Well, this is my little rant on Para Ordnance. Back in the day they used to make a fairly nice weapon. So I disregarded the pokes and prods about the guns, kinda like the pokes and prods against the Fiero…

I said to myself, they can’t be that bad…Well let me tell you…

I’ve been in the market for a micro .45 for my CCW for some time now. Unfortunately the Kimbers and Springfields are about $1000+ for what I want and the Colt Agent had these cheesy trench sites that I just can’t stand. So I go to my local gun shop to check on some .223 ammo I have on B/O. Ed politely tells me that its not in yet but that he got a new gun in and he knew I was looking for a small 1911 style .45. He breaks out a Rock Island compact. Not a bad gun, great price but just not what I’m looking for. Now mind you I have 3 full size Rock Island .45’s and love them, I just thought the compact was a little too big…So he’s like “We were checking out this Para 3” .45 in the back when you came in. We only got one – wanna take a gander?” I’m like – hell yeah! So he brings it out – It was the Slim Hawg from Para Ordnance. Nice looking gun, feels real good in the hand. Has ambi safety which is a plus for me because I’m left handed and a red fiber front site. Nice gun. Half the cost of everything else I was looking at. So on a spur of the moment decision I bought her and brought my new baby home. I couldn’t wait to take her to the range! So once I got home I started to read up on the Para Slim Hawg…Hmmm, this is where the “Friends don’t let friends buy Para Ordnance saying kept coming up and the further I would dig the more issues I uncovered. The main issues that I saw about the Hawg was extractor problems. Para introduced a power extractor that was a weak design but some worked, some broke and if it did they replaced it with a HD extractor free of charge. So I’m like – “It can’t be as bad as I read on these forums!” So, with the little voice in my head saying – “Bring it back! You’ll be disappointed!” I decided to keep her and take her to the range on Saturday. I just couldn’t believe that a company could stay in business making such a poor product. So Saturday morning arrives and I have to go to work first thing for a quick trouble call with HP. We finally wrap that up and I’m at the range at 10:15 or so. We unload the assortment of weapons, one being my wife’s XD .40 sub compact with the PRP match trigger. Sweet shooting rig with that trigger BTW. So she takes off with the XD and I grab my new baby. Time to break you in I think to myself. So I load up a clip, hang a full size target at 15 yards, jam the clip in the gun and give her a squeeze. Bang – Center mast in the bulls eye! Bang – another bang another…I’m thinkin to myself – This is sooooo Sweet! First 7 rounds were all dead center in a 1.5 inch grouping. Great for a 3” barrel I thought. So I drop the clip and jam in the next one. I do some rapid fire to the head – 7 on the money! I’m stoked. So I call Renee over to show here the performance of this new gun. She’s impressed, grabs it and loads a clip. Squeezes off 7 in the groin. Ouch. LOL. So were 3 7 round clips in. No jams, shooting good. I’m happy….UNTIL….I load the next clip. Fire the first 6 shots – all is good. Until the last round. I go to pull the trigger and nothing happens. I look at the gun and the slide is about an inch back with the bullet about half way in the barrel. Suddenly all those posts I read hit me like a ton of bricks! Its true – Para went down the shitter…
I try to pull the slide back and it wont budge! The range master’s like. I know what I would do if it was mine. I tell him lets go for it cause its going back anyway and I didn’t like the idea of a live round being jammed up in it. So we place the front of the slide against the table and push – hard – harder…Finally it moves back and the round falls out. But it never returns back. WTF? So we try to push the slide forward…No can do…I finally force it forward and its jammed up and won’t go back. Barrel is loose so I’m not sure what happened to it. I was so disappointed. But I have to say that I did take out my frustrations on with the XD. Nothing like 5 clips of rapid fire to make you feel better…
So off to Centerfire Systems we go after work today to get my money back. Got to say that if your going to carry a weapon that you want to bank your life on – don’t buy a Para. It’s true – “Friends don’t let friends buy Para Ordinance.” I’m getting a Springfield 1911-a1 Micro this week.

Thanks for reading…Hope this helps a few of you avoid issues in the future…

Rob D.

I've never shot a Para Ordinance gun, but it seems your rush to judgement of one FTF, is only matched by your rush to purchase the gun without any research. Give it some time, I had some FTF's from my Rock Island 1911 the first time I shot it. It ended up being crappy ammo. (Tula) No flame here, so don't get defensive, but it is my honest observation.

