86 fiero 2.5l. First off I need to tell a brief story for everything to make sense. Got this car in a trade, he said it didn't run and what not. Coolant reservoir had some coolant and he said he changed the water pump, and I noticed put rtv around the water pump and housing where it mates to the block. He never filled the system again and I didn't know that. So I had used diesel fuel to un seize the engine, and added some oil in the spark plug hole to lubricate, turned the engine over without spark plugs to lubricate. Then I had to re time the engine since he put the distributor in wrong and wired plugs wrong, after all that, got it to run for 5 minutes idling at 3k rpms and drove it around the block, total run time of about 10-15 minutes. Well, there was no coolant and the engine shut off on me probably before any real damage could be done. Not sure if this is because of the drive or the kids doing, but as soon as I add coolant to the cap where the thermostat is, a few seconds later it starts running right out somewhere by the exhaust and water pump housing. It's not leaving from the pump. There are 2 hoses off tha back of the housing are tight and not leaking there either. I haven't been able to get it completely off yet but I was wondering what is all around there it could be leaking from? He used a blue rtv sealer for gasket material, I was thinking of getting the actual gaskets for them if I have to pull them. What's back there that the thermostat runs right to?
I am chasing my own coolant leak right now. Not fun. No way to know where the leak is coming from, until you get under the car and look and even then you may have a hard time seeing with coolant dripping in your face. Though I agree, if you drove 10+ minutes with no coolant, serious damage was probably done. ( I am guessing this car doesn't have a working temp gauge??)
I am chasing my own coolant leak right now. Not fun. No way to know where the leak is coming from, until you get under the car and look and even then you may have a hard time seeing with coolant dripping in your face. Though I agree, if you drove 10+ minutes with no coolant, serious damage was probably done.
Agreed. I can't see how anyone would run a "strange" engine without making sure there's oil and coolant in it first. If engine "shut off on it's own" - it seized. You may have caused major damage (you can't push out freeze plug without coolant).
Sounds like a bad day. However damage may or not have been done. I'm sure some was but....I would find leak...repair as cheap as absolutely possible and see if I get lucky. It did most likely shut off due to too much friction. But I have done a heck of lot worse to motors and had no issues. I cooked the duke in my s10 I don't know how many times....it made it over 200,000 miles without replacing the head, gasket or anything major. The duke is more durable than people make it out to be...lol
I can turn it over and it runs, yes I'm afraid the block may have cracked, there is fresh synthetic oil in it. It showed coolant in the reservoir and all and he didn't say it didn't have coolant when I mentioned it, almost as if he was hoping for me to ruin it...
I'm just hoping and praying it's just a gasket...I'll let you all know once I get the water pump housing out, and or exhaust manifold... Also the exhaust manifold is cracked, needs a new one and gasket, and egr system.
I'm just hoping and praying it's just a gasket...I'll let you all know once I get the water pump housing out, and or exhaust manifold... Also the exhaust manifold is cracked, needs a new one and gasket, and egr system.
If your really praying, try getting down on both knees and forget about the "Offering Plate" because your going to need the cash for the Fiero. Massive water leaks, cracked manifold, EGR bad, etc.
Hope it all works out for you. This forum has the answers you need. Sounds like you opened up a serious can of Gippsland earthworms.
Spoon
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
The water pump attaches to an adapter block, which in turn attaches to the cylinder head. And of course, the thermostat housing attaches to the other end of the cylinder head. So you're pouring coolant in one side of the head, and it's leaking out the other side. Or at least, that's what it sounds like. Maybe the previous owner didn't attach the adapter block to the cylinder head correctly. Or maybe he damaged it somehow. Considering some of the other stuff he did to the car, I wouldn't rule it out.
Best of luck!
[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 08-28-2015).]
I never owned a duke- but I know they are pretty durable...Find the leak- if it's not a head gasket, cracked head or block, get her filled up and try running her again.
I don't remember where I read this, but; A guy back in the fifties was driving his Chryco 300 across the desert- a freeze plug fell out- total coolant loss...There wasn't any place for miles, so he just continued driving until he reached a town....Pulled in to the gas station(Back when they were called "Service Stations- Mechanic on duty) and the engine was GLOWING! They let it cool down, then the mech put in a new freeze plug, filled her up and he was on his way....He stated that he drove it for a year after this with no problems before selling it.....You cannot do that with aluminum engines- hell, I had a hose with a short spring colapse on the freeway on my old 351 cleveland and found out that cleveland heads are notorious for cracking between the valves....Moral is, you may(or may not!) have damaged it...Fix what you can and test it.
