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Captured U.S. spy drone displayed on Iranian TV by rinselberg
Started on: 12-08-2011 02:52 PM
Replies: 40
Last post by: maryjane on 12-17-2011 01:22 AM
rinselberg
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Report this Post12-08-2011 02:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageSend a Private Message to rinselbergDirect Link to This Post
http://www.foxnews.com/poli...one/?test=latestnews

With early knowledge that the aircraft had likely remained intact, the senior U.S. official also told Fox News that President Obama was presented with three separate options for retrieving or destroying the drone. The president ultimately decided not to proceed with any of the plans because it could have been seen as an act of war, the official told Fox News.

Among the options the U.S. considered were sending in a special-ops team to retrieve the drone; sending in a team to blow up the aircraft; and launching an airstrike to destroy it.
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Report this Post12-08-2011 02:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SteelSend a Private Message to SteelDirect Link to This Post
Should have had a self destruct feature.. movies are so fake.
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Report this Post12-08-2011 03:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for partfieroSend a Private Message to partfieroDirect Link to This Post
Obama Administration Urges Congress to Weaken Iran Sanctions Bill


Executive Branch - POLITICS


Published December 06, 2011

| Associated Press

The Obama administration is pressuring Congress to ease the potential impact of crippling sanctions on Iran's Central Bank, arguing that the restrictions will drive up oil prices and wind up being a boon for Tehran and its pursuit of a nuclear weapon.

In a plea to House and Senate negotiators crafting a broad defense bill, the administration has asked for substantive changes to a provision that would target foreign financial institutions that do business with the Central Bank of Iran, including a six-month delay for all the penalties. But the chief sponsors of the sanctions, which the Senate resoundingly backed last week on a 100-0 vote, are resisting the request.

In a letter late Monday to House and Senate negotiators, Sens. Mark Kirk, R-Ill., and Bob Menendez, D-N.J., pleaded with them to leave the sanctions intact.

The penalties are "tough, responsible and, most importantly, bipartisan," the two lawmakers wrote. "It provides the administration another key tool to curb Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons, while keeping oil markets stable and encouraging other nations to reduce Iranian oil purchases. With the support of every single United States senator, it needs no alternations."

Lawmakers said they hope to complete work on the massive, $662 billion defense bill by the end of the week.

Tougher sanctions against Iran have widespread support in Congress, reflecting concerns not only for U.S. national security but ally Israel's as well. Two weeks ago, the Obama administration announced a new set of penalties against Iran, including identifying for the fire in its current form because it would undermine its effort to bring international pressure on Iran. He also warned that instead of penalizing Tehran, the sanctions could have the opposite effect by boosting oil prices and benefiting Iran financially.

"Iran's greatest economic resource is its oil exports," Geithner wrote. "Sales of crude oil line the regime's pockets, sustain its human rights abuses and feed its nuclear ambitions like no other sector of the Iranian economy."

Kirk said he has had discussions with oil suppliers who say production is set to double with the wars ending in Iraq and Libya. Kirk also said last week that Saudi Arabia's ambassador assured him they were willing to increase production.

The Republican senator said the administration's opposition was a "miscalculation on the part of the president's re-election campaign" that the congressional effort would result in higher gas prices for voters next year.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/poli...insite#ixzz1fyYXSQ00

[This message has been edited by partfiero (edited 12-08-2011).]

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Report this Post12-08-2011 03:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for htexans1Send a Private Message to htexans1Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

President Obama was presented with three separate options for retrieving or destroying the drone. The president ultimately decided not to proceed with any of the plans because it could have been seen as an act of war, the official told Fox News.

.


The complete and total lack of a spine, has compromised technology and equipment to the enemy. Thank you Comrade Obama for not having a spinal column.

(Thats sarcasm if your not picking up on it)

[This message has been edited by htexans1 (edited 12-08-2011).]

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Report this Post12-08-2011 04:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NiterrorzSend a Private Message to NiterrorzDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by htexans1:


The complete and total lack of a spine, has compromised technology and equipment to the enemy. Thank you Comrade Obama for not having a spinal column.

