I have seen this in the news for that last couple of days, and thought it was interesting. I have nothing against historical re-enactments, and I think that it would be fun to participate in one myself. The part that bothers me is the fact that the guy (and the re-enactment group) have went to the trouble of removing all references of the Rich Iott (and his alter persona, Reinhard Pferdmann) from their website. Once something like this is out there and the public is aware, covering it up makes you look guilty of something, even if you are not.
I have included the original article from The Atlantic which came out Friday, and also an article from Fox News from today.
An election year already notable for its menagerie of extreme and unusual candidates can add another one: Rich Iott, the Republican nominee for Congress from Ohio's 9th District, and a Tea Party favorite, who for years donned a German Waffen SS uniform and participated in Nazi re-enactments.
Iott, whose district lies in Northwest Ohio, was involved with a group that calls itself Wiking, whose members are devoted to re-enacting the exploits of an actual Nazi division, the 5th SS Panzer Division Wiking, which fought mainly on the Eastern Front during World War II. Iott's participation in the Wiking group is not mentioned on his campaign's website, and his name and photographs were removed from the Wiking website.
When contacted by The Atlantic, Iott confirmed his involvement with the group over a number of years, but said his interest in Nazi Germany was historical and he does not subscribe to the tenets of Nazism. "No, absolutely not," he said. "In fact, there's a disclaimer on the [Wiking] website. And you'll find that on almost any reenactment website. It's purely historical interest in World War II."
Iott, a member of the Ohio Military Reserve, added, "I've always been fascinated by the fact that here was a relatively small country that from a strictly military point of view accomplished incredible things. I mean, they took over most of Europe and Russia, and it really took the combined effort of the free world to defeat them. From a purely historical military point of view, that's incredible."
Iott says the group chose the Wiking division in part because it fought on the Eastern Front, mainly against the Russian Army, and not U.S. or British soldiers. The group's website includes a lengthy history of the Wiking unit, a recruitment video, and footage of goose-stepping German soldiers marching in the Warsaw victory parade after Poland fell in 1939. The website makes scant mention of the atrocities committed by the Waffen SS, and includes only a glancing reference to the "twisted" nature of Nazism. Instead, it emphasizes how the Wiking unit fought Bolshevist Communism: Nazi Germany had no problem in recruiting the multitudes of volunteers willing to lay down their lives to ensure a "New and Free Europe", free of the threat of Communism. National Socialism was seen by many in Holland, Denmark, Norway, Finland, and other eastern European and Balkan countries as the protector of personal freedom and their very way of life, despite the true underlying totalitarian (and quite twisted, in most cases) nature of the movement. Regardless, thousands upon thousands of valiant men died defending their respective countries in the name of a better tomorrow. We salute these idealists; no matter how unsavory the Nazi government was, the front-line soldiers of the Waffen-SS (in particular the foreign volunteers) gave their lives for their loved ones and a basic desire to be free.
Historians of Nazi Germany vehemently dispute this characterization. "These guys don't know their history," said Charles W. Sydnor, Jr., a retired history professor and author of "Soldiers of Destruction: The SS Death's Head Division, 1933-45," which chronicles an SS division. "They have a sanitized, romanticized view of what occurred." Sydnor added that re-enactments like the Wiking group's are illegal in Germany and Austria. "If you were to put on an SS uniform in Germany today, you'd be arrested."
Christopher Browning, a professor of history at the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill, said, "It is so unhistorical and so apologetic that you don't know to what degree they've simply caught up innocent war memorabilia enthusiasts who love putting on uniforms."
Iott says he does not recall exactly when he joined the Wiking group (his name appears on a unit roster as far back as 2003), but did so with his son "as a father-son bonding thing." He says his name and pictures were removed from the Wiking website not out of concern that they would harm his political career, but because he quit the group three years ago, after his son lost interest.
Iott participated in the group under his own name, and also under the alias "Reinhard Pferdmann," which has also been removed, and which Iott described as being his German alter ego. "Part of the reenactor's [experience]," Iott said, "is the living-history part, of really trying to get into the persona of the time period. In many, not just in our unit, but in many units what individuals do is create this person largely based on a Germanized version of their name, and a history kind of based around your own real experiences. 'Reinhard' of course is 'Richard' in German. And 'Pferdmann,' 'pferd' is a horse. So it's literally 'horse man.'"
