Hi folks, I hope you are all staying safe? I’m still working through my barn find 86 GT. After the head gaskets nightmare the car is back together. I am still having issues with it by now I was hoping it would be running good enough so I can move on to the good stuff of restoring it. The car still idles very high 2500rpm if the gauge is to be believed And when it is put into gear it dies unless you put your foot on the accelerator and brake pedal. When I moved it off the drive tempting fate I tried to drive it There was zero power and the car could merely creep Now what I’ve replaced to date ...distributor ( it was missing when I bought it ) leads plugs and coil and associated looms. Replaced earth wire and positive cable unbolted and cleaned block connectors by the battery. Fuel pump ( original one was gunged up ). Fuel filter as well as all other service items. Water pump ( what a pain in the arse ) vac lines checked and egr pipe replaced. Idle vale removed and cleaned ditto throttle body ( water pipes removed to aide access and given cleaner look ) throttle pot checked, timing checked, TCC disconnected ( for now ). The cat is removed ( not required on a car in the UK for this year ) last but not least head gaskets and associated gaskets replaced. Any thoughts . ( I have a 88 scrap GT to swap parts ) I was thinking perhaps the ecu May have fault ?
The car still idles very high 2500rpm if the gauge is to be believed...
Well, 900 rpm should sound considerably different than 2500. You've obviously got a huge vacuum leak. Make sure the relatively large tube that plugs into the back of the TB is properly connected at both ends. It supplies air from the IAC valve. Of course, the IAC valve itself could be faulty. Hopefully the throttle-stop screw hasn't been messed with, as that is set at the factory and there's no need to alter it.
Put your finger over the IAC port at the front of the TB. The engine should stall (with the throttle closed).
Vacuum leaks will cause a high idle- one of the most likely areas for leaks is the "Flex" tube from the EGR to the intake...NEVER flex it- it WILL break and leak. You can look for leaks/damage, but you an also use carb cleaner- spray it around and when you hit the leak area the engine will change sound.
ditto throttle body ( water pipes removed to aide access and given cleaner look ) throttle pot checked, timing checked, TCC disconnected ( for now ). The cat is removed ( not required on a car in the UK for this year ) last but not least head gaskets and associated gaskets replaced. Any thoughts . ( I have a 88 scrap GT to swap parts ) I was thinking perhaps the ecu May have fault ?
Gary, are you sure those were water pipes? May be an idea to reconnect them until you get it running right.
Also, did you skim the heads? No idea about the Fiero V6, but I know some V motors can then leak at the inlet manifolds unless double gaskets are fitted.
If it were me I'd let it run until hot, then chase along/round all the joints with a water sprayer/plant spray. Soon as you find the leak the engine note will change and you'll get a little steam out the exhaust. Most folk will tell you use WD-40/TT etc ,other brands of penetrating fluid/maintenace spray are available. The problem with some of those is the waxy residue left behind, though they do give more smoke. Water just evaporates.
Hi Iain, The heads were tested and cleaned up while they were off. I had my mate who has been a Ford Mechanic put it back together whilst I was recuperating after an accident. Yep the pipes to the throttle housing are merely there to flow hot water around to prevent throttle flap freezing. As this Fiero won’t be a daily driver I removed them ( as quite a few have on the forum ) The access to the distributor is fantastic now once out the way and it help access round by the stat housing once the two outlets are blocked off. The vac pipes aren’t causing the idle issue I’ve checked them and I’ve swapped items off the 88 to discount items (TPS MAP and egr solenoid ) I’ve even bridged the solenoid wires to by pass the egr system with no difference. I’m missing something electrical somewhere.....possibly the ECU.
Cheers Iain, Unfortunately a sudden family berevement has put everything up in the air. I’m in Hartshill in North Warwickshire..... so it’s a jaunt to Airdrie plus old Nicola Sturgeon would have me shot trying to enter Scotland at the moment......
Sorry, only looked at your address on my phone, missed the 's', there's a Harthill just along the road from Airdrie. Warwickshire is indeed a bit of a jaunt from the Republic of Sturgeon.
Long time due to family issues and also getting COVID-19...... not nice. Anyway sun was out in the U.K today and I managed to get my mechanic mate around for an hour or so. Right he checked the timing and that was OK. But he noted the following: No bang on cylinders 2,3,4...He thinks it maybe the injectors and suggested trying the ones in my 88 scrap one first. He also noted the idle speed was high and to him it was drawing too much around the throttle housing. He covered the hole in the housing and it still continued to run. He checked and the idle has not been drilled. Thoughts .