(Thats sarcasm if your not picking up on it)



totally agree with you what a crock now they will catch up that much faster. on the other side of that note, the video is a fake. that is not the spy drone its a horrible copy of a RQ-170 Sentinel. not only would it be in pieces if shot at even with AA fire but would probably be in itty bitty pieces if hit with a missle. so rest assured this is iranian propaganda dispite the governments confirmation of a drone being shot down (which im shur one was im just saying it wasnt the one shown on state tv thats all).
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Report this Post12-08-2011 05:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageSend a Private Message to rinselbergDirect Link to This Post
Reports are that the Iranians didn't shoot at the drone--that it went out of control and crash-landed in Iran.

So the Iranians could have the drone without any or without major damage, as shown on their TV.
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Report this Post12-08-2011 05:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for James Bond 007Send a Private Message to James Bond 007Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Steel:

Should have had a self destruct feature.. movies are so fake.


I agree, dam American scientists are they retarded?
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Report this Post12-08-2011 05:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for User00013170Send a Private Message to User00013170Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

Reports are that the Iranians didn't shoot at the drone--that it went out of control and crash-landed in Iran.

So the Iranians could have the drone without any or without major damage, as shown on their TV.


I was wondering about that myself, if they shot it down it should have been in a thousand pieces.

Looks cool, like a mini b2 .
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Report this Post12-08-2011 05:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NiterrorzSend a Private Message to NiterrorzDirect Link to This Post
the problem with the one they show is no aircarft that i am aware of has ever had a grill over the intake of the engine....ever. that and it looks just a little ..off if you get my meaning like it doesnt look like it has certian angles correct. but it could just be my eyes playing trick on me as ive never seen one of these upclose and personal. also if they did capture it, it is entirely possible that the drone was "hacked" by the iranians (as there was a story about this happening not to long ago) and they simply flew it back to base and landed it. if thats the case how embarassing it that?!
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Report this Post12-08-2011 05:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for User00013170Send a Private Message to User00013170Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Niterrorz:

the problem with the one they show is no aircarft that i am aware of has ever had a grill over the intake of the engine....ever. that and it looks just a little ..off if you get my meaning like it doesnt look like it has certian angles correct. but it could just be my eyes playing trick on me as ive never seen one of these upclose and personal. also if they did capture it, it is entirely possible that the drone was "hacked" by the iranians (as there was a story about this happening not to long ago) and they simply flew it back to base and landed it. if thats the case how embarassing it that?!


I'm thinking that the grill is to help scatter radar coming at it head on..
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Report this Post12-08-2011 05:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 8BallSend a Private Message to 8BallDirect Link to This Post
Or... (conspiracy theorist side of me...)
Maybe the US intentionally downed a FLAWED design Drone to intentionally throw off the enemies research.


It would not be the first time.
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Report this Post12-08-2011 05:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ThatFieroKidSend a Private Message to ThatFieroKidDirect Link to This Post
I say if they don't give it back drop a bomb right on Ahmawhogivesacraps's palace.
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Report this Post12-08-2011 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for User00013170Send a Private Message to User00013170Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ThatFieroKid:

I say if they don't give it back drop a bomb right on Ahmawhogivesacraps's palace.


Too late now. They have had it long enough to know how it ticks.
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Report this Post12-08-2011 06:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
Its a remote control fancy model airplane. I really dont think theres a whole lot to super secret technology there. Everyone on the planet knows they are there and cameras have been there in high resolution since satellites went up 30 years ago. It uses the same weapons (if it was armed) thats been in inventory for years. Iranians prob already have them all. Let them keep it and move on. They do need to make a failproof self destruct though, if not just to save face. Pretty ez...just make it if it dont recieve a proper signal or respond properly, it blows up.
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Report this Post12-08-2011 06:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for User00013170Send a Private Message to User00013170Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

Its a remote control fancy model airplane. I really dont think theres a whole lot to super secret technology there. Everyone on the planet knows they are there and cameras have been there in high resolution since satellites went up 30 years ago. It uses the same weapons (if it was armed) thats been in inventory for years. Iranians prob already have them all. Let them keep it and move on. They do need to make a failproof self destruct though, if not just to save face. Pretty ez...just make it if it dont recieve a proper signal or respond properly, it blows up.


