It's sitting on the bottom of the Black Sea. Russians munitions caught on fire damaging the ship, the crew evacuated and while it was being towed in, it sank.
Anyone wonder why those munitions caught fire. Coincidence? I think not.
Brief report, includes photo image of Neptune missile in flight.
Obviously, the Ukrainians want credit and the Russians won't admit it if, the Ukrainians were actually responsible. But, if I were a betting man............... Heard today that the entire Russian Black Sea fleet has backed up and moved further out to sea. Truth or not, it doesn't take a genius to come up with the reason.
I hesitate to call it wishful thinking, because when things blow up, no one can be sure where the embers will land. But, the "new world order" may not look the way some have planned.
We gave the bolsheviks a whole century and this is their legacy. It is past time to move on. Are you listening, children of the left?
[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 04-14-2022).]
I hesitate to call it wishful thinking, because when things blow up, no one can be sure where the embers will land. But, the "new world order" may not look the way some have planned.
We gave the bolsheviks a whole century and this is their legacy. It is past time to move on. Are you listening, children of the left?
Hard to say but, I'm thinking we should send Speaker Pelosi and Senator Schummer along with VP Harris over to investigate, call it a Peace Keeping Mission. I mean really, what could go wrong..........
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 04-14-2022).]
! Somehow, the big news isn't the bad news that the Moscow was sunk, it's about the zero evidence. Only satellite or drone imagery could provide it's position in the Black Sea, offshore Ukraine. Withholding that proof from the world seems sympathetic to Putin's forces. I next want to see a nuke sub pop up to get air, then surrender. Yeah. This war will escalate exponentially, and soon. Yikes ! Magneto Hydrodynamic Propulsion
Obviously, the Ukrainians want credit and the Russians won't admit it if, the Ukrainians were actually responsible. But, if I were a betting man............... Heard today that the entire Russian Black Sea fleet has backed up and moved further out to sea. Truth or not, it doesn't take a genius to come up with the reason.
Rams
Having served on both a carrier as well as destroyers, I quickly learned that one of the major consequences of a missile hit (other than the obvious warhead explosion) is fire from the contents of the ship (furnishings, fuel, supplies. etc.). The remaining missile fuel often ignites the ships combustible contents after the strike and the resulting fire can do as much or more damage that the warhead explosion.
Having served on both a carrier as well as destroyers, I quickly learned that one of the major consequences of a missile hit (other than the obvious warhead explosion) is fire from the contents of the ship (furnishings, fuel, supplies. etc.). The remaining missile fuel often ignites the ships combustible contents after the strike and the resulting fire can do as much or more damage that the warhead explosion.
Nelson
Of this, I have no doubt. I view naval vessels as floating fuel and ammo dumps.
Long article here, with speculation that two nuclear warheads may have been aboard the sunken warship. And a lot of other "edgy" speculations or ideas about the fate of the warship's crew and officers, and other officers in the Russian navy's chain of command. I wouldn't "run with this" myself, if I were anchoring one of those cable TV news shows. But I offer this for those among us who like these kinds of reports.
"Russia's 'broken arrow': Fears that NUCLEAR MISSILES sank with Putin's flagship Moskva amid claims that 452 of the 510 crew have drowned and top admiral has been arrested after cruiser was 'hit by Ukrainian missile'"
And here's another report, one day later, from the Daily Mail. Looking kind of "tabloid" to me, this Daily Mail.
"Doomed Moskva Russia warship is 'seen burning in satellite image' after Ukraine missile strike 'killed ALL 510 aboard' Putin's Black Sea flagship" Jack Wright and Chris Jewers for the Daily Mail; April 16, 2022. https://www.dailymail.co.uk...satellite-image.html
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 04-16-2022).]
Uh, you do realize that's a video simulation and the ship was 30 miles off the coast, right?
The problem with simulations is, rarely do they get much right. As I remember, the attack occurred around 0100 hours local. Unless things are different in Ukraine than in the rest of the world at that latitude, it's pretty dark around 1 AM.
While the Russians have not admitted the reason for the explosion on the Moscow, I personally believe the Ukrainians scored a HIT.
The sinking of the Moscow was an eye opener to the Russians, no doubt but, it should be a wake up call to the Navies of NATO also.
How good do air defense systems have to be to defeat incoming missiles? Not being a Navy dude, I don't have a clue and what I did know about ADA is ancient history now. Putting it as succinctly as I know how, if it can be done to the Russian Flag Ship, it can be done to our own carriers. Our carrier Fleet is where we put most of our efforts in showing the flag. Yeah, there's still those submarine things with total destruction of life powers but, they don't show the flag all that much. At least, they aren't supposed to.
