't say they were right, hell one company I worked for was so anal after I left they instituted the no smokers not only on the jobsite but at all. how illegal is that? Cianbro is the company by the way, look it up.

here I will make it easy for you,

http://www.cianbro.com/careers.aspx

read the bottom paragraph.

Steve



Fair 'nuff, though I'm not sure that a GED would do any good, he'd still have been educated at home, a GED wouldn't change anything except it would be exchanging one high-school-alternative diploma for another...
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84fiero123
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Report this Post05-06-2014 10:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by OKflyboy:


Fair 'nuff, though I'm not sure that a GED would do any good, he'd still have been educated at home, a GED wouldn't change anything except it would be exchanging one high-school-alternative diploma for another...


You may be right, but then he would technically have 2 and more fire for his court case. I have a friend who home schools his kids, they have to pass a test every year to go onto the next grade. problem is who is to say the parents aren't taking the test for the kid. now these girls haven't reached high school yet so I really don't know if the high school test requires them to go someplace to take that test. but my thinking is just that and the company may feel the same way. so a ged is taken at an accredited place, home schooled kids I think just take another test at home, I think. Not sure.

Steve
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Report this Post05-06-2014 11:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KhwClick Here to Email KhwSend a Private Message to KhwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I once heard that one reason for something like this is "lack of social interaction" of home schooled children. They haven't gotten the experience of life with peers like a child who goes through traditional schooling. It can make working with others in a work place difficult. At least that's what I remember as the reason behind such things from what I read or heard on AM radio. In actuality I can kind of see the point as our daughters got introduced to a couple of boys that were home schooled. They were neighbors of a boy that was sweet on our eldest before he moved away last year (this was in the 12 to 13 year old ages). These boys "latched" on to our two daughters and their lack of social skills was rather obvious, sadly. We put a stop to that quick.

Reading the article though, the applicant it focused on, the above doesn't really seem to fit with the years of experience and college courses in addition to his home schooled diploma.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 05-06-2014).]

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Report this Post05-06-2014 11:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for OKflyboySend a Private Message to OKflyboyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Khw:

I once heard that one reason for something like this is "lack of social interaction" of home schooled children. They haven't gotten the experience of life with peers like a child who goes through traditional schooling. It can make working with others in a work place difficult. At least that's what I remember as the reason behind such things from what I read or heard on AM radio. In actuality I can kind of see the point as our daughters got introduced to a couple of boys that were home schooled. They were neighbors of a boy that was sweet on our eldest before he moved away last year (this was in the 12 to 13 year old ages). These boys "latched" on to our two daughters and their lack of social skills was rather obvious, sadly. We put a stop to that quick.

Reading the article though, the applicant it focused on, the above doesn't really seem to fit with the years of experience and college courses in addition to his home schooled diploma.



I've been discussing this on Facebook as well and one of my friends (a firefighter) said much the same thing. He said he knows he's worked with two homeschooled firefighters and both of them had problems with social interaction.

 
quote
Originally posted by OKflyboy:


But he already has a fully legal high school diploma. It would be like denying him a job because he graduated from the High School on the north side of town instead of the one on the south side of town. "Sorry, we don't hire North High students, only South High. But hey, what's the big deal? Just go get a GED..."



I looked up the info for Indiana (where the link story occurred) and they do not require standardized testing nor are there any standards for how the Homeschooling should be conducted:

**Although the child must be “provided with instruction equivalent to that given in public schools,”Ind. Code§20-33-2-28, the State Board of Education is not given the authority to define “equivalent instruction” nor to approve home schools. Furthermore,Ind. Code§20-33-2-12(a) has removed all subject requirements, leaving home schools without any mandatory subjects.**

So I stand corrected, this guy did not have any sort of high-school equivalency diploma.
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Report this Post05-07-2014 09:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ZebSend a Private Message to ZebEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:


Hey I agree with you, just saying all he needs to do is pass a GED test and he is hired, now it will be in court for years and no job. Didn't say they were right, hell one company I worked for was so anal after I left they instituted the no smokers not only on the jobsite but at all. how illegal is that? Cianbro is the company by the way, look it up.

here I will make it easy for you,

http://www.cianbro.com/careers.aspx

read the bottom paragraph.

Steve



That "tobacco-free" BS from Cianbro is annoying, and I don't even smoke any more! However they do say they hire the physically and mentally handicapped. Hmm.. can we just re-classify tobacco addiction as a disability?
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Report this Post05-07-2014 12:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:

hell one company I worked for was so anal after I left they instituted the no smokers not only on the jobsite but at all. how illegal is that?



