Picking up an E350 today after work, 5.4L He SAYS its a head gasket, we'll get into that later, but theoretically, does anyone have any information on replacing them for this model? Seems like it might be a PITA being a van. Does anyone have a link to a FSM?

Here's the van
http://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/1975587920.html

He says a driver was going down the highway, and the van started to run hot. He took it to a shop, the shop pulled one plug from each side of the motor, and said the second one was wet.

So then he hopped on one foot, spun in a circle and poured a quart of oil on the floor. He then read 'head gasket' from the pourings.

I may have embelleshed the part after 'wet' but thats all he said they did so I dont know how else they could have gotten to head gasket. Im guessing the mechanic knew it was a busniess and saw $$$$. OR it could be a headgasket, but I personally have never seen a headgasket leak into a cyl that didnt smoke like a biatch.

So Im probably going to pick it up this afternoon, dont anticipate it being that big of a deal to do a headgasket, even being OHC.

Thoughts?

[This message has been edited by 86GT3.4DOHC (edited 09-27-2010).]

Never believe what someone says in an add or in person.

I bought a mini van that the guy said had a bad seal. Turned out it needed a new trany because it had blown up.

Look at it yourself. The add has been pulled by the way.

I have started copying adds on craigs list and saving them before I even call now. I have gotten someplace to look at something and then they say they never said that. At least then I have the add to prove what they said.

Steve

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

Oh yea, no doubt. Im going to make sure the oil isnt milky, check if its missing, and check if its smoking, if none of those three, Im throwing it on the trailer and running as fast as I can.

As long as the oil isnt super milky, I'll probably be okay, headgasket I dont mind, but I dont want to rebuild the whole engine.

The ad still works for me...

$300-$500 to repair head gasket at a shop? I say BS! If it was that cheap, then fix it and sell the van for $3K! It will probably run about double or triple to fix the head gasket.... Maybe call a few shops to find out the cost, if you are not going to do it yourself.

J.

Hell if I thought I could really get it done for that much, Id just take it wherever he did and have them do it, then sell it, lol.

Thats another part of the reason I dont think its the problem. Could be, I dunno, but Im prepared to do the work

As do I jaskispyder

. It is a full size van though and that does make the job easier. Take the dog house out and I think you can do it without to much trouble.

But hey even if you have to replace the engine, now that is a pain, you still have something worth the price.

Now the link works for me. I love those full size vans, it’s the mileage that kills me. Loaded or unloaded they don’t get crap for mileage. I bet you will be lucky if you get 12 miles to the gallon. So unless you need a van that size it’s not worth much to ya.

Good luck

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

I have owned five Ford vans of that era. All E250s. Head gaskets run about $1,200 at a reputable shop. While the 5.4 is common, working on them can be a bear. Use caution when inspecting the van. Transmissions are known failure points. As is the coils on top of the engine. For the price though, it looks to be of value. Good luck.


Edit: I wanted to add, that if you could bring a code reader with you, you are already ahead of the game. O2 sensors (4) are spendy. Let us know how it goes.
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[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 09-27-2010).]

PM sent.

I dont plan on putting many miles on it, just from Lowes to whatever job site when I need to haul large or a lot of things. That and storage for tools and materials. Hopefully have a garage to keep it in on the sites.

So I went down and looked at it. Just a hair rougher than I originally thought, plus the shelves arent what I thought they would be, I was hoping more for little containers or something.

Interior is in good shape, exterior is clean, underbody looks great. Only the rear tires were new, the fronts are passable but on the way out. The engine looks clean.

The oil however was about a gallon over, and the look and consistancy of vanilla pudding. It fired up and didnt make any noise though, still I wasnt too eager about it.

Yet somehow its following me home as we speak, lol, albiet for $900.

Crossing my fingers.

Also, as far as the dog house, my best estimate, that is the ONLY way to work on the engine, the hood is for changing the battery or air filter lol.

Wow this is going to be a pain in the ass, barely room for a ratchet on top of the engine, much less room to see where to take bolts out of, especially with all the wires and hoses...

Find a ford forum and start reading and asking questions

When I was looking for a truck, I was looking at the fords and got scared by the 6.0 L engines, seems they had issues that caused the headbolts to become weak, etc.. I ended up getting a 7.3 diesel F350.


I remember a 78 ford van with a 351 I had years back, barely any room to do anything

[This message has been edited by isthiswhereiputausername? (edited 09-28-2010).]

I have a 2001 E250 with 5.4L engine. When you pull the dog box be sure to pull the seats as well. You will need all the room you can get.

