What are some of the core Tea Party beliefs? I'm sure many people disagree and will want to mock or poke fun. This post intended only to tell you what we believe.

What We Believe, Part 1: Small Government and Free Enterprise.


What We Believe, Part 2: The Problem with Elitism


What We Believe, Part 3: Wealth Creation


What We Believe, Part 4: Natural Law


What We Believe, Part 5: Gun Rights


What We Believe, Part 6: Immigration


What We Believe, Part 7: American Exceptionalism


If you really want to know what the Tea Party is about, watch the videos. If not, don't waste the bandwidth.

Thanks for posting F88 I will take some time tomorrow and watch the lot. I am very curious to see how I align with this
Nick

What you say:

quote Originally posted by Formula88: What are some of the core Tea Party beliefs? I'm sure many people disagree and will want to mock or poke fun. This post intended only to tell you what we believe.

What everybody else sees:




Who wants to join a club full of cranky old white men?

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Drive safely!

This is about Libertarian conservatism and what America has become. There are too many who give great speeches and wave the flag only to abandon us later on. There are good people both Democrat and Republican and the only way to know is by checking their voting record. I'd rather have a conservative Democrat than a RINO Republican. Just my opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watc...re=player_embedded#!

I'll watch them and I will give you an opinion afterwards. OK?

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: What you say: What everybody else sees: Who wants to join a club full of cranky old white men?

That's what YOU see.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id...ics-picture_stories/

If people disagree, that's fine by me. It's there for people who want to know. People who are only looking for an opportunity to attack, mock, or belittle will attack the messenger and ignore the message as they always have.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 05-30-2012).]

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Who wants to join a club full of cranky old white men?

These people do:



I'm sure they probably wont be voting "forward"

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: I'll watch them and I will give you an opinion afterwards. OK?

Feel free. I'm not trying to convince anyone. There's a lot of discussion about what the Tea Party is that IMO is based on inaccurate rhetoric. This is only to offer the Tea Party's view of what they stand for. I'm sure many will disagree.

Why is there so many Tea Party folks that make it about making abortion and gay marriage illegal and its about Jesus God & Country?

I would agree with a lot of the Tea Party platform, but the pesky social reformist conservatives that are embedded and hold many of the chapters of the Tea Party is all about social retrograde conservatism.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Why is there so many Tea Party folks that make it about making abortion and gay marriage illegal and its about Jesus God & Country? I would agree with a lot of the Tea Party platform, but the pesky social reformist conservatives that are embedded and hold many of the chapters of the Tea Party is all about social retrograde conservatism.

How many of them have you spoken to personally vs. how many of them do you hear about from the media or 2nd hand sources?
"So many" is relative.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: How many of them have you spoken to personally vs. how many of them do you hear about from the media or 2nd hand sources? "So many" is relative.

Tea Party is relative too.

Let me ask you then? Do what I say is true? If you claim to be a die hard Tea Party associate. Do you believe that abortion should be made illegal? Do you wish that Gay Marriage should be illegal? Do you wish they taught the Bible and Jesus in public schools?

Let me know?

This is what sums up my position on things (very roughly, of course):

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Tea Party is relative too. Let me ask you then? Do what I say is true? If you claim to be a die hard Tea Party associate. Do you believe that abortion should be made illegal? Do you wish that Gay Marriage should be illegal? Do you wish they taught the Bible and Jesus in public schools? Let me know?

I haven't claimed to be a "die hard Tea Party associate."
However, to answer your questions,
While I'm against abortion on a personal level, I am in favor of safe, legal abortions under the law. We don't need more back alley coat hanger abortions.

I voted against "Amendment 1" here in NC recently that defines marriage as a union between 1 man and 1 woman. I think a gay marriage ban today is the equivalent of interracial marriage in the 50's. I don't think everyone should be forced to like it, but I also don't think government should be defining it. It's a religious union and should be defined by a person's individual religion.

I don't think any religion should be taught as curriculum in any public school. Teaching about what various religions believe is fine, but not using the doctrine as a lesson plan. If you want a religious education, you should attend a religious school.

As for "Do what I say is true?" - I don't understand that.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Why is there so many Tea Party folks that make it about making abortion and gay marriage illegal and its about Jesus God & Country?

No, that's not the message. Think about it. Nobama never promised nor delivered gay marriage or abortion. When did the Tea Party become involved ?
Why did the unions co-opt the Occupy movement ? I think you suffer from ideological phobia.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Tea Party is relative too. Let me ask you then? Do what I say is true? If you claim to be a die hard Tea Party associate. Do you believe that abortion should be made illegal? Do you wish that Gay Marriage should be illegal? Do you wish they taught the Bible and Jesus in public schools? Let me know?

