Taxpayers on the hook for $3 trillion in government pensions.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/0...sion_funds/index.htm

OK, leftists, how are we going to get out of this one?

i like how the artical basically says that a few changes could cut that to around $1trillion....but acts like removing only $2trillion of the debt is nothing... yeah, a trillion is left, but its a lot less than 3...

Most are union govt jobs--you think they are gonna stand still for those "few changes" to be implemented? Not a chance in hades.

Can't we just tax the rich out of this mess? Sure--that's the ticket-or just pass it on to our grandchildren--again. Great plan, ias long as one has no children thus no grandchildren to worry about.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Most are union govt jobs--you think they are gonna stand still for those "few changes" to be implemented? Not a chance in hades. Can't we just tax the rich out of this mess? Sure--that's the ticket-or just pass it on to our grandchildren--again. Great plan, ias long as one has no children thus no grandchildren to worry about.

I don't have any children, and I'm worried about the *short term* future.

Oh, come on. The solution is so obvious. Just renege on the pension deal, all the union government employess go on strike, and we don't have to pay them any more!

When the government shuts down because of budget probelms, do you REALLY notice anything? Just hire scabs to replce them at half the cost. Worked for the Air Traffic Controllers.

Problem solved!

quote Originally posted by Zeb: Oh, come on. The solution is so obvious. Just renege on the pension deal, all the union government employess go on strike, and we don't have to pay them any more! When the government shuts down because of budget probelms, do you REALLY notice anything? Just hire scabs to replce them at half the cost. Worked for the Air Traffic Controllers. Problem solved!

They give out all OUR money to illegal aliens. Of course were going to run out. Throw the f*&%#rs out. That goes for all pensions, welfare, assistance that there are.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Most are union govt jobs--you think they are gonna stand still for those "few changes" to be implemented? Not a chance in hades. Can't we just tax the rich out of this mess? Sure--that's the ticket-or just pass it on to our grandchildren--again. Great plan, ias long as one has no children thus no grandchildren to worry about.

To be fair, if it was my retirement that was guaranteed to me that they were mucking about with, id not stand still either, regardless of who i was working for.

Definately .... if shes here illegally, it dont matter who shes working for. She shouldnt get a dime. She should be thrown out and whoever hired her thrown out with her.

If shes here legally, shes paying into it and deserves to get it back when she retires.

Maybe I read it wrong but I think this applies to state pension funds. Not all states are liberal states (Colorado is overwhelmingly conservative) so to me, the answer is to work with your legislature. I don't think that would work in California since that is the liberal capital of the US.

With respect to Federal Government workers, the American Federation of Government Employees is a toothless entitity. By law, Government workers can't strike, they have little recourse with respect to management poor decisions and government pensions are a cooperative affair passed in the US Congress. I contributed to my pension, the money was invested and I reap the benefit of about $600 a month. If you don't like government employees, write your congressmember and get it changed.

Government wages were tied to inflation along with the military pay and pension plan by Ronald Reagan and passed in Congress. Again, write your congressmember and get it changed. But leave my $600 alone--I use some of it to work on my Notchie and besides, I paid into the system for nearly 20 years.

quote Originally posted by starlightcoupe: I paid into the system for nearly 20 years.

Which of course, is everyone's attitude, and I understand it, but exactly how do you--or anyone else intend to have the US Treasury pay out $2-$3 trillion that doesn't exist-since the actual article explains clearly, that the states don't have the money--thus it will fall to the Federal Govt to take care of it??

I'd like to hear an answer other than "just leave mine alone".
anybody?

quote Originally posted by fierobear: OK, leftists, how are we going to get out of this one?

Liberal scum bags

I believe that the individual states need to address this on their own. Each state made their own deal with their own workers and they really need to examine the sweetheart pension packages they promised.

Some states are perfectly fine with their pension plans, why should all all the tax payers across the country have to pay for the mistakes of a couple of states? Doesn't sound fair to me especially when many of those pension plans pay out more than what I make slugging it out at 50 plus hours a week.

Making the states handle it on their own would force them into fiscal reality and accountability.

I don't want to sound uncaring or unsympathetic, look at my paycheck witholding, there's not much left for me, probably never afford to retire at this rate.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: So you want to penalize the poor clerk that worked her entire life expecting that pension to live on, just beacuse she was working for the citizens?

Nothing is guaranteed in life. It's called the real world. Should the clerk be penalize? You mean should the government clerk be paid a pension on the backs of every one else in the private sector, just because that clerk was a government employee?

Should a clerk who worked for Enron for 25 years recieve a pension from the taxpayers? Why not? Don't penalize him for working for Enron.

quote Originally posted by solotwo: Liberal scum bags

Should we start a pool on when someone like Neptune shows up and drops some smartass comment?