Asked whether his participation in a Nazi re-enactor's group might not upset voters, particularly Jewish voters, Iott said he hoped it would not: "They have to take it in context. There's reenactors out there who do everything. You couldn't do Civil War re-enacting if somebody didn't play the role of the Confederates. [This] is something that's definitely way in the past. ... [I hope voters] take it in context and see it for what it is, an interest in World War II history. And that's strictly all."
Rabbi Moshe Saks, of the Congregation B'nai Israel in Sylvania, Ohio, a suburb of Toledo that sits in the 9th district, disagreed. "Any kind of reenactment or glorification of Nazi Germany, to us, would be something unacceptable and certainly in poor taste, if not offensive," he said. "I think the reaction here will be very negative. And not just among the Jewish community, but the broader community."
In a follow-up email today, Iott seemed at pains to address concerns that his conduct may have alienated veterans groups but made no specific mention of possible offense to Jews or human rights groups: "Never, in any of my reenacting of military history, have I meant any disrespect to anyone who served in our military or anyone who has been affected by the tragedy of war. In fact, I have immense respect for veterans who served our country valiantly, and my respect of the military and our veterans is one of the reasons I have actively studied military history throughout my life." He added that he has participated in re-enactments as a Civil War Union infantryman, a World War I dough boy and World War II American infantryman and paratrooper.
The actual Wiking unit has a history as grisly as that of other Nazi divisions. In her book "The Death Marches of Hungarian Jews Through Austria in the Spring of 1945," Eleonore Lappin, the noted Austrian historian, writes that soldiers from the Wiking division were involved in the killing of Hungarian Jews in March and April 1945, before surrendering to American forces in Austria.
"What you often hear is that the [Wiking] division was never formally accused of anything, but that's kind of a dodge," says Prof. Rob Citino, of the Military History Center at the University of North Texas, who examined the Wiking website. "The entire German war effort in the East was a racial crusade to rid the world of 'subhumans,' Slavs were going to be enslaved in numbers of tens of millions. And of course the multimillion Jewish population of Eastern Europe was going to be exterminated altogether. That's what all these folks were doing in the East. It sends a shiver up my spine to think that people want to dress up and play SS on the weekend."
An Ohio congressional candidate is under fire after a magazine unearthed a photo showing him dressed in a Waffen-SS uniform as part of a Nazi re-enactment group.
The Atlantic magazine, which published the photo, reported that Republican candidate Rich Iott was involved for years with Wiking, a group devoted to re-enacting the actions of the 5th SS Panzer Division Wiking. He told The Atlantic he joined as a "father-son bonding thing" and quit the organization several years ago after his son lost interest.
House Republican Whip Eric Cantor, R-Va., who is Jewish, said on "Fox News Sunday" that he "would absolutely repudiate" Iott's behavior.
But Iott, who is challenging Democratic Rep. Marcy Kaptur, defended himself in a statement Saturday after Kaptur's campaign and other groups condemned him. Iott said that as a student of history he has participated in numerous military re-enactments since he was in college and meant no offense by them.
"Never, in any of my re-enacting of military history, have I meant any disrespect to anyone who served in our military or anyone who has been affected by the tragedy of war, especially the Jewish Community," he said in a written statement. "I have immense respect for veterans who served our country valiantly, particularly those who fought to rid the world of tyranny and aggression by relegating Nazism to the trash heap of history. I also believe we need to 'never forget' what happened to Jews during that war."
According to the Wiking website, the organization is devoted to "presenting the history" of the Eastern Front division which fought the Russians, "never against the Americans."
The site said the members "honor" those "who really experienced the war" no matter their nationality, but stressed that the group prohibits racism "or any type of embracement of Nazi ideology."
A disclaimer on the home page says: "This page or anyone involved in its creation, or members of reenactment groups listed here, are in no way affiliated with real, radical political organizations (i.e., KKK, Aryan Nation, American Nazi Party, etc.) and do not embrace the philosophies and actions of the original NSDAP (Nazi party), and wholeheartedly condemn the atrocities which made them infamous. May the victims of this unspeakable horror rest in peace."