I think it's fair to say that there are some die-hard religious fanatics who have spoken out against abortion and same sex marriage, and they are probably the ones who seem to conveniently get the attention (because it satisfies the liberal agenda and vilifies the tea party) but if you consider that Ron Paul is really the father of the tea party, and his position is that *federal* government has no true authority over those issues, then that should actually be considered to be the "official" position of the party. I think by and large most tea party people are fiscally conservative, socially liberal. Granted, there are those who are inconsistent, and only adhere to the philosophies where it's convenient, but I think most most tea party folks are pretty consistent.

First , without even viewing the videos I have to point out that Natural Rights should be part one. It is the foundation of classical liberalism.

Secondly, That tshirt is what is wrong with the country.
let me translate:
Fiscally Republican = "I don't want to pay taxes"
Socially Democrat = "I want the gooberment to take care of me"
Sexually Liberal = "My desire to debauch is more important than anything else."
This is how you get a crippling debt and a general collapse of morality.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: If you claim to be a die hard Tea Party associate. Do you believe that abortion should be made illegal? Do you wish that Gay Marriage should be illegal? Do you wish they taught the Bible and Jesus in public schools? Let me know?

I won't tell you why I believe it should or shouldn't. Unless you answer my question.
If you believe in gay marriage, if you believe in abortion, do you believe in sex selective abortions ?

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: First , without even viewing the videos I have to point out that Natural Rights should be part one. It is the foundation of classical liberalism. Secondly, That tshirt is what is wrong with the country. let me translate: Fiscally Republican = "I don't want to pay taxes" Socially Democrat = "I want the gooberment to take care of me" Sexually Liberal = "My desire to debauch is more important than anything else." This is how you get a crippling debt and a general collapse of morality.

That's an interesting take, but I think it's a bit off the mark. Everyone I know who claims to be "socially liberal" isn't advocating for government handouts, they're advocating that people should be able to decide for themselves-for me anyway, I endorse the government not being involved in how we live our lives. Period. Your interpretation is in direct conflict with number one, you can't possibly have a fiscally conservative government that retains handouts, they can't possibly coexist. As for "sexually liberal", I think you're choosing to ignore the joke in order to try and make a point that is moot since it's a joke anyway.

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: Secondly, That tshirt is what is wrong with the country. let me translate: Fiscally Republican = "I don't want to pay taxes" Socially Democrat = "I want the gooberment to take care of me" Sexually Liberal = "My desire to debauch is more important than anything else." This is how you get a crippling debt and a general collapse of morality.

Well, there are always different interpretations:

Fiscally Republican = "Don't spend more than you take in"
Socially Democrat = "Provide a temporary basic safety net for all citizens that fall on hard times"
Sexually Liberal = "Everybody stay out of my bedroom (except the people I invite)"

quote Originally posted by cliffw: I won't tell you why I believe it should or shouldn't. Unless you answer my question. If you believe in gay marriage, if you believe in abortion, do you believe in sex selective abortions ?

I'm a man, so I cannot make that decision. But I see nothing wrong with sex selection abortion. I don't care what reasons a woman has for deciding on having an abortion. It's a medical privacy right of the individual and should never be made an illegal act.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: I'm a man, so I cannot make that decision. But I see nothing wrong with sex selection abortion. I don't care what reasons a woman has for deciding on having an abortion. It's a medical privacy right of the individual and should never be made an illegal act.

Fair enough. You answered my question, at least about abortion.
In answer to your question, ... (I am not a Tea Party member) yes, abortion should be illegal. Religious arguments aside, why is a man held responsible for a woman's choice to abort or not with no say if she does or not ?
Yes, gay marriage should be illegal. Marriage is a religious tradition. Why would gays want to be considered married ? Do they yearn religious values ?
No, I don't wish they would teach Jesus and the Bible in school. 'Cept as a counter view to what they preach.

If your good with gender selective abortions, I'd bet you would have no problem offing the mentally challenged or unproductive elderly.

Sorry Yellow.. in "Merica" you're a Reguthan.. or whatever Ray has dreamed up today to call any one R of Marx

"Fiscally Republican = "Don't spend more than you take in" (agree)
Socially Democrat = "Provide a temporary basic safety net for all citizens that fall on hard times" (agree, may differ on timeline of said support)
Sexually Liberal = "Everybody stay out of my bedroom (except the people I invite)" . This is the fun part.. TEA party types for the most part (except for those thrown up by the media) DON'T CARE. These social /gay/bully/racism issues are a distant second,.