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Definately .... if shes here illegally, it dont matter who shes working for. She shouldnt get a dime. She should be thrown out and whoever hired her thrown out with her. If shes here legally, shes paying into it and deserves to get it back when she retires.

I didn't see anything about illegal employees in the story. Did i miss something?

quote Originally posted by jetman: I believe that the individual states need to address this on their own. Each state made their own deal with their own workers and they really need to examine the sweetheart pension packages they promised. Some states are perfectly fine with their pension plans, why should all all the tax payers across the country have to pay for the mistakes of a couple of states? Doesn't sound fair to me especially when many of those pension plans pay out more than what I make slugging it out at 50 plus hours a week. Making the states handle it on their own would force them into fiscal reality and accountability. I don't want to sound uncaring or unsympathetic, look at my paycheck witholding, there's not much left for me, probably never afford to retire at this rate.

Interesting, considering the US Taxpayer has already bailed out and made nealry whole, the pension plan of your biggest? industry.
I'm curious-----------how much TOTAL US Taxpayer bailout money has YOUR state(Michigan) already recieved??

Now, you know how the rest of us feel about having to bail out your industries.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 08-21-2010).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Which of course, is everyone's attitude, and I understand it, but exactly how do you--or anyone else intend to have the US Treasury pay out $2-$3 trillion that doesn't exist-since the actual article explains clearly, that the states don't have the money--thus it will fall to the Federal Govt to take care of it?? I'd like to hear an answer other than "just leave mine alone". anybody?

Well, WTF? Take it. And while you're at it, write your Congressman and tell them to go after my 80% disability and Army retirement. Damn, I am a triple dipper and only contributed to one system. And to think Saint Ronnie Reagan made my largesse possible. Oh damn, I almost forgot about Saint GW Bush. He passed a bill through his Republican controlled congress for Combat Related Special Compensation (nontaxable) to close the gap between half pay for military retirees. I get that too! At the same time, Saint Bush proposed to make veterans pay for their care at VA hospitals.

With any kind of luck, I'll die within the next few years (I am 72 with a bad heart) and you won't have me to support any longer. BTW, the Democratic controlled Colorado legislature cut state retirement benefits to try to stay within budget and also froze their COLA.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Interesting, considering the US Taxpayer has already bailed out and made nealry whole, the pension plan of your biggest? industry. I'm curious-----------how much TOTAL US Taxpayer bailout money has YOUR state(Michigan) already recieved?? Now, you know how the rest of us feel about having to bail out your industries.

I'm not being argumentive, that is a very good question. I do not know how much was a pension bailout or how much were government guaranteed loans being paid back? I honestly do not know.

Back to the original article, pension funds in at least seven states could dry up in 10 years, and 31 states might be in trouble in 20 years. Knowing this in advance, do we backstop the states irresponsible pension spending with a guarantee of tax payer funds when they fail?

If you force the states to make the hard choices now, you'll not only avoid a tax payer bailout but the programs will be stronger for it going forward.

If ya all haven't figured it out, we're just a bunch of "Slaves", Government doesn't care about us, and they certainly don't what us to get rich so we could order them what to do. Just about everybody I know that lost a job in the last couple years, has had to re-enter the work force at a 20 to 50% reduction in pay/benefits. If that's typical per State here in the USA, then the recovery is no where near in sight, and this is just the beginning of a Major Depression thanks to Obama, even the next guy in is going to have a terrible mess to deal with.

My point is the government, whether it be state, city, or feds, gives illegals so much free money, theres nothing left to divide up among people who are citizens that deserve it. Now that I retired from all the crap, i guarantee that some dirtbag illegal mexicans doing roofing jobs, are getting government housing, food and medical care and makes more money than me. If they didnt give them anything and kicked them out, they could double or tripple what I get and still be saving money. Id do better if I denounced US citizenship, became a mexican citizen, then moved back here illegally, LOL.

quote Originally posted by starlightcoupe: Well, WTF? Take it. And while you're at it, write your Congressman and tell them to go after my 80% disability and Army retirement. Damn, I am a triple dipper and only contributed to one system. And to think Saint Ronnie Reagan made my largesse possible. Oh damn, I almost forgot about Saint GW Bush. He passed a bill through his Republican controlled congress for Combat Related Special Compensation (nontaxable) to close the gap between half pay for military retirees. I get that too! At the same time, Saint Bush proposed to make veterans pay for their care at VA hospitals. With any kind of luck, I'll die within the next few years (I am 72 with a bad heart) and you won't have me to support any longer. BTW, the Democratic controlled Colorado legislature cut state retirement benefits to try to stay within budget and also froze their COLA.