But Kaptur's campaign condemned the group and called Iott's participation "indefensible," questioning "who would honor such butchers?"
"My first reaction was shock, then my second reaction was dismay and then my third reaction was disgust, from what I've seen," Kaptur said in an interview with MyFoxToledo.
"To perpetuate such a twisted and dangerous view of history is outrageous and indefensible," her campaign said in a statement published by the Toledo Blade.
Iott called the charges against him "despicable" and said the election should be about issues, "not false character attacks."
IP: Logged
11:30 AM
PFF
System Bot
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Marlon Brando and Burt Lancaster played Nazis in the movies
pretty sure it doesn't make them believers
Agreed, but why did Iott go through the effort of having himself removed from the Wiking website? To me, this is the actual foul. I have never participated in a battle re-enactment, but have been to a few. In no way did I walk away believing that the participants on the "bad" side were the bad guys. He should stand proud for what he did, not try to hide it!
IP: Logged
12:04 PM
texasfiero Member
Posts: 4674 From: Houston, TX USA Registered: Jun 2003
Someone has to be the bad guy in re-enactments. I've been in a WW2 reenactment, and I was American, BUT, I later found out that the group called "Pegasus", and they sat most of the day drinking good beer, then went and got killed (after fighting the good fight). I don't care what side they are fighting for, guess whom I will be with next time. And yes, I already have the patch from them. It's awesome.
I believe they are British, though they could be New Zealand, RNZAF. I am not good yet with identification of WW2 era badges.
Brad
IP: Logged
12:39 PM
partfiero Member
Posts: 6923 From: Tucson, Arizona Registered: Jan 2002
The biggest concern to me would be the fact that he felt the desire to dress up as an SS officer, why not re-enact some other more innocuous group.
The biggest thing that bothers me is your claim that it is a "fact" that he has a desire to dress up as a Nazi. Americans do this all of the time. How about the people who dress up as southern soldiers in Civil war reenactments, is it a "fact that they feel a desire" to dress up as people who defend slavery? Election years in the US bring out every piece of bull crap that can be unearthed.
[This message has been edited by partfiero (edited 10-10-2010).]
IP: Logged
12:56 PM
Wichita Member
Posts: 20708 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
Agreed, but why did Iott go through the effort of having himself removed from the Wiking website? To me, this is the actual foul. I have never participated in a battle re-enactment, but have been to a few. In no way did I walk away believing that the participants on the "bad" side were the bad guys. He should stand proud for what he did, not try to hide it!
Why? Because some political consultant told him that it would be best to do that, because the left is going to banner stream it everyday from now till election that you are a Nazi supporter, sympathizer, member and everybody in the Tea Party is as well. Left-wing rags and media will be repeating it every minute from everyday.
If you have them remove you from the re-enacting club and when the filthy left find that out, they'll be saying "Why is he going through the trouble of hiding himself. Why? Is he really a Nazi sympathizer?" Since it will be posed as questions, the public will have a short attention span and this won't become much as an issue if it were a statement (like screenshots of his name next to a Nazi name.)
Basically they out maneuvered you and the left. Go ahead and try to make it an October surprise, but it will not work.
So how does it feel to be a stooge and whore to the left? LOL
IP: Logged
12:57 PM
spark1 Member
Posts: 11159 From: Benton County, OR Registered: Dec 2002
There are people among us who admire Nazi war heros for whatever reason. Others admire Confederate war heros for whatever reason. These may be unpopular stances that “bring discredit and disgrace” to public officials but does such admiration translate to belief in the failed cause?
"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows!"
[This message has been edited by spark1 (edited 10-10-2010).]
Agreed, but why did Iott go through the effort of having himself removed from the Wiking website? To me, this is the actual foul. I have never participated in a battle re-enactment, but have been to a few. In no way did I walk away believing that the participants on the "bad" side were the bad guys. He should stand proud for what he did, not try to hide it!