Failsafe destruction using 'lost communication' as its key could get dangerous for us too.. I would prefer us send a boom signal to it.

[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 12-08-2011).]

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Report this Post12-08-2011 06:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NiterrorzSend a Private Message to NiterrorzDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

Its a remote control fancy model airplane. I really dont think theres a whole lot to super secret technology there. Everyone on the planet knows they are there and cameras have been there in high resolution since satellites went up 30 years ago. It uses the same weapons (if it was armed) thats been in inventory for years. Iranians prob already have them all. Let them keep it and move on. They do need to make a failproof self destruct though, if not just to save face. Pretty ez...just make it if it dont recieve a proper signal or respond properly, it blows up.


its not that no one knows about them it the fact that the jet propulsion technology that it employs it probably way more advanced than that of any fighter iran has. ot to mntion the metalergical properties of the turbine blades it employs.

aside from that they havent had it that long to know everything about it. i would say yes they have samples that are being tested so destroying it now it pointless less you want to stop them from gathering radio frequency and encryption amongst other software technologies from them. it will take at least a month for them to get a complete workup on it and know what all the materials are to build it. then even longer to figure out how to manufacture the materials used in its contruction ( thats if they are odd combinations of metals and forging)
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Report this Post12-08-2011 06:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
I still dont think theres anything really advanced. Its supposed to be disposable, so its made cheap (relatively). Most middle eastern countries bought Soviet aircraft. In some cases those were superior to US made planes. Some of the later Migs and Sukoys are as advanced as the F22. Their problem is they lacked pilots capable of using them properly. When F4s were king of the hill, we were terrified of Mig 17s. If we got caught by surprise, our rules were nose down, full afterburner and run like hell. They couldnt match sheer speed.
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Report this Post12-08-2011 06:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NiterrorzSend a Private Message to NiterrorzDirect Link to This Post
ya thats true altho i love phantoms the migs were faster by alot. still i wile expendible i feel at least there is software of value to them but then again if they did hack it then they probably have all they need from it
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Report this Post12-08-2011 07:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jetsnvettes2000Send a Private Message to jetsnvettes2000Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Niterrorz:

the problem with the one they show is no aircarft that i am aware of has ever had a grill over the intake of the engine....


Been doing it since the 70's not new at all.

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Report this Post12-08-2011 07:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by htexans1:


The complete and total lack of a spine, has compromised technology and equipment to the enemy. Thank you Comrade Obama for not having a spinal column.

(Thats sarcasm if your not picking up on it)



How else is Obama going to spread the tech around so that everyone has their fair share of stealth technology?
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Report this Post12-08-2011 07:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for normsfClick Here to visit normsf's HomePageSend a Private Message to normsfDirect Link to This Post
Hello, this aircraft loss is a severe blow to the USA. This aircraft was designed to loiter at 50,000 ft undetected over an enemys position using its most advanced Optical cameras radar evading shape and coating. This was deep in Iran's air space 130mi inland across the border, spying on Irans Atomic research labs and searching their locations. The so called electronic "teather" was somehow lost and our ground controllers could not keep contact of her. The drone continued on its mission and most likey ran out of fuel and glided or spriled down like a tree seed helicopters down to the ground. This is why in the Iranian video, they show only above the wings not below as its covered with plywood and banners so as not to show the damage done underneath, which would give clues to our techs here.The Iranians may never had even known that it was above them until it actually fell out of sky in front of them. The Russians would love to reverse engineer this craft.
We should have destroyed this a week ago, what difference would it have made to cross into their space whether by missiles or commando teams, we dont want that high tech to come back and really Kill us later on. Might as well do it now while we have the resources in the area. Thanks Norm

[This message has been edited by normsf (edited 12-08-2011).]

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Report this Post12-08-2011 08:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jetsnvettes2000:


Been doing it since the 70's not new at all.