Depends on the state. Smokers aren't recognized as a protected class on a Federal level (like race, gender or national origin) but some states do offer some level of protection.

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Report this Post05-07-2014 01:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theBDubSend a Private Message to theBDubEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Zeb:


That "tobacco-free" BS from Cianbro is annoying, and I don't even smoke any more! However they do say they hire the physically and mentally handicapped. Hmm.. can we just re-classify tobacco addiction as a disability?


Just can't smoke on site, most likely.
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Report this Post05-07-2014 01:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Zeb:
That "tobacco-free" BS from Cianbro is annoying, and I don't even smoke any more! However they do say they hire the physically and mentally handicapped. Hmm.. can we just re-classify tobacco addiction as a disability?


I don't know if we could or not and don't care, I already have so many things going for or should I say against me that qualify me as disabled. the stroke, the 6 herniated discs in my back, the heart quadruple by pass. but when I was at Cianbro they made us smoke only on brakes and only in designated areas during brakes. Funny thing was when the guys came onto the rigs to check our work out that owned the place they were smoking like 2+ packs a day and didn't care if we smoked or not. But being a welder most of the time it really never affected me, I just smoked with my hood down.

But as it says now they won't even heir you if you smoke, I think it is because their health insurance they give you is cheaper for a non smoker.

Now as far as this thread and the socialization of the kids home schooled I see that with my friends kids, they would see me all the time when I went over to help him work on his cars or weld something for him and they had no socialization skills or what ever you call it. granted they do take then to ballet classes and other social events but they are very standoffish to even me and they have seen me almost every day for sometimes weeks on end. they love animals but dad has non so they came over here to see babies we had recently had, goats and mini horses. Melanie gave here a baby bunny one time and the kid screamed bloody murder, I thought she was going to have a heart attack.

so I can see how not being socialized with other kids their age can be a bad thing.

Steve
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Report this Post05-07-2014 02:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Social Interaction:

- I see a couple of people mentioned that, and I don't know if that's the reason (deep down) that they are rejecting these applicants, but it does tend to be something that causes strife for a lot of these people who were home-schooled as adults (that have not had the opportunity to go off to college yet). Doesn't make it right, and no one is necessarily saying that the social experiences one gets in a public or private school is better... but it sort of puts the student behind the times. There are a lot of after-school activities though that people can go to... but unless the parents work hard at it... it becomes an up-hill battle for the child when they enter college.
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Report this Post05-07-2014 02:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for acemanSend a Private Message to acemanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I, personally find all of this all rediculous.

The company's offical statement is that they will gladly hire someone with a GED.....

The reality is that the person with a GED listed on the resume would likely be thown in the trash immediately.
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Report this Post05-07-2014 03:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theBDubSend a Private Message to theBDubEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think it's fine.

The company is free to make that decision.

I am not sure why the company told the person that was the reason for not hiring... but it shouldn't be illegal. It's their call.
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Report this Post05-07-2014 05:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RallasterSend a Private Message to RallasterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by OKflyboy:


I looked up the info for Indiana (where the link story occurred) and they do not require standardized testing nor are there any standards for how the Homeschooling should be conducted:

**Although the child must be “provided with instruction equivalent to that given in public schools,”Ind. Code§20-33-2-28, the State Board of Education is not given the authority to define “equivalent instruction” nor to approve home schools. Furthermore,Ind. Code§20-33-2-12(a) has removed all subject requirements, leaving home schools without any mandatory subjects.**

So I stand corrected, this guy did not have any sort of high-school equivalency diploma.


Read to the bottom of the page:

 
quote
Getting a Diploma
Homeschooled children will not receive a diploma from the local public school or from the state. The IDOE suggests you use an accredited correspondence program which grants a diploma upon completion.

Students who are issued a diploma by the administrator (parent or legal guardian) of an Indiana homeschool possess a legally issued, non-accredited diploma according to the State of Indiana. Homeschools, like all other non-accredited, nonpublic schools, may legally issue a diploma to students that complete the graduation requirements of that school, as established by that school.

Indiana law requires homeschools to give instruction equivalent to public schools but does not bind any requirements set forth with regard to curriculum or the content of educational programs offered by the school.

