http://circlethewagons.net/...s-naivete-gone-wild/

Obama calls for Israel to withdraw to pre 1967 lines: Naiveté Gone Wild
By Nick Dial

“We believe the borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines”- President Obama, 5/19/2011.

Speak for yourself, Mr. President. While you represent the United States as a figure head, you do not have the right to serve as a mouth piece for the American people as a whole. We have a voice of our own, and Statements such as “we” and “America believes” when dealing with our dear friend Israel, and your absurd way of selling out a faithful ally is both naive and unwarranted. When dealing with radical positions that support your picture perfect view of the world such as this, try using words like “I” or “it is my opinion or position.” After all, you have had no problem using words as “I” in the many other policies you have pushed, including the killing of Bin Laden. Why start bringing us into the mix now?

President Obama’s recent position on Israel is not just naïve, it’s extremely dangerous. Apparently Obama fails to understand the fact of what the word “security” means. This president cannot commit to securing our own borders, and yet he has the audacity to lecture a nation surround by countries that vow its destruction give up their much needed buffer zones between them and the very people that want to kill them. Has this Harvard graduate never picked up a history book? Is he not aware that Israel was attacked while holding these very borders he is pushing for them to withdraw too? This president acts as if the very discontent between the Arab nations and the Jewish state of Israel hinges upon these borders, and therefore return to these borders would magically erase the hostilities the Jewish people have faced for centuries.

Between 1947 and 1948, the Palestinians took the offensive against Israel after its declaration of a state. With over 6,000 casualties, it was among the bloodiest of conflicts to take place in the region. In 1956, Israel again was attacked, this time through organized resistance to Israel, such as the PLO (Palestinian Leadership Organization. In 1967, known as the Six Day War, Israel was attacked once more, this time in a combined effort by its neighbors such as Syria, Egypt, and Jordan, and once again, Israel thwarted this assault on their nation. After the six day war, Israel had gained territories which expanded their borders. In 1973, The Yom Kippur War was launched by the Syrians and Egyptians, causing Israel again to be dragged into a defensive conflict. Also, let’s not forget the ongoing acts of terror and indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israeli neighborhoods by the Palestinians and Lebanese.

I wonder… how would Obama handle such national security issues with the U.S., if our neighbors conducted themselves in such a way? What if Canada and Mexico vowed for our destruction and were headed by Al-Qaeda? Would we stand for other nations telling us how we should conduct our national security? Perhaps we would be expected to go back to pre-Mexican American war borders and expose millions of Americans? I think not, and Israel is no exception. The pre-1967 borders would leave Israel with a very thin strip of land. Looking at the below image, you can see its narrowest point at Netanya, which is a faint 9 miles wide. Israel’s main airport would be a mere 3 miles from hostile borders, well within missile range.

What President Obama is doing, is basically stating that Israel should commit tactical suicide with their national security. Lebanon and Palestine are both headed by terrorist organizations, HAMAS, and HEZBOLLA.
Following the president’s speech, HAMAS released the following statement:

Obama’s Mideast policy speech Thursday was a “total failure,” Hamas said Thursday evening.
“The (Arab) nation does not need a lesson on democracy from Obama,” said Hamas spokesman in the Gaza Strip, Sami Abu-Zuhri. “Rather, Obama is the one who needs the lesson given his absolute endorsement of Israel’s crimes and his refusal to condemn Israel’s occupation.”

“We will not recognize the Israeli occupation under any circumstances,” the Hamas spokesman said, while adding: “We object to intervention in our internal affairs.”
Based on what HAMAS has stated, they have made it clear that the borders of 1967 are no more relevant today than they were back in 1967. The only difference HAMAS sees is the fact they will have to cross more miles to push into the heart of Israel during an invasion. When you have Arab nations that clearly state they feel as if Israel has no right to exist at all, how can this president logically expect such nations to negotiate? The only achievement this president has done by taking this position, is validate the anti-Semitic movement of hostile Arab nations toward Israel, insult a loyal ally, and do all of this while in the safety of the United States. Perhaps if the president were personally exposed to the very real dangers the Israeli people face on a daily bases, he would not be so quick to take such foolish positions on a topic he apparently knows little about… military strategy and national security.