If you're that concerned about a candidate who did a battle re-enactment, you must really be sweating over Obama's hiding his college records, his long form birth certificate, any legal papers he did while President of the Harvard Law Review or as a professor in Chicago, why students who attended Columbia University with Obama have no recollection of him, who funded Obama's Harvard Law education, or a host of other questions?
Hiding a Nazi re-enactment is pretty obvious - to avoid people saying he's a Nazi because of it. Even people like you who profess to not care immediately spread the story asking what he has to hide, insinuating SOMETHING must be amiss.
There's a stark contrast between the concerns of Democrats and Republicans, it seems. Republicans are concerned with politicians who break the law, don't pay their taxes, associate with known terrorists, etc. Democrats are concerned with politicians who may have had a gay affair or dressed up as a Nazi for a battle re-enactment.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 10-10-2010).]
IP: Logged
01:51 PM
PFF
System Bot
htexans1 Member
Posts: 9115 From: Clear Lake City/Houston TX Registered: Sep 2001
Three Halloween's ago, I dressed up as an SS Major. No one thought I was a Nazi and many cared less. The only one that cared was another guy who dressed up as an SS Enlisted man. We took pics together.
As far as anyone believing I am one, I havent heard anyting to make me think so. lol
This is America, if he wants to reinact as a Nazi, who cares. Maybe he removed the references from the Nazi acting on the website to keep the left from belittiling him in commercials.
Obviously a non-issue, unless your digging up "political mud to throw."
Agreed, but why did Iott go through the effort of having himself removed from the Wiking website? To me, this is the actual foul. I have never participated in a battle re-enactment, but have been to a few. In no way did I walk away believing that the participants on the "bad" side were the bad guys. He should stand proud for what he did, not try to hide it!
Paranoia and afraid of what the press will make out of it.
Once when i was a kid i dressed up as the headless horseman, but does that make me a dead killer?
[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 10-10-2010).]
IP: Logged
02:13 PM
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
Originally posted by KidO: Agreed, but why did Iott go through the effort of having himself removed from the Wiking website?
Because the word "Nazi" has a stigma attached to it, and anyone labeled as such is automatically assumed to be an evil person. If the press had gotten copies of photos or videos of him dressed up as an SS officer, his career would be over, whether he actually is a Nazi sympathizer or not.
In the court of public opinion, justice is dubious.
I don't have enough information to determine if he actually is a Nazi sympathizer. So I won't make any conclusions.
Or maybe, he secretly belongs to the KKK, and is following in Sen Byrd's (deceased) footsteps.
I say there be a investigation into whether there are any missing Jews in the area, and if he has a 40X48 painting of Hitler in his den. Then they should head up to New England and look into the women who dress up as witches for reenactments of The Salem Witch Hunts to see if there are missing cats, and if those same women have a 40X48 painting of Christine O'Donnell hanging in there den.
[This message has been edited by partfiero (edited 10-10-2010).]
IP: Logged
02:58 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
I say there be a investigation into whether there are any missing Jews in the area, and if he has a 40X48 painting of Hitler in his den. Then they should head up to New England and look into the women who dress up as witches for reenactments of The Salem Witch Hunts to see if there are missing cats, and if those same women have a 40X48 painting of Christine O'Donnell hanging in there den.
If you did that at the White House, all you'd find in the first family's residence would be a 40X48 velvet painting of black Elvis, with Obama's face. Or maybe something original, like a Velvet Obama riding a Unicorn...
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 10-10-2010).]
All the obvious things aside, I think the SS had one of the coolest looking uniforms ever.
There was a reason for that: Marketing. They of cousre had their faults ( like lack of human compassion ) but they were not stupid and understood how important marketing and 'appearance' is.
IP: Logged
05:41 PM
D B Cooper Member
Posts: 3152 From: East Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2005
Is this kind of crap the best they can come up with for this year's October surprise ? What ? Are these #$#@ing pansies too lazy to even dig up decent mud anymore ? I mean, this isn't even antertaining; let alone scandalous !