Sixteen year-old home educated students may choose to take the general equivalency exam to earn a general educational development certificate (GED).The forms required for participation in GED testing are available at local GED testing sites, or from ]www.gedtest.org


While it is a non-accredited diploma, it is still considered a legally-issued diploma so long as the student has met the requirements of the homeschool. Now, here's the kicker. There are nationally accredited homeschool correspondence programs that can issue fully legal, fully accredited diplomas at the successful completion of the program.

I am close friends with a pair of siblings that were homeschooled using a nationally accredited homeschool program. I also know someone whose parents went the non-accredited route and he got his GED at 17 and was awarded his bachelor's degree from IUPUI just days before his 21st birthday. In both cases social interaction is a MAJOR issue. None of them make friends very easily and cooperative teamwork is extremely difficult.

Edit to add that everything here about Indiana diploma requirements in null in this argument as the Indiana company is using Ohio law to makes it's decision because the potential employee in this case graduated from an Ohio homeschool.

[This message has been edited by Rallaster (edited 05-07-2014).]

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quote
Originally posted by aceman:
I, personally find all of this all rediculous.

The company's offical statement is that they will gladly hire someone with a GED.....

The reality is that the person with a GED listed on the resume would likely be thrown in the trash immediately.


As my brother in law said when he was at Intel, applications from lower level colleges like San Jose State and Fresno State go straight in the trash.
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Report this Post05-07-2014 07:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carnut122Send a Private Message to carnut122Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Where are all of the people who say a company should be able to hire who they want?
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Report this Post05-07-2014 07:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RallasterSend a Private Message to RallasterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by carnut122:

Where are all of the people who say a company should be able to hire who they want?


I'm really on the fence about this one. One the one hand, yes, it is a company and yes, they can, within certain limitations disqualify someone for employment. On the other hand, this person has been denied employment because of a decision his parents made that was completely out of his control.

Also, that an Indiana company is using Ohio law to make hiring decisions is wonky at best.
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Report this Post05-08-2014 12:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Marvin McInnisClick Here to visit Marvin McInnis's HomePageSend a Private Message to Marvin McInnisEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Accreditation matters.
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Report this Post05-08-2014 12:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theBDubSend a Private Message to theBDubEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by carnut122:

Where are all of the people who say a company should be able to hire who they want?


 
quote
Originally posted by theBDub:

I think it's fine.

The company is free to make that decision.

I am not sure why the company told the person that was the reason for not hiring... but it shouldn't be illegal. It's their call.


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Report this Post05-08-2014 08:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroReinkeClick Here to Email FieroReinkeSend a Private Message to FieroReinkeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think the company has the right to not hire a homeschooled worker if they choose, but I would not make a public statement because of the bad publicity it would bring. I personnally would not hold it against an applicant if they made it through the interview process. I review a lot of applications for jobs here at my plant, and i will admit to disregarding applications easily due to what some would call trivial matters. For example, if you have a spelling error on your resume and you are applying for a high level position then its going in the trash. I have also not recommended applicants after interviewing them because of the inability to articulate or lack of communication skills. I also make a dertemination as to whether I think they will be able to interact well with my work force and I have disregarded many because I didnt think they would be accepted well even though they met all other requirements.
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Report this Post05-08-2014 08:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for acemanSend a Private Message to acemanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
personnally should be personally

dertemination should be determination.

NO JOB FOR YOU!
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Report this Post05-08-2014 10:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for htexans1Click Here to Email htexans1Send a Private Message to htexans1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
http://www.k12.com/

Upon completeion of the homeschool program here, k-12 of Kansas issues a regular High School diploma from a local KS High School. The Diploma is exactly the same one the public school issues its students.

While the company is free to hire who it wishes, they are obviously wrong about the homeschooled children in some areas.

Homeshooled kids are even allowed to participate in varsity sports at local schools, if they desire.
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Report this Post05-08-2014 11:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroReinkeClick Here to Email FieroReinkeSend a Private Message to FieroReinkeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by aceman:

personnally should be personally

dertemination should be determination.

NO JOB FOR YOU!


good thing that wasn't a resume...and only a quick post from my phone

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Report this Post05-08-2014 12:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Purple86GTClick Here to Email Purple86GTSend a Private Message to Purple86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by OKflyboy:


But he already has a fully legal high school diploma. It would be like denying him a job because he graduated from the High School on the north side of town instead of the one on the south side of town. "Sorry, we don't hire North High students, only South High. But hey, what's the big deal? Just go get a GED..."