References:

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/H...rab-Israeli+Wars.htm
http://gatewaypundit.rightn...r-any-circumstances/

[This message has been edited by NickD3.4 (edited 05-21-2011).]

Yep--he coulda said "I, and The Smart Kids believe..."

(oops--I forgot.....most of those "Smart Kids" hauled butt somewhere else before the midterm bloodletting--or right afterwarrds)

I'm waiting to see how long it takes congressional members of his own party, as well as the Party sometimes faithful to begin distancing themselves from the President's remarks on this issue.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-21-2011).]

Isn't it ironic that in most of his speeches he uses I and me hundred of times, but when he decides to sell out maybe our best ally, he says we and Americans.

[This message has been edited by partfiero (edited 05-21-2011).]

yep, I was so angry I had to write this article. What a complete ass this guys is.

quote Originally posted by partfiero: Isn't it ironic that in most of his speeches he uses I and me hundred of times, but when he decides to sell out maybe our best ally, he says we and Americans.

You noticed that too, huh?

The arrogance and stupidity of this man are beyond words.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: You noticed that too, huh?

Though he is not the first president to step in it this way, I once heard some one say that you should never make love or peace in public, those things should be done behind closed doors.

Yeah, thats why I wrote
"When dealing with radical positions that support your picture perfect view of the world such as this, try using words like “I” or “it is my opinion or position.” After all, you have had no problem using words as “I” in the many other policies you have pushed, including the killing of Bin Laden. Why start bringing us into the mix now?"

what a dick. I think he cut his throat with the Jewish vote.

quote Originally posted by NickD3.4: Yeah, thats why I wrote "When dealing with radical positions that support your picture perfect view of the world such as this, try using words like “I” or “it is my opinion or position.” After all, you have had no problem using words as “I” in the many other policies you have pushed, including the killing of Bin Laden. Why start bringing us into the mix now?" what a dick. I think he cut his throat with the Jewish vote.

When I was a freshman in high school we had to write a short story in my English class.
Mine was about a guy who was insane who ran for president and got elected. He was able to mask his insanity.
Think my story just got removed from the fiction category.

[This message has been edited by partfiero (edited 05-21-2011).]

As far as I can tell the position of Israel and Palestine going back to the 1967 borders WITH agreements to section out certain land masses has been a common starting point for peace talks between the Israelis and Palistinians.

What is it you would like to see?? Do the Palestinians not deserve land of their own?

I notice you quoted Hamas as a sopurce of criticism of Obama's speech. You do realize that both the U.S. and Israel do not recognize hamas as anything but a terrorist organization and Obama stated so in his speech correct?

Why do people suddenly not see a role for the U.S. in Israeli / Palastinian peace talk? It's been going on for decades.

And, for decades, not very successfully.

Sure-- the Palestinians deserve to live anywhere they are strong enough to live. If they can shove the Jews out of Israel, the West Bank and Gaza, they are welcome to it. Canada is also welcome to offer them (all of them) a home in any of their lands as well, but i have a sneakin suspicion, that won't be forthcoming either, but you can press your parlament to do so if that's a big concern.
I'm pretty certain you'd be more than willing to give up Newfoundland or oil rich Alberta for them--wouldn't ya?

Or not.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: And, for decades, not very successfully. Sure-- the Palestinians deserve to live anywhere they are strong enough to live. If they can shove the Jews out of Israel, the West Bank and Gaza, they are welcome to it. Canada is also welcome to offer them (all of them) a home in any of their lands as well, but i have a sneakin suspicion, that won't be forthcoming either, but you can press your parlament to do so if that's a big concern. I'm pretty certain you'd be more than willing to give up Newfoundland or oil rich Alberta for them--wouldn't ya? Or not.