Economy first.. Stable economy, lower debt.. Once the checkbook is more balanced then fine. spend on social justice issues.. "It's about the economy stupid"..

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: blah blah blah

What everyone smells when you post:

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Who wants to join a club full of cranky old white men?

Bigot, racist. Hope you wake up some day and see that old black, yellow, brown, red and white people all have the same "value". You may not like the "class" of people, but you bigot, you should not say you hate people for the color of skin.

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: Bigot, racist. Hope you wake up some day and see that old black, yellow, brown, red and white people all have the same "value". You may not like the "class" of people, but you bigot, you should not say you hate people for the color of skin.

The irony is, Neptune is a cranky old white man. Just another example of what an insufferable hypocrite he is.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Tea Party is relative too. Let me ask you then? Do what I say is true? If you claim to be a die hard Tea Party associate. Do you believe that abortion should be made illegal? Do you wish that Gay Marriage should be illegal? Do you wish they taught the Bible and Jesus in public schools? Let me know?

Yes, I think it's murder. Nothing to do with religion.
No, religious beliefs should not affect the laws of the country.
No, unless they are specifically talking about religions as a whole.

Have enough people disagreed with your theory for you to second guess it, yet?

The thing I've never understood about the abortion argument is, how can you have a law that says if someone murders a pregnant woman, they are charged with 2 counts of murder, but abortion is legal?

quote Originally posted by Formula88: The thing I've never understood about the abortion argument is, how can you have a law that says if someone murders a pregnant woman, they are charged with 2 counts of murder, but abortion is legal?

That is a very good question! Either one or the other...

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Fair enough. You answered my question, at least about abortion. In answer to your question, ... (I am not a Tea Party member) yes, abortion should be illegal. Religious arguments aside, why is a man held responsible for a woman's choice to abort or not with no say if she does or not ? Yes, gay marriage should be illegal. Marriage is a religious tradition. Why would gays want to be considered married ? Do they yearn religious values ? No, I don't wish they would teach Jesus and the Bible in school. 'Cept as a counter view to what they preach. If your good with gender selective abortions, I'd bet you would have no problem offing the mentally challenged or unproductive elderly.

Some of this makes absolutely no sense. I disagree with your position on abortion, and I've never known a man who held responsible for a woman's decision to abort.
As for gay marriage, you're kind of all over the place there, and don't really relate any kind of cogent argument. First you say it is a religious tradition, and then go on to say it should be illegal, so you're in favor of laws regulating religion and religious ceremonies? (where no one or no thing is harmed in the process) Then, what difference does it make why a same sex couple would want to be married? Are we requiring anyone else to fill out a qualification form as to why? regardless, there are a thousand reasons they may want to be married, including health benefits afforded spouses, or being legally considered "immediate family" in emergencies. But regardless, how is "why would they want to" even a valid argument? Then you make a comment about them "yearning for religious values". Seriously? Do you really think that just because people may be gay they don't desire the benefit of a religious or spiritual family? Keep in mind, not ALL churches are so elitist or judgmental as to ban or exclude gays.
I agree to a point about teaching a specific religion in schools. I think for the purposes of education schools should be able to teach the general principals of some of the major religions,
I'm not saying you're "wrong" for feeling or thinking the way you do, but I would suggest that if you are actually basing your beliefs on the arguments you listed, you might want to take a deeper look, because much of what you wrote just doesn't seem to be logical.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Well, there are always different interpretations: Fiscally Republican = "Don't spend more than you take in" Socially Democrat = "Provide a temporary basic safety net for all citizens that fall on hard times" Sexually Liberal = "Everybody stay out of my bedroom (except the people I invite)"

Good definitions.
Fiscally Republican - I agree 100%.

Socially Democrat - I disagree slightly. Both parties believe in the social safety net, but differ in what type and how long it should last. I think the Democrat social model tends to make the problem worse by making people dependent on the support rather than it being used to help them get back on their feet. It's also at odds with the Fiscally Republican side. How do you pay for the safety net? We spend more on just entitlements than the federal government gets in tax revenue. In other words, if you eliminated ALL of the government, military, libraries, parks, education - everything, we'd still be in a deficit every year just from the entitlement spending. So it becomes a balance between your desire to be fiscally responsible vs helping the less fortunate. You can't spend more than you take in forever.