! So, we use a fast hydrofoil kamikaze to puncture the hull midships, 240 kph at night, 1000 kg of Semtex, below the waterline. How many can you build ? Graphite ? ok
"U.S. [battlefield intelligence] helped Ukraine sink Russian flagship Moskva, [U.S.] officials say" Ken Dilanian, Courtney Kube and Carol E. Lee for NBC News; May 5, 2022. https://www.nbcnews.com/pol...icials-say-rcna27559
Duh! I don't know why these unnamed U.S. officials are finally admitting it now.
I thought the idea of the Biden administration's Task Force KleptoCapture was to seize the Russian oligarchs' yachts as forfeited assets—not sink them. They're not going to get much from this "Moskva" and most of it would have to go to the salvage operators.
"U.S. [battlefield intelligence] helped Ukraine sink Russian flagship Moskva, [U.S.] officials say" Ken Dilanian, Courtney Kube and Carol E. Lee for NBC News; May 5, 2022. https://www.nbcnews.com/pol...icials-say-rcna27559
Duh! I don't know why these unnamed U.S. officials are finally admitting it now.
I thought the idea of the Biden administration's Task Force KleptoCapture was to seize the Russian oligarchs' yachts as forfeited assets—not sink them. They're not going to get much from this "Moskva" and most of it would have to go to the salvage operators.
Duh! I don't know why these unnamed U.S. officials are finally admitting it now.
You don't know why because, like most all Leftists, you don't know anything about the military.
You don't know why because you don't know that the Russian Black Sea Fleet, (Chernomorsky flot), is right now bottled up in it's port at Sevastapol with torpedo nets around their ships and a massive amount of AAA guarding them and we would like to keep them there.
You don't know why because, knowing nothing about the military, you don't know anything about the value of the tactical or strategic release of intelligence information to an adversary, and knowing nothing about those things you are unaware of and unable to correlate the simultaneous strategic media release of intel that the U.S. also helped Ukraine with ground targeting data that enabled them to hit and kill at least a dozen Russian generals since the war began.
None of the many, many things that you don't know about the military, its weapons or strategy and tactics will stop you from now cutting and pasting endless trivial and irrelevant "Leftist book reports" in this thread....
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:
"Prove me wrong"
That effortless task was accomplished a long time ago and remains done.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-05-2022).]
...you don't know anything about the value of the tactical or strategic release of intelligence information to an adversary, and knowing nothing about those things you are unaware of and unable to correlate the simultaneous strategic media release of intel that the U.S. also helped Ukraine with ground targeting data that enabled them to hit and kill at least a dozen Russian generals since the war began.
If I was Willie, I'd be a little ticked off being talked down to like that.
This is Reply message #36 on this thread. Reply-35 (to improvise some referential notation) is from Patrick, and if it were not for my having read Reply-35, from Patrick, where Patrick quotes a sentence from Reply-34, I would not have any conscious awareness of anything that was said in Reply-34, which is from the "randye" account. I had been careful to scroll over or scroll beyond Reply-34 in such a way that I would not be aware of anything that was part of Reply-34, other than it's provenance from the "randye" account.
Reply-33 is from "williegoat", and in considering whether there is a logical and thoughtful response to Reply-33 from "williegoat" and Reply-35 from Patrick—but not Reply-34, from the "randye" account, which is not part of my observable universe, so to speak—I have this:
Taking advantage of the modern technological marvel of "Copy and Paste", I offer the beginning and the end of this Op(-)Ed or Opinion and Editorial-style column from Thomas L. Friedman; to wit:
THE BEGINNING
quote
Growing up in Minnesota, I was a huge fan of the local N.H.L. team at the time, the North Stars, and they had a sportscaster, Al Shaver, who gave me my first lesson in politics and military strategy. He ended his shows with this sign-off: “When you lose, say little. When you win, say less. Goodnight and good sports.”
President Biden and his team would do well to embrace Shaver’s wisdom.
THE END
quote
In foreign affairs, success breeds authority and credibility, and credibility and authority breed more success. Just restoring Ukraine’s sovereignty, and frustrating Putin’s military there, would be a huge achievement with lasting dividends. Al Shaver knew what he was talking about: When you lose, say little. When you win, say less. Everyone can see the score.
I leave you (whoever you might be) to ponder the question of whether you have been well-served by your decision to read this message, which as I said at the outset, is Reply-36. Assuming that you did decide to read this message.
The world now waits upon the possibility of Reply-37.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-06-2022).]
“I am confident [that] I never sent nor received any information [using my private email server] that was classified at the time it was sent and received,”
This is not a war or an invasion. It's a special military operation to de-Nazify Ukraine.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-06-2022).]
^^^