Not a big concern of mine at all. It's more interesting in a world politics sort of thing to me.

Like I said I think the displaced Arabs should have a homeland just as I think the Jewish people should. As for where the borders are and how much land etc. I leave that to the politicians to figure out, that's partly what they are for.

Most people here seem more concerned with what Obama said and trying to find fault with it than the actual issue at hand but then that's what many people are all about.

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 05-21-2011).]

Newf, before you embarass yourself look up the original treaty and what was behind it.
The "Jews" were given crap land and granted in "48" the State of Israel. I'd ask you to cite how many times Israel has been under attack since then but pretty sure there is a text limit on posts.
That said, Eff it. Let Israel deal with it's own problems, and the "quasi state Palestinians figure this out on their own. (Hezbolla will launch rocket and suicide bomber attacks, Israel will bomb them again
a. Not our problem
b. Not our problem, cut funding to the region.

quote Originally posted by newf: As far as I can tell the position of Israel and Palestine going back to the 1967 borders WITH agreements to section out certain land masses has been a common starting point for peace talks between the Israelis and Palistinians. What is it you would like to see?? Do the Palestinians not deserve land of their own? I notice you quoted Hamas as a sopurce of criticism of Obama's speech. You do realize that both the U.S. and Israel do not recognize hamas as anything but a terrorist organization and Obama stated so in his speech correct? Why do people suddenly not see a role for the U.S. in Israeli / Palastinian peace talk? It's been going on for decades.

are you really that blind? why did I quote Hamas saying Obamas speech on 1967 border was a failure? Because HAMAS said with their own words they DON'T CARE! They will not recognize Israel,... 1967 borders or not. They disproved this silly idea that doing such a thing could bring any progress.

I am amazed you don't understand that.

[This message has been edited by NickD3.4 (edited 05-21-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Uaana: Newf, before you embarass yourself look up the original treaty and what was behind it. The "Jews" were given crap land and granted in "48" the State of Israel. I'd ask you to cite how many times Israel has been under attack since then but pretty sure there is a text limit on posts. That said, Eff it. Let Israel deal with it's own problems, and the "quasi state Palestinians figure this out on their own. (Hezbolla will launch rocket and suicide bomber attacks, Israel will bomb them again a. Not our problem b. Not our problem, cut funding to the region.

Why would I embarrass my self by having an opinion? Were there not Arabs displaced by the formation of Israel, Am I supposed to be embarrassed because I think they have a right to a homeland no matter how wrong I think certain people have been in their attempts to gain it?

Cite how many times the Israeli's have been under attack? Why?

Eff it? Sure, easy to say but U.S. foriegn policy would have to shift completely for that to happen and by the looks of what has been posted thus far plenty of people seem to care about what goes on in the Middle East and the U.S. role in it.

quote Originally posted by newf: Cite how many times the Israeli's have been under attack? Why?

on a weekly basis or large scale attack such as Yom Kippur?

The one I remember most vividly was Sept 5 1972.

Why were they attacked? They are considered infidels.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-21-2011).]

quote Originally posted by newf: AFAIK U.S. foreign policy is that they don't recognize Hamas so I'm unsure why their opinion of Obama's speech would matter. You seem to have a opinion on the situation, what borders would you like to see put in place? Surely your post is not just another "whatever Obama says is wrong" is it?

why does HAMAS's opinion matter?.........gee..perhaps because HAMAS is elected head government of the Palestinians. Just because we don't consider them to be "legitimate" doesn't mean what they say doesn't matter.

How can you sit here and say I'm just posting against anything Obama says? Obama said they should go back to the pre 1967 borders, HAMAS, which heads the Palestinians, says they don't care what the borders are. They said they will kill the Jews and go after Israel no matter what the borders are, pre 1967 or not.