There have been air inlet doors, radar signature deflectors, noise suppression addons, bird strike preventative equipment and of course EAPS on many many aircraft, even before the 70s. "Grills" are definitely nothing new on a military aircraft's jet engine. Any aircraft operating from unimproved fields, will usually be fitted with a particle separator of some sort, and tho these drones are usually launched from very small launch sites, I suspect the thing we see on this drone is either to mask radar signature returns, or to decrease noise.
And, how's this being played out in the Mideast news? Well, according to them, we aren't going after this drone because we are afraid of them or more specific-- their "strong response".

 
quote
Fear of Iran Makes US Abort Covert Plan to Retrieve Spy Drone

TEHRAN (FNA)- US special forces intended to conduct a covert mission inside Iran to retrieve or destroy a very precious stealth drone that was downed by Iran on Sunday, but ultimately gave up the plan for their fear of Iran's tough response, Washington officials revealed on Thursday.
[snip/snip]


In January, Commander of the IRGC Aerospace Force Brigadier General Amir Ali Hajizadeh told "Payam Engelab" (Message of the Revolution) monthly, an internal publication of the IRGC, that Iranian military forces had shot down several spy planes of foreign forces, adding that two of these planes had been shot down over the Persian Gulf.

"We have, thus far, shot down a large number of their highly advanced spy planes".

After shooting down these planes the IRGC aerospace unit has copied and produced them in large numbers through reverse engineering, the commander added.


http://english.farsnews.com...xt.php?nn=9007276589

My guess is that with the current situation in Egypt being more than a little "unstable" and the recent NATO problems in Pakistan, the administration had to be more careful than usual to not pizz of anyone in the Arab/Muslim world right now, and I wouldn't be surprised to fnd the near term election cycle played into the decision as well. A safe political decision even if a unpopular one.

Why would they try to weaken the sanctions against Iran? Hard for me to fathom, as the president has publicly said the move to alternative energy would depend on higher oil prices to force America to switch over and to invest in greener energy. Of course, he wasn't in the middle of re-election when he spoke those words.

It's no biggie really--sanctions or n sanctions, when the time is right someone is going to take out Iran's nuclear capability, and I'm betting it doesn't come thru negotations or from our Pentagon. Also a safe political strategy.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-08-2011).]

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Report this Post12-08-2011 09:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
I don't know how safe the decision was, but Obama has shown when faced with the big decisions, indecision is his natural response.
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Report this Post12-08-2011 09:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for normsfClick Here to visit normsf's HomePageSend a Private Message to normsfDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:

I don't know how safe the decision was, but Obama has shown when faced with the big decisions, indecision is his natural response.



Maybe he voted "Present" again
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Report this Post12-09-2011 01:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareDirect Link to This Post
Really fellas....You think that in all that went into building the Drones that they did not think this might happen and add a safety feature where nothing could be found out if on was taken...I mean I know everyone wants to throw this on Obama but I dont think he is the one that deisinged, build or caused the Drone to go down.....Get over it......
To bad Ol W aint still in the W-House....Hell we would be armoured up and dropping in troops as I type starting another war we can't afford....Of course he would have to come up with another lie this time...I dont think WMDs scam would work again.....
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Report this Post12-09-2011 02:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for NiterrorzSend a Private Message to NiterrorzDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:

Really fellas....You think that in all that went into building the Drones that they did not think this might happen and add a safety feature where nothing could be found out if on was taken...I mean I know everyone wants to throw this on Obama but I dont think he is the one that deisinged, build or caused the Drone to go down.....Get over it......
To bad Ol W aint still in the W-House....Hell we would be armoured up and dropping in troops as I type starting another war we can't afford....Of course he would have to come up with another lie this time...I dont think WMDs scam would work again.....


no they i dont think they did. if you read the news lately you would have seen that our drones have already been hacked and a few years ago a guy with a satellite dish got ariel photos from a DOD satellite. for some reason they dont plan ahead thats teh whole problem.

[This message has been edited by Niterrorz (edited 12-09-2011).]

