I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts. I'm not convinced either way.
Here's what I've read, and shared elsewhere:
"First, there is the possibility that members of the Trump administration are in on it — that the conspiracy actually now includes Attorney General Pam Bondi, who vowed to disclose everything Epstein related; FBI Director Kash Patel, who called for the release of the supposed Epstein list before entering office; FBI Deputy Director Dan Bongino, who as a radio and podcast host was strongly skeptical of the conventional narrative surrounding Epstein; Vice President JD Vance, who told a podcast host just weeks ago that the Epstein list would require release; and Trump himself, who advocated for that position during the campaign. To believe this, you’d have to believe that all of these people entered office and then promptly reversed themselves on Epstein because they want to cover for the most scandalous pedophile ring of all time. Few who posit this possibility are willing to state it clearly; instead they hide behind suggestion and vagary. But that is the position: that Epstein was a member or asset of an intelligence agency, for example, and that the Trump administration is now fully complicit in covering up the mass rape of children.
Then there’s the second possibility: that members of the Trump administration honestly believed that they would be able to unmask a hideous ring of pedophilic activity — and then examined the evidence and found it didn’t justify their suspicions. Frankly, I find this possibility far more plausible than the first possibility: I don’t believe that Bondi, Patel, Bongino, Vance and Trump are so evil that they would cover for a full-scale pedophile ring. I could be wrong. But I generally like to have actual evidence of a cover-up of this magnitude before accusing people of covering up mass child rape."
And this was offered by a friend of mine:
"He doesn't raise the third, most likely possibility. The powers-that-be have changed twice since Epstein was arrested, they've had plenty of time to sanitize or alter the information. This isn't even scratching on the videos the FBI confiscated from the New York home the FIRST time he was arrested and tried. It all stinks, like one of the three-letter-agencies set the whole thing up. And for the people out there denying that they would do such a thing, learn more history. Like this book - it'll make you sick."https://www.amazon.com/Devi...FZB93Y/ref=sr_1_1...
I haven't read the book, yet, but I will. But I have no trouble believing any d-baggery attributed to our government.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-13-2025).]
In that I don't trust the "Press" any longer and for sure don't believe much I read on the internet. I (like most folks) would like to know what evidence has been gathered and if anything, that has been reported to have happened actually been done and who supposedly did what.
Is there a list of "visitors" to Epstein's Private Island? Don't know. Is there a passenger list of those who flew to that island? I have serious doubts but who knows......... Have those kids who were allegedly taken advantage of made statements verifying anything. It does appear based on what I've read that Epstein was in big trouble over the alleged crimes on his island but who else? Yes, I'd like those files open to the public and let the chips fall where they may.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 07-26-2025).]
I want as much disclosure as they can make and I don't want to be lied to. Bondi has completely screwed up the release of material. Now she is trying to gaslight us into believing there is nothing there to begin with. If the answer is that they can't release the information because of national security, then fine, say that. Just don't lie to me. IMO Bondi needs to go. She is not in control of the DOJ. There are ongoing cases going against President Trump's agenda and she is oblivious to them.
This is a huge political liability. It is causing people to think that no matter who get elected, the Deep State ends up compromising them. This story has completely upstaged all of the positive economic news and the passing of the BBB.
Honestly I don't need to see the list but a judge and jury should be seeing parts of it already and if there is enough evidence start making some arrests. I say lets appoint Sheriff Grady Judd as special investigator and lets start putting people in jail.
I want as much disclosure as they can make and I don't want to be lied to. Bondi has completely screwed up the release of material. Now she is trying to gaslight us into believing there is nothing there to begin with. If the answer is that they can't release the information because of national security, then fine, say that. Just don't lie to me. IMO Bondi needs to go. She is not in control of the DOJ. There are ongoing cases going against President Trump's agenda and she is oblivious to them.
This is a huge political liability. It is causing people to think that no matter who get elected, the Deep State ends up compromising them. This story has completely upstaged all of the positive economic news and the passing of the BBB.
quote
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:
Honestly I don't need to see the list but a judge and jury should be seeing parts of it already and if there is enough evidence start making some arrests. I say lets appoint Sheriff Grady Judd as special investigator and lets start putting people in jail.
Pictures of billionaire with their pants down ? Get them at the Dollar Store's checkout display. ' Bill and Monica, Forn in the Oval Office ! ' DVD $10.99 Collect all 100 !
I have a feeling everyone has watched too much TV and thinks there is some little black book all nice and tidy that has all of these names, dates and acts in it. What I really expect is the majority of the "sketchy" documents will not hold up in court alone and we all know if you are going to take a shot at someone high and powerful you better not miss. So while I would love to see a book with a list of names and dates they visited the island to **** a child, I don't think it exist in that form.
I have been to Chucky Cheese but I'm not a kid, or ****ing one.
But I would love to start seeing more people behind bars, they have had more than enough time to put cases together. If they were going to the island you can bet it didn't stay on the island.
It's very very interesting how the creator/owner of Fox News now seems bound and determined to bring Trump down. Stay tuned!