So, now that we know Israels enemies don't give a **** about the border, and state they will kill them anyway, your really going to sit here and wonder why what HAMAS says matters? You really cant figure out that "negotiating" peace based on border lines with people who don't care about the border lines, they only care about destroying Israel wont matter?

the borders are fine where they stand. guess what...you pick a fight with a country, you get your ass kicked, you may lose some land from the deal. They attacked Israel, Israel won the land fairly, and they have secured it for added security. You want to sit here and cry a river for the "poor" displaced Palestinians? lol, please.

THEY DON"T CARE ABOUT THE BORDER. THEY SIMPLY WANT TO DESTROY ISRAEL. seriously newf, how can you be this dense? I feel like I'm trying to educate a monkey on foreign diplomacy.

[This message has been edited by NickD3.4 (edited 05-21-2011).]

Nick, Were you ignorant of the fact this was Bush policy also?
If not , Why did you not get your panties in a wad then.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: And, for decades, not very successfully. Sure-- the Palestinians deserve to live anywhere they are strong enough to live. If they can shove the Jews out of Israel, the West Bank and Gaza, they are welcome to it. Canada is also welcome to offer them (all of them) a home in any of their lands as well, but i have a sneakin suspicion, that won't be forthcoming either, but you can press your parlament to do so if that's a big concern. I'm pretty certain you'd be more than willing to give up Newfoundland or oil rich Alberta for them--wouldn't ya? Or not.

DECADES ??...the jews and arabs have been at war over land fro MILLENIA...it aint gonna change any time soon. My position is arm them all to the teeth, isolate the region and let them fight it out, and the survivors get to keep the land, then resume relations with the area. I also do gotta figgure, that if it aint been sorted out in THAT long, there is a reason for it.

If a guy has a gun to your head and says he's going to shoot you whether you give him your wallet or not, do you timidly hand over your wallet and get down on your knees, or do you keep the wallet and try to turn the gun on the guy? Or do you say "I don't recognize your gun as a real gun, so I'm just going to go about my life as though you weren't here"..? Will that make the bullet do any less damage? If he has that gun at a friend's head instead, do you turn around and walk away, or do you aim your gun right back at the bad guy and keep the "Mexican standoff" going while trying to come up with a way to win the situation?

quote Originally posted by partfiero: Isn't it ironic that in most of his speeches he uses I and me hundred of times, but when he decides to sell out maybe our best ally, he says we and Americans.

That was my first thought too.

quote Originally posted by newf: I notice you quoted Hamas as a sopurce of criticism of Obama's speech. You do realize that both the U.S. and Israel do not recognize hamas as anything but a terrorist organization and Obama stated so in his speech correct?

Do you realize that the Palestine people recognize Hamas and Fatah as essential to the state hopes of a Palestine?

quote Originally posted by newf: Not a big concern of mine at all. It's more interesting in a world politics sort of thing to me.

Looky here guys. Another one of those "not in my backyard" folks.

quote Originally posted by newf: Like I said I think the displaced Arabs should have a homeland just as I think the Jewish people should.

You have multiple times, alluded to he fact that there are displaced Arabs. Hundreds of thousands I think you said one time. No one came in and stole their land. How did they get displaced ?
Ooohh ooohh, I know ...

quote Originally posted by newf: As for where the borders are and how much land etc. I leave that to the politicians to figure out, that's partly what they are for.

... the politicians, as you call them, decided to take Israel and make it within their borders. How is that working out for your argument ?

quote Originally posted by Uaana: The "Jews" were given crap land and granted in "48" the State of Israel.

That they were. Yet, they made it one of the most prosperous nations on Earth. Shaming the prophet of Islam.
I am also for a Palestine state. 'Cept if the want autonomy, it can not be on the backs of Israel. The truth is, that they have land. Yet they can not prosper. They have to, they demand that, they should be allowed to work and make a living in Israel, . Newf, you said something about politicians ? Mexico's politicians can't make a prosperous nation even though they have natural resources including oil.

quote Originally posted by newf: Most people here seem more concerned with what Obama said and trying to find fault with it than the actual issue at hand but then that's what many people are all about.