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Report this Post12-09-2011 02:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Niterrorz:


no they i dont think they did. if you read the news lately you would have seen that our drones have already been hacked and a few years ago a guy with a satellite dish got ariel photos from a DOD satellite. for some reason they dont plan ahead thats teh whole problem.



Yeah....I don't beleive 75% of what I see or read from the Media.....
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Report this Post12-09-2011 02:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTDirect Link to This Post
Cool, now maybe the U.S will stop trying to replace humans (jobs) with machines. I'm sure there is nothing extremely top secret about the design of the craft. They may be more concerned that the crafts computer can be hacked to give out some location/secret information. In any event, you basically have a radio controlled aircraft with a camera. Hell, I can get one for $300 at my local hobby store
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Report this Post12-09-2011 02:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:

I don't know how safe the decision was, but Obama has shown when faced with the big decisions, indecision is his natural response.



Sometimes, apparent or percieved indecision is the decision.
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Report this Post12-09-2011 02:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneDirect Link to This Post

maryjane

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quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:

Really fellas....You think that in all that went into building the Drones that they did not think this might happen and add a safety feature where nothing could be found out if on was taken...I mean I know everyone wants to throw this on Obama but I dont think he is the one that deisinged, build or caused the Drone to go down.....Get over it......
To bad Ol W aint still in the W-House....Hell we would be armoured up and dropping in troops as I type starting another war we can't afford....Of course he would have to come up with another lie this time...I dont think WMDs scam would work again.....


No, he didn't design it--had absolutely zero to do with it. He does however, as Commander in Chief, have the first, last, and only word regarding what happens when another country has an item that belongs to us and he does have the first, last and only word regarding whether said item is/was sent into that country's airspace to begin with. You don't get to just take the accolades when you are president--you also have to take the flack and responsibility when things you signed off on go awry.

(quick, someone--begin the spin--the deflection--"don't look here--Look there--Look at GWB Look at GWB!!")

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-09-2011).]

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Report this Post12-09-2011 08:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by IMSA GT:

Cool, now maybe the U.S will stop trying to replace humans (jobs) with machines. I'm sure there is nothing extremely top secret about the design of the craft. They may be more concerned that the crafts computer can be hacked to give out some location/secret information. In any event, you basically have a radio controlled aircraft with a camera. Hell, I can get one for $300 at my local hobby store


Exactly what I was pointing out.

*** Mig 17s werent faster than F4, they were superior in everything but speed was why we were ordered to run. Dont forget the 'Cobra' maneuver later soviet planes could do to get on the tail of pursuing US aircraft. Im not sure even the F22 can do that or evade it. I dont stay up on newer mil aircraft like I used to. I know it has vectoring thrust that makes it more maneuverable, but dont know if it can slam on the brakes and essentially come to a stop like the Mig.

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Report this Post12-09-2011 09:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SCCAFieroSend a Private Message to SCCAFieroDirect Link to This Post
Maybe "they" lost it on purpose. Think Independence Day.

Nothing like a good conspiracy theory to get the blood boiling.
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Formula88
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Report this Post12-09-2011 09:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:
Sometimes, apparent or percieved indecision is the decision.


Very true. If you choose not to decide, you have still made a choice.
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Formula88
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Report this Post12-09-2011 09:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post

Formula88

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quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:

Really fellas....You think that in all that went into building the Drones that they did not think this might happen and add a safety feature where nothing could be found out if on was taken...I mean I know everyone wants to throw this on Obama but I dont think he is the one that deisinged, build or caused the Drone to go down.....Get over it......
To bad Ol W aint still in the W-House....Hell we would be armoured up and dropping in troops as I type starting another war we can't afford....Of course he would have to come up with another lie this time...I dont think WMDs scam would work again.....


Given that we've already had reports of the drones using unencrypted data transmission, it wouldn't suprise me. It's not about politics or Obama. It's about the military doing something stupid by not securing something that would seem obvious to secure. The only political jab towards Obama is his indecision in taking action to secure the drone after it was lost. I guess we'll have to assume he carefully weighed the options and decided letting China and Russia get the tech was the least risky option.