I'll start off by saying that I don't agree or disagree...

One point I would like to make: A regular school teaches you more than academics. It teaches you to interact with peers, network, establish yourself in the school community and learn to resolve problems with your peers. (in most cases... there are exceptions these days I guess). Homeschooling can teach you academics and be very smart, but there is a whole other aspect that you might be missing. Education is an important tool in your toolbox but it is not the only tool you need. (Wow would Steve love to quote this one...) .

You need to live before you enter the workforce. You need to make friends, make enemies, have your heart broken, brake some hearts, get into fights and resolve them. Learn to listen to other people's ideas and voice your own. Meet other cultures and understand how they see things.

The best years of my life were in high school. I learned more than any book can ever teach me.


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Report this Post05-08-2014 01:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RallasterSend a Private Message to RallasterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Marvin McInnis:

Accreditation matters.


I agree to a certain extent. He has work experience and industry accepted certifications, at what point does high school accreditation become a non-issue? Does it ever, or will when he's 50 with 30 years worth of experience and certs get turned down for a job because his HS diploma isn't accredited? In my opinion, to flat out deny someone employment because of a decision their parents made regarding their education, I think, is wrong. Legally, it may be acceptable, but I think it's morally and ethically wrong.

According to the article posted, the person in the article already has valuable experience in the field AND various highly sought after industry certifications and their offer was rescinded after the company in question found out the person was homeschooled. This person had already submitted a resume and been through the interview (and possibly testing process) and was doing pre-employment paperwork when he was told he couldn't have the job because of a decision his parents did an unknown number of years ago.
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Report this Post05-08-2014 08:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carnut122Send a Private Message to carnut122Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theBDub:



I have it covered as I used "people."
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Report this Post05-09-2014 10:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PyrthianClick Here to Email PyrthianSend a Private Message to PyrthianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
is someone looking for big government and regulations to tell a business who it can and cant hire?

I do find it telling that the article is also completely one sided. non-stop defending of the "home schoolers". is this some kind of home-schoolers newsletter?


one size does not fit all. some can home brew. some can run business out a home. some grow fruits & veggies. some make clothes. some do auto repair. some do computer repair. and - some of those who do these home activities are not actually very good at it. maybe some businesses dont want to take the chances on a shade-tree-teacher, and the lack of documentation that comes with that.
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Rallaster
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Report this Post05-09-2014 12:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RallasterSend a Private Message to RallasterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Pyrthian:

is someone looking for big government and regulations to tell a business who it can and cant hire?

I do find it telling that the article is also completely one sided. non-stop defending of the "home schoolers". is this some kind of home-schoolers newsletter?


one size does not fit all. some can home brew. some can run business out a home. some grow fruits & veggies. some make clothes. some do auto repair. some do computer repair. and - some of those who do these home activities are not actually very good at it. maybe some businesses dont want to take the chances on a shade-tree-teacher, and the lack of documentation that comes with that.


I'd like to go back to a question I posed: Will his HS education, or potential lack thereof, matter when he's got 20+ years experience in the field with numerous necessary certifications that says he knows what he's doing.

Sure, straight out of homeschool and looking for a job I can that making a difference, but not 30 years later. I don't know how old the guy in question is, but according to the article he already has experience in his field, which hopefully was vetted by the new hiring company, and has various industry accepted certifications. At what point does that become more important than his HS education?
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Report this Post05-09-2014 12:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PyrthianClick Here to Email PyrthianSend a Private Message to PyrthianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rallaster:
I'd like to go back to a question I posed: Will his HS education, or potential lack thereof, matter when he's got 20+ years experience in the field with numerous necessary certifications that says he knows what he's doing.

Sure, straight out of homeschool and looking for a job I can that making a difference, but not 30 years later. I don't know how old the guy in question is, but according to the article he already has experience in his field, which hopefully was vetted by the new hiring company, and has various industry accepted certifications. At what point does that become more important than his HS education?


I wouldnt think so.
as someone who makes a living on self taught skills and industry certs, I rely on this 100%.
not one client or employer has given a squat about my HS education

anyways - off quote:
but, this stills goes back to: who is asking for big government to put regulations in place to "fix" this?
this really shows the self centeredness of "these" folks. they actually DO want big government & regulations - just the parts which DIRECTLY suit their own needs.

but - in the end - I cannot imagine what kind of job this is when HS education is a breaking point.
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