Jim

do you know exactly went wrong with it?
many failures to feed are repairable.
what ammo were you using?

i agree you shouldn't have problems with a new gun, but if the price is right it might be worth fixing.

Guys, yes a failure to feed is normal in a new gun. My wifes new Sig P238 failed to feed a few times during the first mag run and was fine after that. The slide being seized up to the point that you can't move it by hand is not. Thats the condition its in currently, you can't move the slide on the gun anymore...

Sorry if I didn't make that point in my initial post...

Rob D.

[This message has been edited by chester (edited 05-29-2012).]

this one?
http://www.para-usa.com/new...uct_pistol.php?id=88
i have a llama minimax45 subcompact which initially had some feeding issues but they "buffed right out"
send me your para and i'll dispose of the Piece Of Scrap metal for you

[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 05-29-2012).]

Actually its this one...

http://www.para-usa.com/new...uct_pistol.php?id=61

And yes Para will fix it free but I didn't pay $600 for a handgun that needs mail in repairs after 28 rounds...

And like I said, this is not a feed issue, its a slide/frame issue.

LOL scrap metal is all it is right now.

quote Originally posted by lurker: this one? http://www.para-usa.com/new...uct_pistol.php?id=88 i have a llama minimax45 subcompact which initially had some feeding issues but they "buffed right out" send me your para and i'll dispose of the Piece Of Scrap metal for you

[This message has been edited by chester (edited 05-29-2012).]

So you 're saying.....
A hog in hand ain't worth a pig in your pocket??

[This message has been edited by revin (edited 05-29-2012).]

quote Originally posted by chester: Guys, yes a failure to feed is normal in a new gun. My wifes new Sig P238 failed to feed a few times during the first mag run and was fine after that. The slide being seized up to the point that you can't move it by hand is not. Thats the condition its in currently, you can't move the slide on the gun anymore... Sorry if I didn't make that point in my initial post... Rob D.

No, I think you made it clear, but from your description, I'm not totally sure how you removed the stuck round. Is it possible you damaged the gun by forcing the slide back? Just throwing out thoughts. This is the one thing I hate about buying guns, once you shoot it, it has to go back to the manufacturer. The place you bought it from can no longer help. Shipping back to the manufacturer is a big PITA as well as frustrating, while you wait on it to be returned.

Jim

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: No, I think you made it clear, but from your description, I'm not totally sure how you removed the stuck round. Is it possible you damaged the gun by forcing the slide back? Just throwing out thoughts. This is the one thing I hate about buying guns, once you shoot it, it has to go back to the manufacturer. The place you bought it from can no longer help. Shipping back to the manufacturer is a big PITA as well as frustrating, while you wait on it to be returned. Jim

Actually its going back where I bought it and I'm getting my cash back. I buy a lot of stuff from them so they take care of me. I'm going to let Ed force the slide off if he likes. To me its pretty much a done deal. Its gone and a Springfield will be in its place. Like this one... :-)

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/review/SAMicro3.htm

Rob D.

[This message has been edited by chester (edited 05-29-2012).]

Well, Para-Ordinance is a Canadian firearms company......

I don't mind buying Canadian beer and whiskey, but firearms, not so much.

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'04 Mazda RX8 Build Thread
'88 GT- 3800 Turbo 11.367@121.03mph (Sold and gone now)
GM Tuners

quote Originally posted by AkursedX: Well, Para-Ordinance is a Canadian firearms company...... I don't mind buying Canadian beer and whiskey, but firearms, not so much.

LOL yeah they used to be...I think they moved to South Carolina... Hmmmmmm, maybe thats it...LOL

Glad it has worked out for you.

Jim

pineville, nc

quote Originally posted by lurker: pineville, nc

Yeah you got it...

probably stamped on the frame, right front?

[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 05-29-2012).]

quote Originally posted by chester: Guys, yes a failure to feed is normal in a new gun. My wifes new Sig P238 failed to feed a few times during the first mag run and was fine after that. The slide being seized up to the point that you can't move it by hand is not. Thats the condition its in currently, you can't move the slide on the gun anymore... Sorry if I didn't make that point in my initial post... Rob D.

Unless one takes a hammer to it, there shouldn't be any way to that easily damage a slide/frame so that the slide can't be moved by hand afterwards. FTF?--ok--it happens, but not being able to clear it and use it afterwards? Nah--not for me.