That's a pretty narrow view. The actual issue, as you call it, predates Nobama.

quote Originally posted by newf: You seem to have a opinion on the situation, what borders would you like to see put in place?

The borders as they are now are just fine. Can you name one thing wrong with them ? Displaced people you say ? They have a pillow at night. They have homes. Some of them homes do get bulldozed down when members of that family carry out suicide/homicide terrorist attacks, but hey ... every time they attack they lose more.
Actually, the borders as they are now, are not good enough. Israel gave some land back, in the interest of peace. Only to be attacked from the land they gave back. Proof that you can not negotiate with terrorists, as Nobama advocates.

quote Originally posted by Wolfhound: Nick, Were you ignorant of the fact this was Bush policy also?

Not that I remember Coy. At most, Bush and other Presidents, entertained the thought though none voiced it, giving legitimacy to terroristic desires. It reminds me of the mindset of liberal America, circa 1935, when we had Nazi parades. Here, right here in America, American people marched with the American flag and the Nazi flag. You can not appease the evil and the wicked.

quote Originally posted by NickD3.4: THEY DON"T CARE ABOUT THE BORDER. THEY SIMPLY WANT TO DESTROY ISRAEL. seriously newf, how can you be this dense? I feel like I'm trying to educate a monkey on foreign diplomacy.

I always forget THEY are all the same. Sorry...ooh eee ooooh eeeee aaaah aahhh

The Palestinians are an embarrassment to most Arabs. I have friends who are Arab, and that is exactly how they see it.

The Jordanians don't really want them. The King of Jordan, a direct decendent of the Prophet Mohamed sees his responsibility to be benevolent to them. But, he turned the Israelies down flat when they offered him the West Bank. He didn't want the headache.

Palestinians who live in Israel have full human rights, voting rights, and the right to own land. In Arab nations, all of these rights are virtually non-existent except for the privileged few. In fact, Israel is the only democratic free state in the area.

Cutting out a land for the Palestinians will mean land from Jordan, Israel and likely Syria, and maybe even Saudi Arabia. The country will be a hotbed of terrorism. You think we have a problem with Al Qaeda? Given opportunity the Palestinians will make them look like choir boys.

This is no easy fix. Obama is absolutely foolish. He is looking for scoring points with the Jewish vote in the eastern states. He doesn't give a you-know-what for Israel.

There is no concrete plan to fix the problem. And negotiated plans are generally bad outcomes. Just look at World War I post war settlements and World War II land settlements. There needs to be a solution found, but Obama isn't the man to do it.

Arn

A few years ago, a friend and I were sitting at a light in downtown Spokane. A guy holding a singn stood at the corner. The day was very hot, and this dude was about to colapse. I really felt bad for him. But, no way in hell is he getting a dime form me. Instead, I opened my window, and handed him my fresh, cold bottle of Mountain Dew, and a cigarette. The look on his face was well worth the couple of dollars that went his way.

Kevin and I started a brief conversation about bums, homeless, and those that are on the streets. A few lights later, we were at the same precipice. A guy on a corner holding a sign. But this time, this time the cat was wasted. Appeared methed out, or drunk. But more than likely methed out. As we sat discussing the possibilities of me helping this guy out, he fell on his face directly in front of my car! Blamm! All I saw was a dusty blur, then no more rockstar. Dude was O.U.T. I actually had to back up a few feet to bypass this speed bump.

Kevin asked my why I was so nice to the guy 3 minutes earlier, but a dick to the guy in probable mediacal need. I told him this, "You can't help everyone."

My point is this, take care of this nation, before we take care of any other nation. I couldn't even comprehend the amount of monetary support that we pump into things like this. Today I am eating well, but it was not too long ago that I was going hungry. Feed our kids first. If there is anything left over, then let..... yeah right? Money left over. Whew. I almost wrote that?