No bang on cylinders 2,3,4...He thinks it maybe the injectors...
There are two fuses for injectors, one fuse for a a bank of three injectors. Make sure they're both good.
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Originally posted by Bruschi54:
He also noted the idle speed was high and to him it was drawing too much around the throttle housing. He covered the hole in the housing and it still continued to run. He checked and the idle has not been drilled.
I assume you're referring to the IAC port inside the front of the throttle body. If the engine doesn't stall with this port covered (and the idle stop screw hasn't been messed with), then as suspected, you've got a vacuum leak which is causing the high idle.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 02-27-2021).]
Yeah, the fuses are ok as the cylinders that aren’t firing are on both of the fuses. I’ve got take the plenum chamber of again so I’ll check that I did not crack the egr pipe when I replaced it last time. Check the torque settings for everything whilst that’s off and swap over the fuel rail and injectors from my donor Fiero
Hi Patrick, I haven’t fixed it........ I’ve thrown in towel and I’ve put both up for sale. Over twelve months of time effort and cash and no fun I’ve decided to cut my losses .
Well I did not think I would be back on here. But, after trying to sell my Fiero,s on EBay UK and having pointless questions and then not being to even sell them to US car breakers here in the UK OR even scrap metal collectors. I tired to get the 86 going again...... I have even tried to get mobile mechanics to come round and all have shyed away from it You think I wanted it looked at for nothing !
So I bought some new injectors and fitted those rest the timing checked for vac leaks the list goes on... started it and it ran ok for three minutes then just cut out.... I’ve got it started again but it’s a rough and jar of nails........
Can someone please offer me some advice or allow me to send a video of it the way it’s running ?
I’m fed up to the back teeth with it all now....... I have worked on cars and enjoyed doing them....this were supposed to help me with my ptsd but it’s sending down the drain.....
Did you find and fix the vacuum leak indicated Here?
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Originally posted by Bruschi54:
...timing checked
While the jumper was installed? And have you double-checked that the outer ring of the harmonic balancer (where the timing marks are located) hasn't spun on the hub? 0° needs to be indicated when cylinder #1 is actually at TDC.
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Originally posted by Bruschi54:
Can someone please offer me some advice or allow me to send a video of it the way it’s running ?
The easiest way to share a video is to upload it to YouTube and then link to it here.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-15-2021).]
Yeah, I checked and double checked the vacuum lines especially when changing the injectors for the second time.
The timing was done by removing no one plug putting a screwdriver in the hole and turning it TDC. I checked the marks on the balancer and they lined up. Set it to 0degs and adjusted the dizzy accordingly to no 1.
Due to my job and other reasons I don’t use any social media platforms wether it be YouTube Facebook Tik Tok or whatever people are using...
The timing was done by removing no one plug putting a screwdriver in the hole and turning it TDC. I checked the marks on the balancer and they lined up. Set it to 0degs and adjusted the dizzy accordingly to no 1.
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Sounds like you checked the harmonic balancer but did you set the timing to 10-degrees BTDC? If so, did you remember to use a jumper on the ALDI port to take the ECM out of the equation?
Also, definitely check your fuel pressure if you haven't done it already. Check the archives for the process.
Hi Mike, Set it to 0 degs first bridged the port got the car running then set the timing by listening. I got the balance where the engine was smooth and idle was acceptable. So did not go to the extent of getting the timing light out. Like I said it ran wonderful for three minutes I almost cried..... Then it cut out I then I did cry..... It was like Fawlty Towers ( if you lot have heard of it) when he beat his Austin 1300 with a branch....
Bruschi, Get out the timing light. Bridge the port and set the timing on cylinder 1 to 10 degrees BTDC. Next, check the timing on cylinder 4. It should be the same or client to it. If it's not, move the distributor setting until the two are the same. The final setting may not be 10-degrees but it should be reasonably close.
Kinda sounds like a fuel issue? I don't recall that you have check fuel pressure at the fuel rail. Turn the key on and trigger the pump but don't start. You should see around 40-45 psi. Now start the car. You should see 35-37 psi at idle. When you turn the car off the pressure should drop slowly over a couple of hours. If you don't see these figures, check the fuel pump and fuel pump relay.
