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my heads - I'm letting the cat out of the bag by lou_dias
Started on: 09-28-2021 12:56 PM
Replies: 15 (415 views)
Last post by: lou_dias on 10-07-2021 05:22 PM
lou_dias
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Report this Post09-28-2021 12:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


I thought I was getting a good port job for my new motor ... until I pulled my current/old heads to compare.
Now I'll have to transfer the new valve train over. Bigger 1.8/1.5 valves vs Fiero Store SI 1.72/1.42 valves.

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 09-28-2021).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post09-28-2021 02:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

[youtub]https...


YouTub is only for bathing videos.

You don't sound too pleased in the video!

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lou_dias
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Report this Post09-28-2021 03:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Doh! I will fix the tag.
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Notorio
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Report this Post09-28-2021 11:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NotorioSend a Private Message to NotorioEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Do the larger valves require new valve seats or did the shop machine the old ones??
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lou_dias
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Report this Post09-29-2021 07:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ah crap, I had actually had them done last year but everything has been delayed. I wanna say they were machined but I honestly can't remember.
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Spadesluck
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Report this Post09-29-2021 10:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpadesluckSend a Private Message to SpadesluckEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sucks, take them back and get it done properly or get some money back?
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lou_dias
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Report this Post10-01-2021 03:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Spadesluck:

Sucks, take them back and get it done properly or get some money back?


Not worth it. I am having the engine machine shop clean up the old heads and see how much work it is to transfer over the new vavles+springs, etc...
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Blacktree
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Report this Post10-02-2021 04:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment. Have you flow tested the heads? You can't tell how much a head will flow, just by looking at it. Bigger isn't always better. If it was that easy to determine the performance potential of a head, we wouldn't need flow benches.

That said, the port job does look amateurish. Also, the inconsistent port sizes don't inspire confidence.
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lou_dias
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Report this Post10-03-2021 05:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment. Have you flow tested the heads? You can't tell how much a head will flow, just by looking at it. Bigger isn't always better. If it was that easy to determine the performance potential of a head, we wouldn't need flow benches.

That said, the port job does look amateurish. Also, the inconsistent port sizes don't inspire confidence.

Not worth it on the 'new' heads and ...
Because flow #'s don't mean anything to me. Water doesn't compress and it doesn't like changing direction. Air don't care. Yes - you can hashtag that: #airdontcare

My heads are proven performers. I don't need to prove them to anyone else. I post my dyno results. No theory there. Just results. You can watch my last 6 years of racing to see what they've done against arguably the toughest oval track around. Been getting crazy exotics there lately as well and they all get smoked. Most recently a Viper... This year the track has gotten drivers to come up from NY, NJ, NH and Maine. Our local/regular guys beat them all. Now one of our top competitors is gonna try to make an appearance at the Freedom Factory's 'spectaor drags'.

My dyno results themselves are stunted because I don't put on street wheels/tires on to go to the dyno. I just leave my heavy 17x10s on... So the 'real' #'s are higher but again, I don't care - I'm just making sure my a/f ratio is good with the occasional timing tweak. I share what I do because I believe information should be shared... I built upon the 3.4 modders before me just like I perhaps inspired La Fiera to go even farther.

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 10-03-2021).]

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Will
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Report this Post10-04-2021 07:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

Not worth it on the 'new' heads and ...
Because flow #'s don't mean anything to me. Water doesn't compress and it doesn't like changing direction. Air don't care. Yes - you can hashtag that: #airdontcare



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressible_flow

 
quote
flows are usually treated as being incompressible when the Mach number (the ratio of the speed of the flow to the speed of sound) is smaller than 0.3 (since the density change due to velocity is about 5% in that case).

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lou_dias
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Report this Post10-04-2021 08:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sure Will, now tell me how that relates to my engine...and the price of tea in China.
Tell me what's faster - the wind or the river flow. Which can change direction in an instant?
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Report this Post10-06-2021 06:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

Sure Will, now tell me how that relates to my engine...and the price of tea in China.
Tell me what's faster - the wind or the river flow. Which can change direction in an instant?


#airdoescare
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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post10-06-2021 06:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Do you do anything special to get the heads to seal to the exhaust pipe flanges?

There's not much area for a gasket.
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lou_dias
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Report this Post10-06-2021 09:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

Do you do anything special to get the heads to seal to the exhaust pipe flanges?

There's not much area for a gasket.

I use VW gaskets... They are individual per port. The come in various diameters and the bolt holes match. Though last time I used the gaskets that came with the cheap but good looking 3.4 headers I bought from Summit Racing.
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Report this Post10-07-2021 02:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87_specialClick Here to Email 87_specialSend a Private Message to 87_specialEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Lou,

It's probably more cost effective to clean up the irregular ports with a carbide and a few drum rolls than to swap everything over. You also have the chance to tailor the port job to your liking. They are already set up with those valves. Machining for the bigger valves or cutting the seats out and replacing with larger seats is labor intensive and may cost more quite a bit on top of what you've already got into the other heads. Guides may also be worn on the "big port" heads and would require new guides to get a precision valve job. The cost could easily spiral out of control. Just saying...

-Joe
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lou_dias
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Report this Post10-07-2021 05:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Good points but ...
The cost to get the other heads ported up to snuff would probably be just as large.
The only way I win is by spending money.

The guy who ported my good heads hates porting iron heads. So much so that he didn't want to port the 'new' heads so that's why I went with someone else.
Nothing about V6 heads just the material itself. It's more time consuming. Aluminum porting is much easier.

No matter what I do its $$$.
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