Calm down Richard.
There is no question that the benefits are earned.
Again, my question is how to pay for pensions when there is no money?
At some point, a line will have to be drawn--we just can't keep pushing enormous debt off onto our grandchildren--they've done nothing to deserve it. For many people, Social Security IS their retirement pension plan. I'm 60 now. If they announce monday morning that there will be no more new members added to the SS beneficiary rolls, I'm good with that as long as they also say from that day forward, no one will have to pay into it--as I did my whole life. I don't want my grandkids and kids to have to foot the bill for my old age--or anyone else to either.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 08-21-2010).]

I am ok with stopping all SSI and the like. I stop paying in, everyone stops collecting it. Then we cancel all welfare programs. Medacaid and medacare go too. Then get rid of bases in foreign nations. Bring our troops home. Let's focus on our backyard before we start fixing up the neighbors houses. Next time there is a natural disaster somewhere else in the world, let the rest of the world deal with it. Philanthropy is one thing, but people are going hungry in our nation because we have to maintain status quo. I think it is BS. Make people accountable for their actions. Spend their money wisely. Run their businesses wisely. Stop bailing people out who make bad decisions. It is time for the US nation to grow up and stop expecting mommy and daddy government to come any time things get rough.


EDIT

I see someone is pissed about military benefits. I actually think we need military and we need to take care of the people who put their lives on the line to defend our country. It is absurd to me that politicians are so much better rewarded than the men and women who protect my freedoms. I say stop paying the people who keep imposing on my freedoms so heavily.

EDIT 2

I do think we need to offer some free services though. Every person over about 6 or so NEEDS a cell phone. Also high speed internet of some sort should be offered to everyone in the country. As well as a laptop to connect to that high speed internet. I think government should have ice cream socials too, you know like a meet and greet for politicians and their constituents.

[This message has been edited by ls3mach (edited 08-21-2010).]

quote Originally posted by ls3mach: I do think we need to offer some free services though. Every person over about 6 or so NEEDS a cell phone. Also high speed internet of some sort should be offered to everyone in the country. As well as a laptop to connect to that high speed internet. I think government should have ice cream socials too, you know like a meet and greet for politicians and their constituents.

Hopefully you're kidding. (I think you are, but just in case...)

There is already free internet. It's at the library. Or any wi-fi hotspot coffeeshop in America. Cell phones are important, I agree there, but if you don't have a phone, you don't have a phone. (The same argument could be made for a govt. supplied auto to get to and from work, especially in areas without public transportation.)

quote Originally posted by Flamberge: Hopefully you're kidding. (I think you are, but just in case...) There is already free internet. It's at the library. Or any wi-fi hotspot coffeeshop in America. Cell phones are important, I agree there, but if you don't have a phone, you don't have a phone. (The same argument could be made for a govt. supplied auto to get to and from work, especially in areas without public transportation.)

Are you putting me on? Cellular phones aren't important. They, like the internet, cars, computers and thousands things are not necessities. If you can't get to work from where you live either move closer or work somewhere else. This is exactly what I mean. Life should be about struggles and trails and tribulation. You get stronger only by having to try.

I think we might need a huge epidemic and a real depression. I wish I had half of the backbone and integrity and pride in my country and many other traits that my forefathers had. I want this PC America gone.

quote Originally posted by ls3mach: Are you putting me on? Cellular phones aren't important. They, like the internet, cars, computers and thousands things are not necessities. If you can't get to work from where you live either move closer or work somewhere else. This is exactly what I mean. Life should be about struggles and trails and tribulation. You get stronger only by having to try. I think we might need a huge epidemic and a real depression. I wish I had half of the backbone and integrity and pride in my country and many other traits that my forefathers had. I want this PC America gone.

I'm not debating what you are saying. But if you want a job, it is tough without a way for an employer to contact you. But no, the government should not provide it, and if you can't afford one, you can't afford one. Simple as that.

There's an old proverb that says "Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without." I think that is a wise philosophy.

Good discussion here.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Should we start a pool on when someone like Neptune shows up and drops some smartass comment?

I'm in.
Never. They wouldn't dare. They don't have the guts neither. Now, a dumbass comment ? They're the smart kids. I would bet on it but still doubt it.

quote Originally posted by jetman: I believe that the individual states need to address this on their own. Each state made their own deal with their own workers and they really need to examine the sweetheart pension packages they promised. Some states are perfectly fine with their pension plans, why should all all the tax payers across the country have to pay for the mistakes of a couple of states? Doesn't sound fair to me especially when many of those pension plans pay out more than what I make slugging it out at 50 plus hours a week. Making the states handle it on their own would force them into fiscal reality and accountability.