You know, like how W carefully analyzed the intelligence data that led the rest of the world to conclude Saddam had a viable WMD program. Or does that only work for Democrats and Socialists?

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 12-09-2011).]

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madcurl
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Report this Post12-16-2011 05:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlDirect Link to This Post
http://news.yahoo.com/exclu...ineer-164100415.html

So that's how they did it.

More From Amid Congo election dispute, rival candidates carefully plan confrontation
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Iran guided the CIA's "lost" stealth drone to an intact landing inside hostile territory by exploiting a navigational weakness long-known to the US military, according to an Iranian engineer now working on the captured drone's systems inside Iran.

Iranian electronic warfare specialists were able to cut off communications links of the American bat-wing RQ-170 Sentinel, says the engineer, who works for one of many Iranian military and civilian teams currently trying to unravel the drone’s stealth and intelligence secrets, and who could not be named for his safety.

Using knowledge gleaned from previous downed American drones and a technique proudly claimed by Iranian commanders in September, the Iranian specialists then reconfigured the drone's GPS coordinates to make it land in Iran at what the drone thought was its actual home base in Afghanistan.

IN PICTURES: America's Predator drones

"The GPS navigation is the weakest point," the Iranian engineer told the Monitor, giving the most detailed description yet published of Iran's "electronic ambush" of the highly classified US drone. "By putting noise [jamming] on the communications, you force the bird into autopilot. This is where the bird loses its brain."

The “spoofing” technique that the Iranians used – which took into account precise landing altitudes, as well as latitudinal and longitudinal data – made the drone “land on its own where we wanted it to, without having to crack the remote-control signals and communications” from the US control center, says the engineer.

The revelations about Iran's apparent electronic prowess come as the US, Israel, and some European nations appear to be engaged in an ever-widening covert war with Iran, which has seen assassinations of Iranian nuclear scientists, explosions at Iran's missile and industrial facilities, and the Stuxnet computer virus that set back Iran’s nuclear program.

Now this engineer’s account of how Iran took over one of America’s most sophisticated drones suggests Tehran has found a way to hit back. The techniques were developed from reverse-engineering several less sophisticated American drones captured or shot down in recent years, the engineer says, and by taking advantage of weak, easily manipulated GPS signals, which calculate location and speed from multiple satellites.

RECOMMENDED: Downed US drone: How Iran caught the 'beast'

Western military experts and a number of published papers on GPS spoofing indicate that the scenario described by the Iranian engineer is plausible.

"Even modern combat-grade GPS [is] very susceptible” to manipulation, says former US Navy electronic warfare specialist Robert Densmore, adding that it is “certainly possible” to recalibrate the GPS on a drone so that it flies on a different course. “I wouldn't say it's easy, but the technology is there.”

In 2009, Iran-backed Shiite militants in Iraq were found to have downloaded live, unencrypted video streams from American Predator drones with inexpensive, off-the-shelf software. But Iran’s apparent ability now to actually take control of a drone is far more significant.

Iran asserted its ability to do this in September, as pressure mounted over its nuclear program.

Gen. Moharam Gholizadeh, the deputy for electronic warfare at the air defense headquarters of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), described to Fars News how Iran could alter the path of a GPS-guided missile – a tactic more easily applied to a slower-moving drone.

“We have a project on hand that is one step ahead of jamming, meaning ‘deception’ of the aggressive systems,” said Gholizadeh, such that “we can define our own desired information for it so the path of the missile would change to our desired destination.”

Gholizadeh said that “all the movements of these [enemy drones]” were being watched, and “obstructing” their work was “always on our agenda.”

That interview has since been pulled from Fars’ Persian-language website. And last month, the relatively young Gholizadeh died of a heart attack, which some Iranian news sites called suspicious – suggesting the electronic warfare expert may have been a casualty in the covert war against Iran.

Iran's growing electronic capabilities
Iranian lawmakers say the drone capture is a "great epic" and claim to be "in the final steps of breaking into the aircraft's secret code."

Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta told Fox News on Dec. 13 that the US will "absolutely" continue the drone campaign over Iran, looking for evidence of any nuclear weapons work. But the stakes are higher for such surveillance, now that Iran can apparently disrupt the work of US drones.

US officials skeptical of Iran’s capabilities blame a malfunction, but so far can't explain how Iran acquired the drone intact. One American analyst ridiculed Iran’s capability, telling Defense News that the loss was “like dropping a Ferrari into an ox-cart technology culture.”

Yet Iran’s claims to the contrary resonate more in light of new details about how it brought down the drone – and other markers that signal growing electronic expertise.

A former senior Iranian official who asked not to be named said: "There are a lot of human resources in Iran.... Iran is not like Pakistan."

“Technologically, our distance from the Americans, the Zionists, and other advanced countries is not so far to make the downing of this plane seem like a dream for us … but it could be amazing for others,” deputy IRGC commander Gen. Hossein Salami said this week.

According to a European intelligence source, Iran shocked Western intelligence agencies in a previously unreported incident that took place sometime in the past two years, when it managed to “blind” a CIA spy satellite by “aiming a laser burst quite accurately.”

More recently, Iran was able to hack Google security certificates, says the engineer. In September, the Google accounts of 300,000 Iranians were made accessible by hackers. The targeted company said "circumstantial evidence" pointed to a "state-driven attack" coming from Iran, meant to snoop on users.

Cracking the protected GPS coordinates on the Sentinel drone was no more difficult, asserts the engineer.

US knew of GPS systems' vulnerability
Use of drones has become more risky as adversaries like Iran hone countermeasures. The US military has reportedly been aware of vulnerabilities with pirating unencrypted drone data streams since the Bosnia campaign in the mid-1990s.

Top US officials said in 2009 that they were working to encrypt all drone data streams in Iraq, Pakistan, and Afghanistan – after finding militant laptops loaded with days' worth of data in Iraq – and acknowledged that they were "subject to listening and exploitation."

Perhaps as easily exploited are the GPS navigational systems upon which so much of the modern military depends.

"GPS signals are weak and can be easily outpunched [overridden] by poorly controlled signals from television towers, devices such as laptops and MP3 players, or even mobile satellite services," Andrew Dempster, a professor from the University of New South Wales School of Surveying and Spatial Information Systems, told a March conference on GPS vulnerability in Australia.

"This is not only a significant hazard for military, industrial, and civilian transport and communication systems, but criminals have worked out how they can jam GPS," he says.

The US military has sought for years to fortify or find alternatives to the GPS system of satellites, which are used for both military and civilian purposes. In 2003, a “Vulnerability Assessment Team” at Los Alamos National Laboratory published research explaining how weak GPS signals were easily overwhelmed with a stronger local signal.

“A more pernicious attack involves feeding the GPS receiver fake GPS signals so that it believes it is located somewhere in space and time that it is not,” reads the Los Alamos report. “In a sophisticated spoofing attack, the adversary would send a false signal reporting the moving target’s true position and then gradually walk the target to a false position.”

The vulnerability remains unresolved, and a paper presented at a Chicago communications security conference in October laid out parameters for successful spoofing of both civilian and military GPS units to allow a "seamless takeover" of drones or other targets.

To “better cope with hostile electronic attacks,” the US Air Force in late September awarded two $47 million contracts to develop a "navigation warfare" system to replace GPS on aircraft and missiles, according to the Defense Update website.

Official US data on GPS describes "the ongoing GPS modernization program" for the Air Force, which "will enhance the jam resistance of the military GPS service, making it more robust."

Why the drone's underbelly was damaged
Iran's drone-watching project began in 2007, says the Iranian engineer, and then was stepped up and became public in 2009 – the same year that the RQ-170 was first deployed in Afghanistan with what were then state-of-the-art surveillance systems.

In January, Iran said it had shot down two conventional (nonstealth) drones, and in July, Iran showed Russian experts several US drones – including one that had been watching over the underground uranium enrichment facility at Fordo, near the holy city of Qom.