Tony

quote Nick, Were you ignorant of the fact this was Bush policy also?

Source?

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Source?

You mean something like this?

quote While Mr Bush wrote a letter in 2004 saying Israel should not have to give back the large Jewish population centres in the West Bank, yesterday's statement went much further. ''There should be an end to the occupation that began in 1967," he said. ''The agreement must establish Palestine as a homeland for the Palestinian people, just as Israel is a homeland for the Jewish people.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...lestinian-state.html

Oh wait...let me use your standard emoticon as well

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 05-21-2011).]

quote Originally posted by newf: You mean something like this?

Linky no worky. Wrote a letter to who ?

quote While Mr Bush wrote a letter in 2004 saying Israel should not have to give back the large Jewish population centres in the West Bank, yesterday's statement went much further. ''There should be an end to the occupation that began in 1967," he said. ''The agreement must establish Palestine as a homeland for the Palestinian people, just as Israel is a homeland for the Jewish people.

Heh ... Bush says, Nobama says, he said she said.
Bush never made that case. Nobama is.

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 05-21-2011).]

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Heh ... Bush says, Nobama says, he said she said. Bush never made that case. Nobama is.

I suspect your copy and paste ability no worky.

Oh, so Bush never made any comments on the Israeli / Palestinian issue? This must be another thing forced on the American people by Obama.

quote Originally posted by newf: I suspect your copy and paste ability no worky.

Perhaps I should ask avengador1 for lessons, .
I am more of a Karate Kid guy. Click on, click off, . I do supply the clickies when I want someone to consider them. I don't get paid to cut and paste, .

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Perhaps I should ask avengador1 for lessons, . I am more of a Karate Kid guy. Click on, click off, . I do supply the clickies when I want someone to consider them. I don't get paid to cut and paste, .

Fixed it, ya lazy bugger

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: DECADES ??...the jews and arabs have been at war over land fro MILLENIA...it aint gonna change any time soon. My position is arm them all to the teeth, isolate the region and let them fight it out, and the survivors get to keep the land, then resume relations with the area. I also do gotta figgure, that if it aint been sorted out in THAT long, there is a reason for it.

I was quite clearly posting in reply to someone else's post which referred to the US policy on MidEast negotiations toward a peace accord. Yes--it is in decades--not hundreds of years. Israel as a modern state, has only been in existance since 1947--approx 6.5 decades. We (USA) have only been actively involved in pursuing a peace accord for about 4 decades + or -.

People don't realize, that the borders Obama called for, have already been in place once. Those borders resulted in the entire massing of the Arab world's military might right on Israel's back door.
"Threaten me once--shame on you. Threaten me twice--shame on me"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

No nation on earth would willingly place themselves back into that precarious and vulnerable position.



Israel is no exception and I doubt anyone is surprised at Netanyahu's terse reply and refusal.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Source?

Bush,

"Any final status agreement must be reached between the two parties, and changes to the 1949 Armistice Lines must be mutually agreed to. A viable two-state solution must ensure contiguity on the West Bank, and a state of scattered territories will not work. There must also be meaningful linkages between the West Bank and Gaza. This is the position of the United States today; it will be the position of the United States at the time of final status negotiations.

The imminent Israeli disengagement from Gaza, parts of the West Bank, presents an opportunity to lay the groundwork for a return to the roadmap. All parties have a responsibility to make this hopeful moment in the region a new and peaceful beginning. That is why I assigned General Kip Ward, who is with us today, to support your efforts, Mr. President, to reform the Palestinian security services and to coordinate the efforts of the international community to make that crucial task a success. The United States also strongly supports the mission of the Quartet's special envoy, Jim Wolfensohn, to make sure that the Gaza disengagement brings Palestinians a better life."
[Press Conference with Presidents Bush and Abbas, 5/26/05]

Bare in mind the 1949-1967 is the same as the 1967 border

Other similar statements can be found if you wish to look for them.

quote Originally posted by newf: Not a big concern of mine at all. It's more interesting in a world politics sort of thing to me. Like I said I think the displaced Arabs should have a homeland just as I think the Jewish people should. As for where the borders are and how much land etc. I leave that to the politicians to figure out, that's partly what they are for. Most people here seem more concerned with what Obama said and trying to find fault with it than the actual issue at hand but then that's what many people are all about.