That really stinks. Instead of taking apart right away what if you stick a hose in there and let it slowly run ... perhaps the leak will become apparent? Good luck
That really stinks. Instead of taking apart right away what if you stick a hose in there and let it slowly run ... perhaps the leak will become apparent? Good luck
Sounds like water runs out as he's adding it to the engine. He just can't see clearly enough to determine where it's coming from.
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Originally posted by FireStorm102389:
... as soon as I add coolant to the cap where the thermostat is, a few seconds later it starts running right out somewhere by the exhaust and water pump housing.
Ok, I ended up pulling the exhaust manifold that the guy before me broke, and pulled the water pump and housing, it had a bolt on bottom that was too long for the blind hole so it wasn't holding it on, and he had an rtv mess all over every seam, so I cleaned it up, took 1.5 hours, and put actually gaskets on it and remounted everything, started it up without leaks, then killed it and filled system, not sure how to bleed the system though but I think I got the air all out anyway.
Then I took the bad manifold off, O2 sensor was removed before running, got new bolts for everything and mounted the new exhaust gasket and manifold, inserted the O2 sensor and hooked it up and now I can't get it to start. Turns over and sometimes it ignores like it wants to start but it won't actually start. And the 2 times I managed to get it to finally run it died in like 5 seconds.
Should I disconnect the batter for a period of time and have that reset the computer maybe? Idk why it won't start. Checked plugs, made sure the gasket wasn't blocking off the holes in any way, if they happened to give me a wrong one some how, but that's not the case. I unplugged the O2 sensor, still nothing, took off the top of the throttle body to allow more air, still nothing, only thing I can think of is the egr system that's not in it, even though it ran before without it, or the computer needs to be reset?
Congratulations on finding and fixing that leak! Don't know what to suggest on the ignition but seems like you can crank it so you haven't seized up the motor. I think you have narrowly escaped a serious catastrophe
Agreed and very happy I avoided it. No coolant in the oil either, so head gasket is good yet too. I had a feeling it would be ok and I'm glad it is, now just to see why it won't start when it did before, and the only thing different is the new exhaust manifold and that I put the O2 sensor back in. Anyway, I'm going to see if it's the computer, I just unplugged the car 20 minutes ago and I'll be trying again in probably a half hour. Hopefully then if I did flood it, it's drained enough and the computer relearn a everything. I did have the battery plugged in the entire time between running without the O2 and trying to start it now. So we will see.
...now I can't get it to start. Turns over and sometimes it ignores like it wants to start but it won't actually start. And the 2 times I managed to get it to finally run it died in like 5 seconds.
I hate to be a killjoy, but are you sure there isn't coolant leaking into one or more of the cylinders?
I hate to be a killjoy, but are you sure there isn't coolant leaking into one or more of the cylinders?
I wouldn't think that would stop it from running, as long as it cranks over. (i.e., not hydrolocked.) Even if it were leaking some water into a cylinder, it still should stay running if it starts. Maybe it'll run like crap, but it should run.
Did you get the spark plug wires back on, in the proper order?
I wouldn't think that would stop it from running...
I agree, as long as that was all that might be going on with this engine. But if the ignition timing is also a bit off, and maybe the compression isn't the best, etc... it could all add up. We'll see.
well, everything but the egr is all set up correctly. I hooked up the battery again after it sat for quite some time unhooked and tried to start it with no luck. Any guesses?
Well, the timing is not completely perfect, although it is set as well as I can without a timing light. Should be good enough to start since it started before and I haven't messed with it. Beside I can't get it anymore precise without getting it started initially. What else is there? I'm quite sure no coolant is getting into the cylinders, even if that were the case I would assume it's getting filled up which would hydro lock or it's not filling up and should at least start. And since there is no coolant coming out of the exhaust or anything I'd assume it's not anywhere in between burning it or hydro locking.
I've taken out the spark plugs and checked, I didn't see any coolant or liquid pooling up in the cylinders. The only reason I figured it was getting flooded was because j could smell fuel pretty heavily. That's why I let it sit. I honestly don't understand why it's not starting, everything looks like it checks out. Spark, combustion, fuel, and air. Unless it's getting too much of one.
[This message has been edited by FireStorm102389 (edited 08-31-2015).]