IP: Logged
08:40 PM
PFF
System Bot
spark1 Member
Posts: 11159 From: Benton County, OR Registered: Dec 2002
My only question is where the heck is Neptune? I haven't seen him post in a long time. This war re-enactment as a Nazi is pure
So what, I've been asked to do the same thing for a Civil War Battle re-enactment and the only question asked was what size I wore because they only had limited uniforms. Turns out, I was gonna be a Confederate but it didn't work out, I had other priorities that had to be addressed.
Ron
IP: Logged
09:40 PM
KidO Member
Posts: 1019 From: The Pacific Northwest Registered: Dec 2003
Originally posted by Wichita: So how does it feel to be a stooge and whore to the left? LOL
Really? I think some of you would vote for Satan himself if there was an R next to his name on the ballot! Grow up and think for yourself, rather than parrot your anti-liberal crap at me. All I suggested is that the man stand up for what he did, or does. There is nothing at all wrong with re-enactment of history, why hide it.
IP: Logged
11:25 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Really? I think some of you would vote for Satan himself if there was an R next to his name on the ballot!
As evidenced in the last election, I believe the same can be said of the Ds.
quote
Grow up and think for yourself, rather than parrot your anti-liberal crap at me. All I suggested is that the man stand up for what he did, or does. There is nothing at all wrong with re-enactment of history, why hide it.
There's nothing wrong with Obama's history either (supposedly). Why hide it behind sealed records? [waiting patiently for a (any) (a single) liberal or progressive to ask the same question]
I should, I suppose-- opt for full personal disclosure, tho i will probably be booted off the island. When I was 11 or 12, I was Santa Anna in a school play of 'The Alamo". I've never mentioned it here before. Let the negs begin.
Yep, it's been a slow news day. Tempests in teapots.
IP: Logged
12:39 AM
KidO Member
Posts: 1019 From: The Pacific Northwest Registered: Dec 2003
As evidenced in the last election, I believe the same can be said of the Ds.
I will agree in that I think many from both sides vote for a party as opposed to a candidate. I feel that it is unfortunate that people will go into a voting booth and check a box on the ballot without any idea who it is they are voting for. Maybe I am odd in that I take the time to research both the people and the issues I am voting for.
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:
There's nothing wrong with Obama's history either (supposedly). Why hide it behind sealed records? [waiting patiently for a (any) (a single) liberal or progressive to ask the same question]
I would agree, except that it has been seen and validated, even according to the Free Republic, who offers this article on their website.
I think a truly slow news day would have to include at least one article regarding Obama's citizenship, don't you? As the election draws near there will be all sorts of claims brought forth about the candidates. Rather than ignore them, take the time to learn about them yourself.
Even after Star Wars I, II, and III, I still prefer Darth Vader over Luke Skywalker...
IP: Logged
07:27 AM
blackrams Member
Posts: 33140 From: Covington, TN, USA Registered: Feb 2003
Our fearless leader has a whole set of closed door issues that he will not allow full disclosure on, his birth certificate is only one of them.
I've never voted a straight ticket in my life. I try to research where to use my vote, it's that important to me. Yep, many on both sides do vote the party line. Those folks are pathetic in my mind.
As far as a slow news day, Brett Farve is accused of sexual harassment.
Ron
IP: Logged
07:41 AM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
"A new court filing that returns the issue of Barack Obama's eligibility to the U.S. Supreme Court warns that unless the judiciary makes a definitive decision in the dispute, it will be the same as allowing the political interests in the United States to amend the U.S. Constitution at will. "
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 10-11-2010).]
IP: Logged
12:46 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Agreed, but why did Iott go through the effort of having himself removed from the Wiking website? To me, this is the actual foul. I have never participated in a battle re-enactment, but have been to a few. In no way did I walk away believing that the participants on the "bad" side were the bad guys. He should stand proud for what he did, not try to hide it!
Or maybe he knows how liberal the media is and would make THIS very accusation and just didn't want to deal with the non-sense. Show me where he has an autographed first edition of Mein Kampf or a hatred of Jews and we'll talk. But based on his acting a part? Ridiculous.
Brando played a Nazi in The Young Lions and Lancaster in The Nuremburg Trails. I can name a dozen mroe but the point has been made.
