------------------ Dealing with failure is easy: work hard to improve. Success is also easy to handle: you've solved the wrong problem, work hard to improve.
[This message has been edited by DRA (edited 07-22-2011).]
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10:29 AM
PFF
System Bot
Synthesis Member
Posts: 12207 From: Jordan, MN Registered: Feb 2002
Didn't see it on the net, didn't hear about it initially on the net, haven't searched for it on the net, so I should just pull a link outa my ................ nevermind! LOL
------------------ Dealing with failure is easy: work hard to improve. Success is also easy to handle: you've solved the wrong problem, work hard to improve.
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10:40 AM
DRA Member
Posts: 4543 From: Martinez, Ga, USA Registered: Oct 1999
1 fatality so far, sounds like they lucked out from the way the streets look. Possibly 2 explosions, still not hearing any real details.
15 confirmed injured 7 confirmed fatality possibly car bomb Confirmed to not be an accident ------------------ Dealing with failure is easy: work hard to improve. Success is also easy to handle: you've solved the wrong problem, work hard to improve.
[This message has been edited by DRA (edited 07-22-2011).]
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11:00 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
I contacted my Norwegian friend, Linn. This is what she said just a few minutes ago: "As you probably know, there has been a bombing in the city, in the building where our primeminister and all the politicians work. Also, there has been a shooting at a summercamp for young teens who are members of the ruling political party in Norway... They havent given us much information yet, but they have arrested the man that most likely is behind the shooting. he was dressed like a policeman (but he was not) and said he was going to tell them about the bombing that had just happend, and then he just started shooting.. Many are dead, and hurt. Its so unreal for this to happen in Norway.. Thanks for asking: )"
------------------ I'm young, impulsive, and naïve; but I'm learning.
"Of all the illusions that beset mankind none is quite so curious as that tendency to suppose that we are mentally and morally superior to those who differ from us in opinion." - Elbert Hubbard
quote
Originally posted by ls3mach:
How's your butt hole? Have you had it clenched? I always clench mine for good luck. Also helps keep it firm. It used to get sore when I would do it for too long, but not so much anymore.
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07:54 PM
williegoat Member
Posts: 20783 From: Glendale, AZ Registered: Mar 2009
Several of my co-workers are Norwegian and Danish, and have friends and family in Norway; so this was a big topic all day. They watched closely, the Norwegian news and kept in touch with people there. From what they told me, the person responsible is not that different from Tim McVeigh or Jared Loughner: a nut with a grudge against the Norwegian Labour party. I am told that this party is just slightly left of center. A shocking tragedy, to say the least.
Here is a link to a Norwegin news source (I can't make heads or tails of it, though)
It looks like he has deleted any entries older than a week ago.
Also on his twitter page, his only post was on the 17th of July.. It said.. “One person with a belief is equal to the force of 100 000 who have only interests.”
*shakes his head* All this because he has issues with the ruling political party... For that, he goes to a Youth Camp for the political party and shoots the kids.. It is also believed that he is the one who detonated the bomb as well. Sick.. Just Sick.
[This message has been edited by 8Ball (edited 07-22-2011).]
..MIXED INTELLIGENCE SOME SAY OVER 80 KILLED what ?? this seems high a genuwine nut bag many claim it was rightwing,in the first hours ,many lefty nut jobs in Norway very political correct ,,a lot of Norwegians wonder what happen to the Vikings,, they now have the pansy boys
Unreal have read that intell reports were correct,,over 80 killed still seems high unless the guy was military trained,or practice using mockups I have been surprised at the low number of killed at some shootings,,except when Islamic moslems(lovers of peace) start shooting in crowded airports or childrens nursery or school.. I know if i did this the death toll would be very very high.I have the training for multiple targets over the years no one butchers & slaughters babies, children & inocents like our submissive Moslim brothers
came across on radio network news, death total is over 80
[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 07-22-2011).]
This man has to have had military training ,,remember if you gotta make your getta way by water go under and swim as far out as possible,quick breath back under , if he was not infantry he got specialized training ,,it is difficult to shoot this many people Norways special forces are cool measured people similar to marine force recon ,so cool they are cold,,would be surprised if he is spec op but all is possible. a lot of people are really miffed at the norse marxist lefty,s,, real wacko,s marxist turning Norway & Sweden into crap holes,,Swedes go to Norway to work Norways passive boys is where we are headed..
[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 07-22-2011).]
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11:07 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 41375 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
Suspect named. The suspect in the twin attacks Friday that killed dozens of people in Norway was identified early Saturday as a 32-year-old Norwegian farmer.