In capturing the stealth drone this month at Kashmar, 140 miles inside northeast Iran, the Islamic Republic appears to have learned from two years of close observation.

Iran displayed the drone on state-run TV last week, with a dent in the left wing and the undercarriage and landing gear hidden by anti-American banners.

The Iranian engineer explains why: "If you look at the location where we made it land and the bird's home base, they both have [almost] the same altitude," says the Iranian engineer. "There was a problem [of a few meters] with the exact altitude so the bird's underbelly was damaged in landing; that's why it was covered in the broadcast footage."

Prior to the disappearance of the stealth drone earlier this month, Iran’s electronic warfare capabilities were largely unknown – and often dismissed.

"We all feel drunk [with happiness] now," says the Iranian engineer. "Have you ever had a new laptop? Imagine that excitement multiplied many-fold." When the Revolutionary Guard first recovered the drone, they were aware it might be rigged to self-destruct, but they "were so excited they could not stay away."

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Mickey_Moose
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Report this Post12-16-2011 06:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Steel:

Should have had a self destruct feature.. movies are so fake.


I agree, adding a suicide battery/circuit could have easily been installed in the event should the drone fall into the 'wrong hands' - but maybe that is/was too much to ask?
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htexans1
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Report this Post12-16-2011 07:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for htexans1Send a Private Message to htexans1Direct Link to This Post
closest story I found that says this... lol

http://online.wsj.com/artic...102504272876554.html

Fox's story says "did GPS jamming down drone"

Version of story I got said the drone went down in AF and Taliban got it, or the Iranians had people there and got it. (Im still looking for that story online) heard that on Fox also.

[This message has been edited by htexans1 (edited 12-16-2011).]

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uhlanstan
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Report this Post12-16-2011 08:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for uhlanstanSend a Private Message to uhlanstanDirect Link to This Post
Mad curl is correct,, technology from russia & china was used to bring this down
this is serious technoligy the liberal lefties & marxist want,, the democrat lefties working in our defence plants have not been able
to sell us out Yet..hard left wants this tech,, a major blow
the military would have destroyed this on the ground ,,but Obumbles & his rat pack thought it would be an act of War to destroy it on Iranian territory.
The Iranians are at war with us,they hate our guts ,,this is a real loss
the craft was overpowered electronically by people closer to the drone than the men who had luanched the drone.
this was planned..Our Sworn enemies China & Russia did this ,, they want the latest technology
Russian aircraft are not as reliable as ours ,,Our misiles shoot them down when required..Ron paul is desparately trying to change this
career politician,bufoon Ron Paul will make sure that His Iranian moslem friends & the marxist have better technoligy & can defeat us

IRAN DECLARED WAR ON THE USA,,IRAN IS AT WAR WITH US..
WITH A DRONE IRAN COULD EASIER BOMB ISRAEL OR A LARGE U.S. BASE
OR EVEN WASHINGTON D.C. WITH A NUKE,, YEEPEE!!
we have sent enough money to china they now have an Aircraft carrier afloat
Americans are demanding with thier wallets ,China dominate us ??weird

[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 12-16-2011).]

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doublec4
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Report this Post12-16-2011 08:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
I propose that they start hiring Microsoft to manufacture these drones...

by the time they fall into enemy hands, they'll be plagued with red ring of death, or fatal blue screen errors and they'll be useless anyways!

In all seriousness though, this has to be somewhat disheartening for the engineers who build this stuff. All of that hard work to have it slip into someone else's hands to gain from it.
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TK
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Report this Post12-16-2011 11:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TKSend a Private Message to TKDirect Link to This Post
I am thinking it's intentional. Load it with cameras and sensors but not the best. Fly it out there and see what happens. You learn a lot about air defenses. We know there is the potential to lose one of these things and there are plans in case that happens. Maybe not destroying it was the plan.

Just because the US government is acting shocked and surprised, doesn't mean it wasn't intentional all along.

Oops, we lost one. Dang. This is bad. darn. Can we have it back? No? Darn. This so bad.
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