Thanks for the thread.

quote from your description, I'm not totally sure how you removed the stuck round.

Jim--It's my understanding, the the round itself wasn't jammed 1/2 way in the chamber as it would be with bad, dirty, swollen ammo--the slide itself was stuck fast in the frame. They just used the table edge to hold the top front of the slide and pushed forward on the frame, which moved (finally) the slide rearward to the ejection point. The slide then never moved back forward, which (to me) tells me the slide was binding all along. IOW,
It's dead Jim.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-29-2012).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Jim--It's my understanding, the the round itself wasn't jammed 1/2 way in the chamber as it would be with bad, dirty, swollen ammo--the slide itself was stuck fast in the frame. They just used the table edge to hold the top front of the slide and pushed forward on the frame, which moved (finally) the slide rearward to the ejection point. The slide then never moved back forward, which (to me) tells me the slide was binding all along. IOW, It's dead Jim.

You are correct...

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: I've never shot a Para Ordinance gun, but it seems your rush to judgement of one FTF, is only matched by your rush to purchase the gun without any research. Give it some time, I had some FTF's from my Rock Island 1911 the first time I shot it. It ended up being crappy ammo. (Tula) No flame here, so don't get defensive, but it is my honest observation. Jim

Even if the gun was garbage, even the best makers have a bad one slip out every so often.

And ya, most of the time its either bad ammo, or the user.

I agree with this as well, which is why I said "It happens".

I've even had it happen on a freshly cleaned SKS which is generally known to eat anything (within reason) that you stick in it.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Even if the gun was garbage, even the best makers have a bad one slip out every so often. And ya, most of the time its either bad ammo, or the user.

Do a search on the net for the Slim Hawg and you'll see a few that had issues with them...
I did before I shot it and was amazed at the bad reviews. I couldn't believe it till I tried it myself. But then I had nothing to lose as I knew Ed would take it back if I had any issues with it. It was real disappointing as it was a nice feeling gun for the money but I guess you get what you pay for in this instance.
I do have to say that I have 3 Rock Island .45’s and run any ammo I can scrape up in them and I have never had any issues with any of them, period.
In the para I even used brass cased 230gr FMJ Aguila ammo. But like I said it wasn’t an ammo issue, at least not this time.
Also the opinion that Para has gone downhill since they moved is prevalent.
Regardless, is gone back...It’s a shame because I really liked it.
But on the flip side I think I'll enjoy a Springfield or Kimber even more...
I love the Kimber CPD II. Now if I can only get one at a reasonable price...LOL
We shall see. I'll post my replacement to the Hawg and its break-in later on this week...
Thanks for all the comments. This was just my experience with this particular gun. Take it for what you may… I’m not by any means new to guns. I’ve never had this happen in the past…

Rob D.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Jim--It's my understanding, the the round itself wasn't jammed 1/2 way in the chamber as it would be with bad, dirty, swollen ammo--the slide itself was stuck fast in the frame. They just used the table edge to hold the top front of the slide and pushed forward on the frame, which moved (finally) the slide rearward to the ejection point. The slide then never moved back forward, which (to me) tells me the slide was binding all along. IOW, It's dead Jim.

That was the part that was unclear to me. I realized the slide was stuck, but not why. I read it a couple of times and wasn't sure if the ammo jammed the slide or it was stuck on its own. He mentioned forcing the slide back by pressing it on a table, and I was thinking maybe that broke something, but wasn't totally sure. Like I said, if the shop let you return it, then it's a win, win.

Jim

Well,

This is what I decided to get. Like the all black and couldn't justify the added cost of the CPD.

Has meprolight sights...

I think I shall enjoy.

Range time on Saturday...



Rob D.

[This message has been edited by chester (edited 05-30-2012).]

Sweet! If you don't mind me asking, how much did you get it for. I think those go for about $800-$1,000 for the solid black ones.

Jim

Oh, you're gonna LIKE the Kimber!
A friend of mind has an Ultra Raptor and it's a little beast of a pistol.

quote Originally posted by jimbolaya: Sweet! If you don't mind me asking, how much did you get it for. I think those go for about $800-$1,000 for the solid black ones. Jim

Got it for $813 with the night sights. Only one they had @ kygunco. The funny part was when I went out there to pick it up, mind you this was my first time there, I walk in the door and see a beer fridge in front of me! Thats right! A gun shop that sells beer! Never have I seen that before! LMAO...