Well, honestly... Israel had it's own borders, and the nomadic arabs decided to attack (no different than they do now, or what they did before 1095 AD).

Isreal said... the hell with you, you're not going to attack us, so they pushed their borders out... that happens... maybe they should have thought about that before attacking Israel? Apparently, they didn't learn their lessons. The real issue here is that it doesn't really matter what borders there are. Until Hamas has all of Israel, they will continue to do the same thing they're doing now.

EDIT: I think you're starting to suffer from Stockholm's Syndrome... remember, the Palestinians started the war, and Israel ended it... and apparnetly Hamas isn't happy about it. I'd have to harken back to the phrase that my good buddies Neptune and RayB had for Republicans after the 2008 election, and suggest this to the Palestines... "guess they'll just have to eat a **** sandwich and learn to like it..."

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 05-21-2011).]

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Well, honestly... Israel had it's own borders, and the nomadic arabs decided to attack (no different than they do now, or what they did before 1095 AD). Isreal said... the hell with you, you're not going to attack us, so they pushed their borders out... that happens... maybe they should have thought about that before attacking Israel? Apparently, they didn't learn their lessons. The real issue here is that it doesn't really matter what borders there are. Until Hamas has all of Israel, they will continue to do the same thing they're doing now. EDIT: I think you're starting to suffer from Stockholm's Syndrome... remember, the Palestinians started the war, and Israel ended it... and apparnetly Hamas isn't happy about it. I'd have to harken back to the phrase that my good buddies Neptune and RayB had for Republicans after the 2008 election, and suggest this to the Palestines... "guess they'll just have to eat a **** sandwich and learn to like it..."

Good God do you even know what Stockholm syndrome is?

I think you are suffering from verbal diarrhea.

Instead of continuing to go on and on about what HAS happened why not make a stand and say if you agree with a homeland for the Palestinians or not?

quote Originally posted by Wolfhound: Nick, Were you ignorant of the fact this was Bush policy also? If not , Why did you not get your panties in a wad then.

Bush never made it his policy to go back to the pre-1967 border lines, while he thought about the possibility, he later retracted and said it was not a realistic option. in fact, he had a written promise to Israel that we would back them up and never request they return to those borders. Obama took that promise made by Bush in 2004, and tore it up. Want proof?...
http://www.israelnationalne...ews/News.aspx/131734

"Former President George W. Bush, in a letter to former Prime Minister Ariel Sharon in 2004, wrote, "In light of new realities on the ground, including already existing major Israeli populations centers, it is unrealistic to expect that the outcome of final status negotiations will be a full and complete return to the armistice lines of 1949, and all previous efforts to negotiate a two-state solution have reached the same conclusion. I remain committed to my June 24, 2002 vision of two states living side by side in peace and security as the key to peace, and to the road map as the route to get there…. Under the road map, Palestinians must undertake an immediate cessation of armed activity and all acts of violence against Israelis anywhere, and all official Palestinian institutions must end incitement against Israel…."

So Bush not only said it was not realistic for Israel to return to its original borders, he said the Palestinians must end their armed aggression as well, something that Obama should should have been focusing on!

Am I ignorant to Bush's policies on this? .....nope. Apparently you are though...Bush having the same position as Obama?...not even close. Do your research before pulling out big words like "ignorant"

[This message has been edited by NickD3.4 (edited 05-21-2011).]