When I see a judge issuing warrants I will believe it. Can't even call it news anymore, they are paid for whores and only exist if they can keep the money coming in.
This guy (Victor Davis Hanson) looks to be a rather old whore. lol But yeah... anything for a buck, I suppose.
There's a VDH thread, elsewhere in this section. I recently "discovered" him. He seems to be pretty intelligent. I tend to agree with a great deal that he says, but he seems to be a charter member of the Department of Redundancy Department. The channel where he is hosted usually posts ~20 minute videos. There's always a "click bait-ey" headline, a few minutes of new stuff, and then 10-15 minutes of rehash.
Small doses only.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-25-2025).]
...Biden's DOJ could have just released his name regarding the Epstein files.
Where's the fun in that? The way it's working out now, it's a groundswell of Republicans/MAGA supporters who've turned on Trump!
When endless promises are made to release the Epstein files during re-election festivities, and then when elected, state that there are "no files" to release (even after Trump-appointed Attorney General Pam Bondi said they were on her desk!)... there are bound to be consequences.
Originally posted by Patrick: Where's the fun in that? The way it's working out now, it's a groundswell of Republicans/MAGA supporters who've turned on Trump!
It's very very interesting how the creator/owner of Fox News now seems bound and determined to bring Trump down. Stay tuned!
The premise of his video, e.g., "Trump is in and all over the Epstein files," is kind of silly.
My intent is not to defend Trump here, though I guess that's happening regardless... but with the ridiculousness of the claim.
Trump has never been to Epstein island. Trump has only flown on Epstein's plane only a few times, and each time, he had his family with him (in most cases, his wife). Unless they are into some REALLY kinky stuff, I doubt anything inappropriate was happening on them. My guess is that, as these people are... he offered him free flights so he could have a captured audience to talk about business deals.
There are 1000s of people in there. I doubt seriously that 100s of under-aged girls were r@ped at least once by everyone in this book. Merely being in a contact list does not suggest you are guilty of a crime. Clearly, some people in that list have done bad things, we know. But if there was any way for the Democrats to have prevented Trump from running, not the first time, but the second time... they would have found it. If there was a girl out there who was under-aged and said she was raped by Trump... she would have already been out there, and we would have already talked about it.
Your wish for it to be true, does not negate the simple fact that Democrats would have quite literally done anything to prevent Trump from winning. If there was something there regarding Trump... I can absolutely assure you it would have already come out.
Originally posted by Patrick: ... Most of the world felt Trump was a low-life years ago. It's not as if any of this latest drama is any sort of revelation regarding Trump's character.
Nah. Most people didn't give a damn, one way or the other. He was just another celeb. Until he challenged the Hildabeest, then the torches and pitchforks came out. Edit - See https://www.fiero.nl/forum/...m12/HTML/001443.html
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-28-2025).]
I’m visiting my 93-year old mother. Her comments on this matter are if you lie down with dogs and you’re likely to get up with fleas.
QUOTE]Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: …Merely being in a contact list does not suggest you are guilty of a crime… UNQUOTE
Mama always told me you are known by the company you keep. It was good advice 60 years ago. It’s good advice now.
Yes, "You are the friends you keep." It's well known... most decent parents teach their kids this.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
Todd, you're in no position to "assure" me of anything.
Most of the world felt Trump was a low-life years ago. It's not as if any of this latest drama is any sort of revelation regarding Trump's character.
I'm just saying Patrick... I know you want it to be true. But the facts and reality simply don't line up with you're reasoning. IF there was any way to have eliminated Trump from being elected, the Democrats would have thought of it. There were multiple assassination attempts made on the guy. There were three states that made up completely ficticious charges to try to get him put in jail, or at least drag it on long enough in hopes it would hurt him. The DOJ tried to arrest him for something all Democrats with access to classified information have been doing for the past 50 years... though Trump was the only one who had a legitimate reason for it. His office was a SCIF, and he declassified all of it, which he can literally do with the wave of a hand.
Say what you will about Trump... but this conspiracy doesn't align.
Nah. Most people didn't give a damn (about Trump), one way or the other. He was just another celeb.
If you're referring to Trump in "The Apprentice"... no, I wasn't going back quite that far.
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
Until he challenged the Hildabeest, then the torches and pitchforks came out.
I was referring to Trump's first term in office. It became apparent at that time to people around the world that Trump was a loose cannon, surrounding himself with people that he hired and fired on a regular basis. Of course, he's now since doubled down in his second term... becoming more irrational day by day.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-29-2025).]
I’m visiting my 93-year old mother. Her comments on this matter are if you lie down with dogs and you’re likely to get up with fleas.
QUOTE]Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: …Merely being in a contact list does not suggest you are guilty of a crime… UNQUOTE
Mama always told me you are known by the company you keep. It was good advice 60 years ago. It’s good advice now.