Great post.

quote Originally posted by jetman: If you force the states to make the hard choices now, you'll not only avoid a tax payer bailout but the programs will be stronger for it going forward.

Nice follow up.

quote Originally posted by starlightcoupe: Maybe I read it wrong but I think this applies to state pension funds. Not all states are liberal states (Colorado is overwhelmingly conservative) so to me, the answer is to work with your legislature. I don't think that would work in California since that is the liberal capital of the US.

Work with your legislator ? State or Federal ? Like there is enough time, . A needy State legislator will not even try to turn down the money. Neither would a needy Federal State elected legislature.
Look, the problem is obvious. Socialism fails. It is what got us into this mess.

What the article failed to mention is that all of those employees were forced to contribute into these systems with the promise that some day they would have money during retirement. It also failed to mention that these retirement systems are often raided to balance budgets and pay for government programs.

Having been forced to pay into Social Security for the past 35 years and into the teacher retirement system for the past 24 years, you can bet that I'll be expecting something in return for the thousands I've poured into the systems. As I've been forced to pay in the past, I'll be expecting others to pay in the future.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Should we start a pool on when someone like Neptune shows up and drops some smartass comment?

Why would he? Is this a democratic policy only, is it only a problem now because they are in power? Was this not also forseen during the last administration and probably the ones before that?
Does anyone have any answers to what happened and why this fund is actually failing? Is there any ideas on what to do to solve the problem from either side?

quote Originally posted by carnut122: What the article failed to mention..... ...you can bet that I'll be expecting something in return for the thousands I've poured into the systems. As I've been forced to pay in the past, I'll be expecting others to pay in the future.

I'll gladly take my losses now. The system is screwed. I do not wish to perpetuate it.
Every day I wake up. I do not ask anybody for anything. Much less your grand kids. I am pissed too. The money should be there. I have come through thick and thin before. I will again.
Socialism fails.

You keep saying socialism fails and I'm not in total disagreement that true socailism has it's share of problems but what about the countries that are thriving with systems that you would classify as socialist or worse?

Time to make rayb's eyes pop out...

Watch Out, More Government 'Stimulus' is Coming

Hold on to your hats. The White House is using its summer break to cook up another round of major government meddling in the economy. That's because they're panicking.

We first talked about panic setting in at the White House a couple of months ago. Now it's reaching a fever pitch. And here's why.

The folks in the White House are true believers. They really believed that bigger government could solve our economic problems. So when businesses didn't start hiring after the huge, trillion- dollar stimulus bet, there was massive confusion. But since they are true believers, they're not going to stop. They're going to spend even more…or try to. And as bad as things are now, they could get much worse if the administration doubles down on its bet on big government. That's not to say that we don't need a radical solution. But we've got a different radical in mind.

Our radical is Ronald Reagan. When Reagan became president, he radically altered an economy that was at least as bad as the one we're in right now. He pushed back the expansion of government that preceded him in the Carter years. He didn't believe that Carter's creation of a new Department of Education would improve our kids' test scores or make our schools more efficient, and he was right. He didn't believe Carter's claim that a new Department of Energy would help wean us off of foreign oil, and he was right. He believed in a safety net, but not one that suffocated growth or innovation.

Most of all, Reagan had the same radical view of government that our founders had: That government is the problem, not the solution; that policies should be developed to keep government out of our lives, not give government control over our lives; that the way to turn our economy and our spirits around was to put our faith in the individual, not the state.

So he cut regulations and cut tax rates dramatically...and as soon as the tax cuts kicked in, we had seven straight years of extraordinary economic growth. Between 1982 and 1989, 19 million new jobs created -- and we're not talking "created and saved." These were 19 million net new jobs. And most of the new jobs were created by innovative new companies with amazing new products, companies like Apple (AAPL: 249.64 ,-0.24 ,-0.10%), and FedEx (FDX: 81.24 ,-0.35 ,-0.43%), and Microsoft (MSFT: 24.23 ,-0.22 ,-0.90%). These companies took off like flowers in the desert after a rain storm. As Reagan said in his second inaugural address:

"There are no limits to growth and human progress when men and women are free to follow their dreams."

That's the kind of radical vision we need now. Not one based on models that failed us in the '30s, but based on the policies that turned our economy and our spirits around in the '80s.

quote Originally posted by newf: You keep saying socialism fails and I'm not in total disagreement that true socailism has it's share of problems but what about the countries that are thriving with systems that you would classify as socialist or worse?

Like Venezuela, Cuba, Portugal, Spain, Italy--like the USSR did? Like China was before they switched to a capitalist system? Like we are now that we've been on an entitlement track for so long?

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 08-21-2010).]