TV2, the country's largest broadcaster, and the newspaper Dagbladet identified him as Anders Behring Breivik, 32, describing him as a member of right-wing extremist groups. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id...orway-attacks-named/
Sure sounds like another McVey
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-22-2011).]
I turned on the news at 10:00 to see if any new info was available, and their "top story" was the upcoming college football season. You've got to be freaking kidding me.
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11:17 PM
Flamberge Member
Posts: 4268 From: Terra Sancta, TX Registered: Oct 2001
It's amazing how effective the lone wolf can be, no leaking or interception of plans, no warning, totally unexpected! According to witnesses he went to the island as a police officer, called everyone in close, took out an gun (said full auto) and calmly started mowing them down, those who played dead got a bonus shot to the head. Whatever his reasoning he showed no hesitation and remained on task. Gotta wonder how someone can go that far, especially against a bunch of kids, I'm sure the islamist terrorist are in awe of their enemys capabilities, something they should take note of if they think they can convert the world. One crazy white boy does more damage in a couple of hours in a western country than they seem to be able to do with all their money and resources in the past year or more.
Don't mean to make light of a tragic event, senseless slaughter, and a poster boy to be used against anyone vaugely to the right of center. Wonder if the guy really thought about how his actions would come across, no matter what his beef with society or political/religious belief, he chose to ignore the negative light he just cast on it.
At this point I believe the guy acted alone, but we will see what shakes out when the investigation is complete.
My thoughts go to the truly innocent who have and will suffer from the actions of extremeist idiots.
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02:11 AM
DRA Member
Posts: 4543 From: Martinez, Ga, USA Registered: Oct 1999
They are saying it was a home-grown terrorist. Not for sure if it was religious or political motivated.
Does it matter if it was religious or political, someone who would kill innocents to make their point rather than manning up and going straight to the source of their frustration or injustice (percieved or actual) are cowards.
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02:18 AM
PFF
System Bot
Wichita Member
Posts: 20708 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
Does it matter if it was religious or political, someone who would kill innocents to make their point rather than manning up and going straight to the source of their frustration or injustice (percieved or actual) are cowards.
I don't understand why people call these killers cowards. That is just the wrong and way too soft of a description to call somebody that is a crazy psychopath.
Does it mater if it was religious or political? YES! Because that explains the motive. As a society we need to try to understand psychopaths and in hopes to stop them from achieving any destructive actions on our society. Many psychopaths are motivated by religious and political influences.
Although vague at the moment, it is suggested that he was a right-wing extremist and we will see if he is a Christian extremist when more details come out.
This nut ball was after the prime minister some how he got his date and time wrong, the bomb went off premature or he set it off for some reason, he had a glock & M16 ,,this is not really confirmed some who played dead were shot in the head ,some drown trying to swim away it probably has to do with the Moslems.. they are hated by many but there has been no real threat against them. A lot of angry Mullahs preach hate & they are ignored ,occassionally Norway extradites a mullah or 2,,some Kurd is the latest waiting the trip home I monitor and belong to several european military forums,, many military type young men hate thier goverment .many patriotic right winger hate the goverment & think Norway is fruit loop land .I get this from the foreign legion sites I belong to . Many Norwegian male,s have been feminized according to young Patriots ,surprised me!! In europe only the boot neck brit marines are still right wing ,& many have leanings to political correctness ,many former english speaking French Foreign Legionairs are politically correct.they are blind to thier surroundings Britain is finished just a matter of time.. I would not have been surprised if there had been an assault by a squad of angry norse on the prime minister ,, you will have to go around the police to get the truth., the police are being very careful with info. some sort of filter on the info the lid is off on this one Mother Jones & other marxist rags are having a cleaning field day.30 times they accuse the right wing & were wrong ,,this time they are right. The timing makes no sense if a trained military man was involved ,of course this guy is a nut ball,,The prime minister was not in the building say the Police the prime minister was schedualed to visit the island today,some thing went wrong with nutballs plan,any one who can gun down 80 people has his shiet together .. this was an outstanding plan really good stuff, the operator in me is impressed ! wonder what went wrong ??
your welcome for puntuation spell & grammer
[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 07-23-2011).]
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04:34 AM
DRA Member
Posts: 4543 From: Martinez, Ga, USA Registered: Oct 1999
I don't understand why people call these killers cowards. That is just the wrong and way too soft of a description to call somebody that is a crazy psychopath.