I once had my distributor gear pin shear on my jetboat- Replaced the distributor, and, approaching the next weekend, tried to get it to start- It wouldn't stay running- Told my friends "No-go"....and went to bed- woke up at midnight, and thought, "I wonder if I made a mistake with the plug wires?" Went out in the garage, and checked- sure enough, had a couple of them crossed up- Set them back to right, and she fired right up (normally, I start it only with the garage open, but left it shut and just made sure it was running smooth- approx' 10 seconds)....Called my friends and we went the next day.....Moral- Anyone can make a mistake, double check your work, carefully, and don't trust your memory on things where a quick check in a manual will guarantee success......I know my memory sucks.....
[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 08-31-2015).]
Double checked everything, plugs look fouled out, they are a matte black color but not wet or any chunks of deposits, so it seems like I fouled them out probably when I ran it without the O2 sensor
You mentioned you got this car on a trade............I'm thinking in the long run..... your friend may have gotten the better deal, unless you enjoy working on cars.....then you got a great deal.
. .
------------------ Mark ' 85 2m6 3.4PR In the Great Northwest!
Has air, has gas, has spark, 2 of which were weak and I'll be replacing the wires that broke unless I can somehow check the head gasket between cylinders first. I'm assuming if I take out the spark plug to cylinder 2 and there is a leak between, I can rotate the crank to compression on 1 and then on 3 and listen to see if I can hear wheezing. Then take out cylinder 3 spark plug and listen for cylinder 4 on compression stroke. Would that work? Shouldn't I be able to hear the air flow from one to another?
Next step after that is to check fuel filter which I'll be doing eventually anyway. I'm kind of stumped if all else fails. Plugs are gapped at .045, everything but wires are good for ignition and timing, exhaust is good sensor is good, intake is fine although missing egr system, the coolant system is all good. Last time it ran I had it running for just a few minutes and turned it off. Later that same day I changed the exhaust manifold and then boom, nothing. Crank no start.
[This message has been edited by FireStorm102389 (edited 09-01-2015).]
In the absence of a timing light, at a minimum you need to pull out a couple of plugs with wires still attached and ground them against the block. Have someone try to start the car while you watch the plugs and see if they are sparking. This won't do anything to verify timing, but at least you can check the box that says Yep, I got spark.
...you need to pull out a couple of plugs with wires still attached and ground them against the block. Have someone try to start the car while you watch the plugs and see if they are sparking. This won't do anything to verify timing, but at least you can check the box that says Yep, I got spark.
A spark jumping .045" in atmospheric pressure means nothing. Yes, there may be spark... but is it strong enough to jump that same gap while under pressure?
Testing for spark outside of the combustion chamber needs to be done with a quarter inch (.25") gap.
Yeah I already checked to see the spark before and the gap was roughly a quarter inch or so, however that was before the wires broke and I only checked the one to verify it had spark at all. I checked for spark on all 4 this morning and the cylinder 1 and 2 looked like a good strong spark where as the 3 and 4 looked pretty week, but those had the bad wires. of it looks weak already in regular atmospheric pressure, then there is no doubt it won't be firing right or at all under pressure. I would think that even with 2 cylinders it would at least sound like it wants to start every once in a while.
Unfortunately I can't work on it every day since I have a baby to take care of and I work a lot of overtime, but I do what I can when I can hah
[This message has been edited by FireStorm102389 (edited 09-01-2015).]
Nah, I thought the exhaust was clogged first due to it running for a few minutes before I turned it off right before I changed it, so I loosened the exhaust and pulled it away from the motor and she still wouldn't even sound like it wanted to start. Plugs are all good and clean, no deposits and look as they should, has correct gap at .045 (heard that was a good gap better than the .06 to run with). Ps it wouldn't start with the gap at .06 so I put her at .045.
Maybe I'll get the wires tomorrow morning so I can rule those out. I'm starting to feel like id be better off throwing the 4.9 swap in there with the getrag 5 speed due to all the headaches with the stock setup.
[This message has been edited by FireStorm102389 (edited 09-01-2015).]
Just "rebuilt" the spark plug wires. Luckily they had enough wire to cut it back 3/4" and re crimp. Tried cranking, still nothing. In the morning I'll have to listen for wheezing when I manually turn over the engine to see if there is a leak between cylinders. If nothing else, I don't know what the hell else there could be. It ran before I changed the exhaust manifold, I don't see why it wouldn't now.
So with no coolant, it was probably reading normal.