Sexually Liberal - that's pretty much what I meant by Socially Liberal, but I include other aspects of personal life, privacy, religious and sexual freedom, etc.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Who wants to join a club full of cranky old white men?

Sorry, you were saying?

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: Who wants to join a club full of cranky old white men?

This is who i picture as the core of the party. ( Dana, for those that dont know )

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Yes, gay marriage should be illegal. Marriage is a religious tradition.

That's exactly why I am in favor of legal gay marriage. It is a religious tradition. Government shouldn't be regulating it, the religion should.

I think there should be 2 different unions - a government regulated Civil Union and a religious regulated Marriage.
Marriage should have *NO* benefits or status in government. What is considered a "traditional" marriage today would be a combination of Civil Union & Marriage.
People should be able to get a marriage w/o any government involvement - purely a religious union regulated by their religion.
They should also be able to get a CU to gain whatever spousal government benefits exist - independent of approval of any religion.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: That's exactly why I am in favor of legal gay marriage. It is a religious tradition. Government shouldn't be regulating it, the religion should.

They should honor the 'marriage' from any religion and apply the 'union' as a legal contract to cover such things as custody of children and property since that falls back under 'civil' rules. Other than that, they should stay out of it.

[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 05-31-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: That's exactly why I am in favor of legal gay marriage. It is a religious tradition. Government shouldn't be regulating it, the religion should. I think there should be 2 different unions - a government regulated Civil Union and a religious regulated Marriage. Marriage should have *NO* benefits or status in government. What is considered a "traditional" marriage today would be a combination of Civil Union & Marriage. People should be able to get a marriage w/o any government involvement - purely a religious union regulated by their religion. They should also be able to get a CU to gain whatever spousal government benefits exist - independent of approval of any religion.

That's how it is in Germany. There is a "standesamtliche Trauung" (civil union) and a "kirchliche Trauung" (religious marriage) and both are completely separate and independent from each other.

quote Originally posted by Taijiguy: I'm not saying you're "wrong" for feeling or thinking the way you do, but I would suggest that if you are actually basing your beliefs on the arguments you listed, you might want to take a deeper look, because much of what you wrote just doesn't seem to be logical.

I appreciate your opinions.

quote Originally posted by Taijiguy: I disagree with your position on abortion, and I've never known a man who held responsible for a woman's decision to abort.

Reading later over what I wrote, I did recognize what you say to be true. I should have corrected it. I kinda did a "drive by" post as I passed my computer, a rushed post.

quote Originally posted by Taijiguy: As for gay marriage, you're kind of all over the place there, and don't really relate any kind of cogent argument. First you say it is a religious tradition, and then go on to say it should be illegal, so you're in favor of laws regulating religion and religious ceremonies? (where no one or no thing is harmed in the process) Then, what difference does it make why a same sex couple would want to be married? Are we requiring anyone else to fill out a qualification form as to why? regardless, there are a thousand reasons they may want to be married, including health benefits afforded spouses, or being legally considered "immediate family" in emergencies. But regardless, how is "why would they want to" even a valid argument? Then you make a comment about them "yearning for religious values". Seriously? Do you really think that just because people may be gay they don't desire the benefit of a religious or spiritual family? Keep in mind, not ALL churches are so elitist or judgmental as to ban or exclude gays.

Abortion, I left my religious views out of my opinion as I did not feel they were needed. Gay marriage, it's harder to do but I will try. Marriage has deep rooted tradition. No, I am not in favor of government regulating religion/religious ceremonies. Government has already co-opted marriage such as people who get married do not even have to be religious if they get married by a judge. Still, marriage, government or church, shared the deep rooted tradition of being between a man and a woman. This tradition started as a purpose. To create families.
"Why would they want to get married (?)" was not an argument, it was a question. One that I know the answer to. They want to be considered normal. Fact is, they are an aberration and I say that with no insult implied. Why are they not just advocating for a civil union which affords them all the rights of married couples including man/woman couples who just live together ?
I also did not comment that they "do yearn for religious values". I asked if that might be why. I know of no churches which condone same sex marriage yet do realize that just because one calls themselves a church does not make them a church. Other religions have mosques, temples, synagogues, and perhaps the spaghetti bowl for those that worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster, . I know of no religion which condones same sex marriage. I do realize we have a few states which allow it but I can't think of another country which does, though I am ignorant about it.
My step sister is gay and has a life partner. Like divorce, she is on her third one. Whatever. I also have known other gay couples and gay individuals. I am not a homophobe but gays being married is no more necessary than it would be me to want to be considered black (or brown or aisian ...).