Does it mater if it was religious or political? YES! Because that explains the motive. As a society we need to try to understand psychopaths and in hopes to stop them from achieving any destructive actions on our society. Many psychopaths are motivated by religious and political influences.
Although vague at the moment, it is suggested that he was a right-wing extremist and we will see if he is a Christian extremist when more details come out.
A crazy psychopath will find a reason, religious, political, or otherwise. I fail to see how his actions reflect on any groups or belief he may associate himself with. Trying to understand why he did what he did seems a futile exercise to me, we want answers and we want to blame someone or something for a tragedy, but in our search we tend to look for outside influences when the responsibility lies totally on the group or individuals who commit such acts. If religion or politics had anything to do with the violence, Islam would be outlawed internationally based solely on the acts of violence commited in it's name. And to me, being a coward is far worse than being a crazy psychopath, being a coward is a conscience decision, being ill is not neccesarily the individuals fault. Just my .02
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08:05 AM
Wichita Member
Posts: 20708 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
I happen to like facts. More is coming out that this guy is part of some Neo-Nazi right wing group. A Swedish faction and he was a part of a 22,000 member right-wing group called Nordisk that focuses on political terrorism.
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11:57 AM
DRA Member
Posts: 4543 From: Martinez, Ga, USA Registered: Oct 1999
I happen to like facts. More is coming out that this guy is part of some Neo-Nazi right wing group. A Swedish faction and he was a part of a 22,000 member right-wing group called Nordisk that focuses on political terrorism.
And that would make him different from any other extremist wackjob how? Left, Right, Political, Religious, whats the difference?
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12:10 PM
Wichita Member
Posts: 20708 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
And that would make him different from any other extremist wackjob how? Left, Right, Political, Religious, whats the difference?
Because often times they do not act alone.
Remember 9/11? How many wackjobs were involved there?
Ever heard of Terry Nichols? If you haven't, look him up!
Reports are even coming out that there may be others involved in this.
THAT IS WHY IT MATTERS!!!!!
He is a part of a right-wing political terrorist group. I would think that would be important to know. I'm sure all the investigators and criminal psychologist working on this tragedy would find it very important to know.
To somebody like you, I guess you don't care. I guess that's why we try to leave things up to professionals.
As for you, I'm not for sure what or who you are trying to defend here. I'm assuming you are right-winger and Christian and you are trying to deflect your political leanings by saying that terrorist political and religious affiliation don't matter.
But if this was an Islamic Middle Eastern Terrorist that conducted these act, would you still say it doesn't matter the person's affiliation? Or would you be saying that Islam is a religion of violence like most right-wingers respond with?
You are starting to raise eyebrows here. It's almost like you are somewhat sympathizing with this killer. I'm not saying you are justifying his acts, just that you are trying to subtract him out of the ties he has to your political ideology.
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12:59 PM
DRA Member
Posts: 4543 From: Martinez, Ga, USA Registered: Oct 1999
Remember 9/11? How many wackjobs were involved there?
Ever heard of Terry Nichols? If you haven't, look him up!
Reports are even coming out that there may be others involved in this.
THAT IS WHY IT MATTERS!!!!!
He is a part of a right-wing political terrorist group. I would think that would be important to know. I'm sure all the investigators and criminal psychologist working on this tragedy would find it very important to know.
To somebody like you, I guess you don't care. I guess that's why we try to leave things up to professionals.
As for you, I'm not for sure what or who you are trying to defend here. I'm assuming you are right-winger and Christian and you are trying to deflect your political leanings by saying that terrorist political and religious affiliation don't matter.
But if this was an Islamic Middle Eastern Terrorist that conducted these act, would you still say it doesn't matter the person's affiliation? Or would you be saying that Islam is a religion of violence like most right-wingers respond with?
You are starting to raise eyebrows here. It's almost like you are somewhat sympathizing with this killer. I'm not saying you are justifying his acts, just that you are trying to subtract him out of the ties he has to your political ideology.
Don't consider myself "Christian", no religious or political affiliations, no sympathy for killers of innocent or cowards, I trust most people till they give me a reason not to, and consider myself to be an independent thinker. I like to hear all three sides before I state my opinion, as for facts, facts are relative, the only fact is a guy shot a lot of unarmed people and set off an explosive device that injured and killed several more. Whether he bolonged to the Columbia Record Club or the NRA, listened to show tunes or deathmetal, makes no difference! If one of those clubs or groups is directly implicated in the individuals actions then we shall precede from there, but until actual evidence is revealed as to the direct connection to the act all you have is guilt by association. If I judged a group by the actions of a few I would not have any friends! LOL
Sympathize with the guy? If it was up to me all info that could be extracted would be extracted by whatever means neccesary and he would be promptly executed in the least costly method and dumped in the local dump.