Bruschi54, I just read all the posts from start to finish so I'll add my 2 cents since I had the same problem a long time ago. I;ll skip over all the things that others suggested that I tried, so here's my story. 86 SE 4 Spd. 55 to 60k miles developed high idle at a steady 2500 rpm. This would occur after letting off the gas. The corrugated and fabric covered EGR tube had a crack in it and the tube appeared to be brand new from previous owner. Plan "A": I replaced the tube and it made no difference so I checked the EGR Valve. Manually operating the EGR with a vacuum pump revealed no problem however that's not the way they work. The EGR solenoid and ECM control that function and even if that was working correctly there's no guaranty that the poppet in the EGR valve was hitting the seat everytime so to cut thru the chase I disconnected the new EGR tube at the intake manifold and made a modified gasket out of a lid from a tin can. I only made 2 holes in it for the screws and this would prevent any EGR gas from entering the intake manifold and the ECM's of that era were clueless. There was no change but at least this possibility was eliminated.
Plan "B": Next thought was a leaky CSI cold start injector. This could cause excess fuel to enter the intake so I removed the the CSI tube from the fuel rail and plugged it off. There was no change.
Plan "C": What else could cause a rich condition.... Faulty ATS air Temp Sensor in the air cleaner. I replaced it with a new one and the idle came down as I recall to around 900 rpm.
Plan "D": I read that a poor ground can cause high idle so I checked the grounds and added a few more just in case. 1: Added a 1" wide braided ground from the engine block to the body near the trunk hinge box. 2: Added additional braided ground from engine block to car frame. 3: Extended the pigtail ground off the negative battery cable to a better location on the body near the C500 area and secured it with a heavier bolt & nut instead of the sheet metal screw the factory used.
Idle has been on target ever since up until the did the 3800sc swap. If I were you I would start off with some inexpensive grounding procedures.
Spoon
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
Mike, Spoon, Thank you for the advice. I have checked the fuel pressure and that seems to be on the range suggested. I ve started putting some new earths on as that is the only thing I have not done so far. I had a bit of a wobble at work so I’ll be off for a bit. So I’ll potter on the car tomorrow and put an update tomorrow. Thanks again to everyone who is posting suggestions.
Well I put on three new earths this morning and checked the timing again reset it to 10degs .......checked all vac lines again bridged the connector. Turned the key it started again and ran for a minute and cut out and would not start again.....
Bruschi, It sounds like a fuel problem to me but I'm no expert. Try using starting fluid to keep the car running after it starts. Squirt some in the throttle body. If it keeps running or tries to, I'd start looking at the fuel system (pump & lines). You may have to drop the tank to see what's happening with the internal rubber fuel lines.
Just to confirm I checked the fuel pressure by powering the pump from the acdl port and it is showing 45psi. Is that enough? Also I found a terminal in the dizzy module bent up. I’ve swapped it for another and got the same non start situation. I then disconnected the cold start injector with the same result. However when I connected the continuous positive supply through fuel port the car ran and idled dead on 1000 rpm no misfire. However, shortly it cuts out I’m guessing over fuelling.... Would I damaged or worn out fuel pressure regulator be the culprit of the issues .
Fuel or ignition. Seems like fueling has been throughly vetted.
Had a friend with a problem on his 88 V6. Engine would run for 10 minutes then shut off (like key off) It turned out to be the pickup coil in the distributor. Once replaced, never had the problem again.
Gary, are you sure those were water pipes? May be an idea to reconnect them until you get it running right.
Also, did you skim the heads? No idea about the Fiero V6, but I know some V motors can then leak at the inlet manifolds unless double gaskets are fitted.
iain
Those are water pipes going to the throttle body. They are coolant lines coming from the thermostat housing. Their function is to warm the throttle body to prevent winter icing. They do not enter the intake air stream in any way. They cannot cause a high idle unless there is corrosion in the throttle body that has eaten through, but then there would be coolant spraying into the intake.
Nothing has worked, I put both on EBay dirt cheap and they have been bought.
I’d like to thank everyone on this forum who has given me advice and tried to help. I think it was down to bad luck and not being able to really help over here in the UK.
Everyone stay safe and all the best for the future
What was the result?