The ambi safety and second mag were extra but they had them both in stock which was nice. I also have some nice RAASCO red/grey applewood grips coming to finish her off.

Rob D.

[This message has been edited by chester (edited 05-31-2012).]

Sorry to hear about your bad luck. I purchased a para warthog hi cap and love it! mine is in stainless and its an accurate little flamethrower. By chance did you clean yours and lube it before initial firing? I was always told the first thing you do is clean and lube before the first round is put through it. I've put about 100 rounds through mine with no hiccups or failures.

not mine but same gun

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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK
12.3 is faster than a 13.2

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: Sorry to hear about your bad luck. I purchased a para warthog hi cap and love it! mine is in stainless and its an accurate little flamethrower. By chance did you clean yours and lube it before initial firing? I was always told the first thing you do is clean and lube before the first round is put through it. I've put about 100 rounds through mine with no hiccups or failures. not mine but same gun

I'm glad yours worked out. But you have the Warthog which if I'm not mistaken, is a double stack. The Slim Hawg is a single stack .45. The funny part is when I brought it back, after they gave me a refund Ed went in the back to get my .380 ammo and brings it back out. He's like - Look - It's all better..as he racked the slide back and forth. I was like - Um, ok...you can keep it...LOL. They said the guide rail had some crud stuck on it and caused the slide to jam. Yeah - not. It took a lot of force with the slide against the table to get that round out.

So today I went to get some ammo to break in the Kimber and show it to Ed...Got my back order .223, some more .380 and 500 rounds of .45. As I show him the Kimber he was like - Yeah these are real nice just over priced. I told him what I got it for and he was like - "You got a great deal! BTW the owner took that Slim Hawg out to shoot it - it jammed on the 3rd clip!!!!"

Just like it did for me! LOL Dirty my a$$... LMAO...

Good bye and good ridden. Maybe some of their other guns are better but I do not recommend the Slim Hawg to anyone...

Going to the range in the morning. I'll post the results when I'm done...

Well, gun shot great - Renee's phone camera sucks so no pics. I'll get some next time around if anyones interested.

Peace out -

Rob D.

That's a 3 inch barrel, correct? How does the accuracy/recoil compare to your XD40sc?

quote Originally posted by mikejhjr: That's a 3 inch barrel, correct? How does the accuracy/recoil compare to your XD40sc?

Accuracy is on par...Recoil is a little worst but very managable...

Ok got about 350 rounds down the pipe. A few FTE's but nothing major, just with particular ammo. Feeds the Saber jacketed HP's great.

I love this baby...

New grips on her...

I have to ask this though not downing your choice of gun. Why a .45 for a carry gun? I've shot them at the local range and they have way to much kick for something I'd want to carry... I like the .40 but still a lot of kick.. my 9mm i feel i have the best control over so long as i have my mag in it that i can wrap my little finger around.

quote Originally posted by pontiackid86: I have to ask this though not downing your choice of gun. Why a .45 for a carry gun? I've shot them at the local range and they have way to much kick for something I'd want to carry... I like the .40 but still a lot of kick.. my 9mm i feel i have the best control over so long as i have my mag in it that i can wrap my little finger around.

No problem. Because I can LOL I've been shooting .45's for a long time. The 1911 platform has a very natural point of aim, is very reliable and carries a lot of knock down power.....I'm a big 1911 fan and love the .45 round. Shoot one of these and you'll see the recoil is very managable. I have a Glock 27 .40 that I carry also.

If I was going to go with something small it would probably be a .380. I got Renee a Sig 238 and a pocket holster. The thing is great for a pocket pistol. Hmmm, now I can strap on the .45, the glock and carry a .380 in my pocket... LOL...

Rob D.

A steel frame .45 does not have as much recoil as you'd think. The steel frame absorbs most of the recoil. I am much more accurate with my 1911, than I am with my Glock 23 (.40 S&W). My biggest gripe is that they are heavy as hell.

Jim

If the .45 kicks too much, may I recommend...


But hey, it's better than harsh language.

LOL This sums it up for me...

quote Originally posted by Formula88: If the .45 kicks too much, may I recommend... But hey, it's better than harsh language.

I started with a 380.. because of the small frame and my big hands It did have a lot of kick to it.. more than i was comferable with. If I cant wrapy my pinky around it than I'm not a fan of it.

As far as weight my walther has a polymer frame and with a full mag (10 shot) it is a very comfertable weight to carry..