What political or religious affilliations this guy had DO NOT make a difference, no matter his beliefs in my eyes he is not worth the air he breathes.
I get sick of the right vs left, conservative vs liberal, christian vs muslim, socialist vs capitalist, crap It doesn't matter what group he belonged too or what label you put on the guy, all they are is labels, regardless of labels I feel in my heart what he did was WRONG.
I am not going to go against what my heart and own head tell me is right in order to fit into any group or label.
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02:02 PM
Wichita Member
Posts: 20708 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
Don't consider myself "Christian", no religious or political affiliations, no sympathy for killers of innocent or cowards, I trust most people till they give me a reason not to, and consider myself to be an independent thinker. I like to hear all three sides before I state my opinion, as for facts, facts are relative, the only fact is a guy shot a lot of unarmed people and set off an explosive device that injured and killed several more. Whether he bolonged to the Columbia Record Club or the NRA, listened to show tunes or deathmetal, makes no difference! If one of those clubs or groups is directly implicated in the individuals actions then we shall precede from there, but until actual evidence is revealed as to the direct connection to the act all you have is guilt by association. If I judged a group by the actions of a few I would not have any friends! LOL
Sympathize with the guy? If it was up to me all info that could be extracted would be extracted by whatever means neccesary and he would be promptly executed in the least costly method and dumped in the local dump.
What political or religious affilliations this guy had DO NOT make a difference, no matter his beliefs in my eyes he is not worth the air he breathes.
I get sick of the right vs left, conservative vs liberal, christian vs muslim, socialist vs capitalist, crap It doesn't matter what group he belonged too or what label you put on the guy, all they are is labels, regardless of labels I feel in my heart what he did was WRONG.
I am not going to go against what my heart and own head tell me is right in order to fit into any group or label.
Well, that is why you get to set back in your recliner with the remote and call it all good. This is nothing but sensationalism and entertainment to you it appears. You are often times the first person who post on tragedy of mass homicides like this one and the Tuscon one.
But you still don't think that labels and influences matters? Was there a lone gun man at Columbine?
I guess you don't get it. You must really enjoy the local evening news. It makes no matter if the person was drunk that was involved in a multi-car accident. So long as you get the story that there was 6-deaths in a car crash. Yeah! That's good gossip talk in front of the water cooler.
You can say the news media industry has built their entire delivery approach and stories covered based on the sensationalist entertainment of the masses. Basically the Jerry Springer demographics.
Go back to the news tube and see how many house fires, car crashes, robberies and see how many mothers left their babies and kids in the car. Don't worry about labels, just look for the number of deaths.
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02:28 PM
DRA Member
Posts: 4543 From: Martinez, Ga, USA Registered: Oct 1999
Well, that is why you get to set back in your recliner with the remote and call it all good. This is nothing but sensationalism and entertainment to you it appears. You are often times the first person who post on tragedy of mass homicides like this one and the Tuscon one.
But you still don't think that labels and influences matters? Was there a lone gun man at Columbine?
I guess you don't get it. You must really enjoy the local evening news. It makes no matter if the person was drunk that was involved in a multi-car accident. So long as you get the story that there was 6-deaths in a car crash. Yeah! That's good gossip talk in front of the water cooler.
You can say the news media industry has built their entire delivery approach and stories covered based on the sensationalist entertainment of the masses. Basically the Jerry Springer demographics.
Go back to the news tube and see how many house fires, car crashes, robberies and see how many mothers left their babies and kids in the car. Don't worry about labels, just look for the number of deaths.
How the hell does a Drunk driver being in an accident not a factor in the accident? That is not a "label", it is a fact, they either were drunk or they were not. How does that even relate to the conversation?
I think your getting a little over excited that I think this guy did something terrible whatever his beliefs.
What do I not get? I wanna know how by condemning the act, just like I would regardless of the perps "affilliations" , I am sensationalizing his actions? I definately do not consider such acts as entertainment, and think the "media" needs to give more facts and less speculation.