I meant the politician not Brando, dressing up for a movie role is one thing spending your spare time dressed up as one of the most evil and vile groups in history is another IMO. Depends on their motives for doing so however and that is hard to determine. I have Jewish friends and don't think I'd feel right about it but that's just personal choice. If I had any political aspirations I sure as hell would stay away from such things.
[This message has been edited by newf (edited 10-11-2010).]
Or maybe he knows how liberal the media is and would make THIS very accusation and just didn't want to deal with the non-sense. Show me where he has an autographed first edition of Mein Kampf or a hatred of Jews and we'll talk. But based on his acting a part? Ridiculous.
I would guess it wouldn't matter what political party he was associated with, if this came to light it would be reported. At least I would hope so.
[This message has been edited by newf (edited 10-11-2010).]
I think a truly slow news day would have to include at least one article regarding Obama's citizenship, don't you? As the election draws near there will be all sorts of claims brought forth about the candidates. Rather than ignore them, take the time to learn about them yourself.
Even after Star Wars I, II, and III, I still prefer Darth Vader over Luke Skywalker...
No, I do not think a slow day on a liberal slanted media would include an article relative to Obama's insistence that his records be sealed.
I'm 60, and was making informed decisions prior to entering the voting booth long long before people devolved to the point they require an internet website to do it for them. Factcheck/Avalon Project? No thanks. Fox? NO! thanks.
IP: Logged
01:15 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
I meant the politician not Brando, dressing up for a movie role is one thing spending your spare time dressed up as one of the most evil and vile groups in history is another IMO. Depends on their motives for doing so however and that is hard to determine. I have Jewish friends and don't think I'd feel right about it but that's just personal choice. If I had any political aspirations I sure as hell would stay away from such things.
Really? What about dressing up as a Roman? or a Crusader? or like Charlie Manson, etc. There are LOTS of evil groups and persons and to associate someone playing a role with the character they play is ridiculous.
Really? What about dressing up as a Roman? or a Crusader? or like Charlie Manson, etc. There are LOTS of evil groups and persons and to associate someone playing a role with the character they play is ridiculous.
I'm not sure what "role" this guy was playing? Do you know?
IP: Logged
01:20 PM
KidO Member
Posts: 1019 From: The Pacific Northwest Registered: Dec 2003
No, I do not think a slow day on a liberal slanted media would include an article relative to Obama's insistence that his records be sealed.
I'm 60, and was making informed decisions prior to entering the voting booth long long before people devolved to the point they require an internet website to do it for them. Factcheck/Avalon Project? No thanks. Fox? NO! thanks.
I'm not here to change you opinion. I simply brought a topic to the table. Whether you wish to dismiss it or not is up to you. As far as Obama's birth records, plenty of evidence has also been brought to the table proving their legitimacy. You choose to dismiss it. Where does one such as yourself go to find information? I quoted one source, linked on a conservative website. Many members of that website, as yourself, also choose to dismiss it, which is evident by the comments they posted to the article. So my question to you is - Where should I look like to find proof that Obama is not a natural born U.S. Citizen? Most, if not all the claims by the Birthers have been disproven. As far as releasing the records; I agree with Obama. If the extremists didn't have his citizenship to rally around they would find something else.
Unfortunately, our politicians have become targets of extremists from all sides, on both sides. I did not say that I believe that Iott is a Nazi. I asked why cover up his participation in a Nazi re-enactment? Does that make me an extremist on the left? Apparently, according to the right it does. In this day and age there is no excuse to not know everything there is to know about our political candidates. As a past resident of Ohio, I still follow their politics, and this caught my eye. As a U.S. Citizen, and Independent voter, I keep an eye open on our countries politics as a whole. Even those which I have no direct effect on.
IP: Logged
06:09 PM
partfiero Member
Posts: 6923 From: Tucson, Arizona Registered: Jan 2002
I would guess it wouldn't matter what political party he was associated with, if this came to light it would be reported. At least I would hope so.
Are you serious? You really know little about our liberal press. They would hide crap like this until it gets too big to hide, then they spin it. Carefully choosing adverbs and adjectives to fluff it up so he would have a soft landing.
And yes, I already have the patch from them. It's awesome. 
.