I tend to agree with your mother but, having once broke with a longtime friend due to his choices, "habits" and behavior, I can appreciate one who makes the decision to not continue the association. DJT did (long ago) have some kind of relationship with the pedophile but, it's been reported he broke that off about 20 years ago. So, should he be condemned for that or congratulated. Up to this point, I've not learned of any credible evidence against DJT. Lots of unproven allegations and innuendos but, NADA. I've said previously, release the files and let the chips fall where they may. I think it would be interesting to see who all "Partied" with Epstein. TDS runs strong with some folks.
I tend to agree with your mother but, having once broke with a longtime friend due to his choices, "habits" and behavior, I can appreciate one who makes the decision to not continue the association. DJT did (long ago) have some kind of relationship with the pedophile but, it's been reported he broke that off about 20 years ago. So, should he be condemned for that or congratulated. Up to this point, I've not learned of any credible evidence against DJT. Lots of unproven allegations and innuendos but, NADA. I've said previously, release the files and let the chips fall where they may. I think it would be interesting to see who all "Partied" with Epstein. TDS runs strong with some folks.
Rams
I think if would be interesting, too, if the files were released but as Queen Gertrude said in HAMLET, “The lady (or man?) doth protest too much, methinks.”
If Don wants this to go away, why not open all the files? As he said, Epstein is dead. Ghillane Maxwell is in prison for a long time. Who is to be harmed, Prince Andrew?
The fact that an assistant A-G is going to talk personally to her raises questions with a lot of people. I doubt that has ever happened before. A US Attorney for sure but an assistant A-G? This alone would give folks reason to wonder.
I think if would be interesting, too, if the files were released but as Queen Gertrude said in HAMLET, “The lady (or man?) doth protest too much, methinks.”
If Don wants this to go away, why not open all the files? As he said, Epstein is dead. Ghillane Maxwell is in prison for a long time. Who is to be harmed, Prince Andrew?
The fact that an assistant A-G is going to talk personally to her raises questions with a lot of people. I doubt that has ever happened before. A US Attorney for sure but an assistant A-G? This alone would give folks reason to wonder.
A valid point about the assistant AG but, he is most likely among a small group of DOJ folks the President and AG Bondi trust. There is no debating anything about any unproven allegations or suspicions. Each person has their own perspective. I'm reminded of how the old DOJ filed charges against DJT in only very biased districts. Might be hard to get an impartial jury and apparently an impartial judge IMHO.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 07-30-2025).]
I was referring to Trump's first term in office. It became apparent at that time to people around the world that Trump was a loose cannon, surrounding himself with people that he hired and fired on a regular basis. Of course, he's now since doubled down in his second term... becoming more irrational day by day.
People didn't know how to take Trump, because he said what was on his mind. "Decorum" got kicked to the curb. If he didn't like you, you knew it. I said, back in 2016, that even though he was not a politician, if he surrounded himself with people who knew what they were doing, he'd be okay. But the people surrounding Trump were part of the problem. And the people from Obama's administration that he left in place were even worse. From day one, people that he thought (hoped?) he could trust did everything in their power to "kneecap" him. Not to mention Hillary and Obama and that cluster-fest. He didn't expect the Democrats to play as dirty as they did. And then he found out.
This time, he didn't make the same rookie mistake. He fired everybody, and put in people of his own choosing. (Jerome Powell - that numb-nuts is the one exception that comes to mind.) He's not taking chances. And - as I expected - he's even had it out with some of those people (for reference, see "Elon"). But he's getting stuff done. I don't agree with all of what he's doing, but by and large... yeah. Yeah I do.
Edit - Irrational? I've seen lots of irrational people , but I don't think that fits him. He might be unpredictable. He's certainly belligerent. But he's a hell of a poker player, and he's playing the long game. Of course, his critics don't want to see/believe that. Which will probably be to their detriment. For "irrational", see "Joe Biden".
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-30-2025).]
At age 82, I suspect Biden was/is suffering from dementia. And by the end of his second term (if completed), Trump will be 82+. Hmmm...
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
...and he's playing the long game.
Serious question... do you honestly believe Donald Trump will be around for the "long game"? Even if (that's a big IF) Donald Trump is mentally competent, he's not exactly a picture of physical health.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-30-2025).]
Originally posted by Patrick: At age 82, I suspect Biden was/is suffering from dementia. And by the end of his second term (if completed), Trump will be 82+. Hmmm...
Serious question... do you honestly believe Donald Trump will be around for the "long game"? Even if (that's a big IF) Donald Trump is mentally competent, he's not exactly a picture of physical health.
Biden absolutely had dementia throughout his entire presidency. It likely even started at the end of his 2nd VP term.
Trump most certainly does NOT have dementia. No one even remotely qualified has even suggested such a thing. It's just been a thing that some on the far left say to try to counteract the idea that Biden had it. Most on the far left still can't admit that Biden has dementia, even though it's pretty well understood by everyone at this point.
Trump is old, yes... but IF he doesn't make it all four years... it won't be because of cognitive decline. He seems pretty active for an old person, so quite honestly... I would be surprised if he didn't make this full term.
, but I don't think that fits him. 