I do flip through the channels during the day, I happened across breaking news and posted, I don't post that often but if I don't see something that seems to be of international or national interest I go ahead and start a thread. Didn't realize I had an agenda, I guess it must be subconscience. I did go out yesterday and do some work in the yard, fell down and bummed my knee up pretty good. I try to get out and do some fishing occasionally, went on 1 Dove hunt last season. So yeah, I watch a lot of TV. Never watched Jerry Springer, seen some clips and just didn't have any interest. I do some reading, believe it or not, nothing to heavy but I think I probably read more than your average bear. Play guitar on occasion, but really do spend a lot of time sitting around. I do try to catch the local news, try to keep up on local issues.
A crazy psychopath will find a reason, religious, political, or otherwise. I fail to see how his actions reflect on any groups or belief he may associate himself with. Trying to understand why he did what he did seems a futile exercise to me, we want answers and we want to blame someone or something for a tragedy, but in our search we tend to look for outside influences when the responsibility lies totally on the group or individuals who commit such acts. If religion or politics had anything to do with the violence, Islam would be outlawed internationally based solely on the acts of violence committed in its name.
A Christian fundamentalist none-the-less according to Norwegian investigators.
He admitted to the heinous acts and will get 21 years in prison for his crimes.
21 years is not near enough.
And if you read his manifesto, it's hardly clear on his religious beliefs. While it's true he mentions Christianity a lot, it's always "What the Muslims did to the Jews and Christians". At one point he even talks about how Christianity effectively dominated Europe and wouldn't allow other religions in, which is exactly what he's complaining Muslims do. He makes the point that Christianity had to "adapt" to allow other religions, and Islam should too.
He also says that many Christians are "arrogant, intolerant, and vindictive".
I'm only about a tenth of the way through, maybe less, but the most telling thing I've seen that can say "He thinks he's a Christian" is that he ignores the violent passages in the Bible while talking about violence in Islam.
Regardless, he isn't a Christian. Calling yourself a Christian doesn't make you a Christian. It's actually following Christ that does, and his level of hate and bigotry obviously goes against it all, not to mention what he just did.
Originally posted by theBDub: Regardless, he isn't a Christian. Calling yourself a Christian doesn't make you a Christian. It's actually following Christ that does, and his level of hate and bigotry obviously goes against it all, not to mention what he just did.
If only some could see the fact that something similar happens in other religions too. (Not saying you specifically but it's amazing how clear the difference becomes when one is lumped in with the extremists, hey?)
If only some could see the fact that something similar happens in other religions too. (Not saying you specifically but it's amazing how clear the difference becomes when one is lumped in with the extremists, hey?)
I understand that, as I'm sure you knew I did. I agree. This is a post I put on a Facebook friend's wall when she said he was Christian:
"Muslims aren't evil. Christians aren't evil.
It's the people that use the words for personal power that are evil.
This man wasn't a Christian, no more than Bin Laden was a Muslim. They were men who thought they could use religion as a way to use people to meet their desires and fuel their hate."
I understand that, as I'm sure you knew I did. I agree. This is a post I put on a Facebook friend's wall when she said he was Christian:
"Muslims aren't evil. Christians aren't evil.
It's the people that use the words for personal power that are evil.
This man wasn't a Christian, no more than Bin Laden was a Muslim. They were men who thought they could use religion as a way to use people to meet their desires and fuel their hate."
Exactly, I know you see more than black and white Brennan.
This idiot may have called himself a Christian and even a right winger, but his actions show that he wasn't representing either correctly IMO. Unfortunatley those that like to generalize and see things in black and white can't seem to realize that this guy doesn't represent them any more than a Muslim extremist represents all Mulsims. That's why some are scrambling to try and potray this guy as something that they have no association to be it true or not.
Exactly, I know you see more than black and white Brennan.
This idiot may have called himself a Christian and even a right winger, but his actions show that he wasn't representing either correctly IMO. Unfortunatley those that like to generalize and see things in black and white can't seem to realize that this guy doesn't represent them any more than a Muslim extremist represents all Mulsims. That's why some are scrambling to try and potray this guy as something that they have no association to be it true or not.
Thank you for a good post.
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09:38 PM
Jul 25th, 2011
TheRealShadowX Member
Posts: 1456 From: Milwaukee Wisconsin USA Registered: Mar 2010
[Snip] as for facts, facts are relative, the only fact is a guy shot a lot of unarmed people and set off an explosive device that injured and killed several more. [Snip]
[Snip] What political or religious affilliations this guy had DO NOT make a difference [Snip]
That's like saying you have cancer, but the fact that you smoked your whole life makes no difference.
Without knowing the cause, how do we prevent a disease from spreading? After all, terrorists are merely a disease that need to be destroyed.