Also make sure you dont over-tighten the spark plugs. The threads are known to be weak and 01 to 04 I believe were known to blow plugs right out of the head. Be sure to read up on this or you will have serious problems. Ford even has a kit for retapping the treads with head still on block.

I never had to pull a 5.4 head and I can't imagine getting a torque wrench in there to properly tighten the head bolts.

Typically if the engine begins to overheat the computer ECM will start shutting down cylinders to try keeping the engine cool. You should notice a reduction in power before any damage is done.

Looks like you got your work cut out.

Good luck & keep us posted.

Spoon

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Two yeast spent their entire life "about 2 days" discussing what the purpose of life could be and not once did they even come close to the fact that they were making champagne. Quoted by: Unknown

There will probably be plenty of room once I get the cam carriers off, those dont look like they will be a problem, but that will give me another 6" to get to the head bolts. The hard part looks to be getting all the crap out of the way to get the intake and such off.

Removing the front fender liners may help a bit. THe metal cowl can be a biatch. Just no removing that hunk of metal.

As mentioned, be VERY careful of the plugs. A seemingly easy operation, can turn ugly quickly.

I seriously miss my vans. The suspension on the 350 is just awesome. Nothing like absolutely filling up the thing with drywall, and barely even noticing that you are carrying a load.

My personal experiences left me to NOT leave anything of importance in the van. They are extremely easy to break into. I can open the front doors just as easy as using the handles. Seriously!

My last baby.... She was in rough shape, and in need of a trans, but she shined up well, and gave me a few years of nearly trouble free labor. I did all of the flooring, and E-track. Installed carpet, and even had a sound system bumping a cheapo 10". The moving blanket made it bearable during the Michigan winters. It got down right humid in the passenger area. I had even built a custom console.

LMAO. Ive got the heads ready to come off once I figure out the timing chain position's. Checked out alldata, and thought Id see what they said about removing the heads.

Cylinder head removal:

Step 1:
Remove engine.

Step 2:
.....

LOL for once Im glad I didnt read the directions first,,,

Ah Shieat....

Head gaskets look fine. None of the cyls look diffrent. The intake gaskets look okay, maybe just a little distortion on one coolant passage, doesnt look like the issue. Cant see any issues with the intake.

When I took the harmonic balancer out, the oil sludge started dribbling out of the seal. Right now there is a gallon of it in a pail, and the oil pan is full to the brim, so there is a TON of coolant in the oil. It appeared to be smoking some when we were running it to get it on and off the trailer.

Only thing I can think is a cracked head, but it seems like a lot of coolant in the oil, and I wouldnt think that much would come through the combustion chamber, so it would have to be leaking both into the oil passage and the intake path.

Is the 5.4 Triton known for cracked heads?

I'm not sure of the configuration of the water pump and its connection to the timing chain or cam chain covers. But I had a similar issue with a Pontiac V8 in the day. Behind the water pump impeller is the timing chain cover and sometimes some pitting will occur and allow coolant to go thru those pits to the other side of the timing chain cover and right down into the oil pan.

The pitting was so small you could not see daylight thru it but when I pressed grease up against the pits it would oooze right thru to the other side.

Check any barriers separating coolant and oil. You may find the problem.


Spoon

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Two yeast spent their entire life "about 2 days" discussing what the purpose of life could be and not once did they even come close to the fact that they were making champagne. Quoted by: Unknown

Cracked water jacket? I hope not because all the work you have done so far would be a waist.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

Junk yard motor may be in order? Refer to step one if that is the case. (A slight attempt at humor.)

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I honestly dont have a clue how you are supposed to remove this motor. Definitely not assembled though. I'd have to check Alldata.

I dropped the heads off today, so we'll see.

One thing I completely forgot to check, the TB gasket. Its a long shot, but there is a coolant passage into the TB (Im assuming).

There is just way too much coolant in the oil IMO though.

I think if the heads arent cracked its going to be a tossup between putting it back together and seeing if it was a gasket, or just junking it. I paid $900, $80 in gas, and $250 in the parts to put it back together, which I could return. I can get at least $500 out if it if junked.

... Wait a minute, I think it also has an oil cooler. Thats a possiblity.

It could also be that it was smoking because there was soo much freaking oil\coolant slush in the engine it was making it past the pistons and \ or through the PCV.

Take the seats out and open the side door. Put the engine crane arm in threw the side door and bolt a chain across the top of what you have as tight as possible.

Then attach a short chain to the engine crane you need it as short as possible then just pull it out the side. that’s how we did my E150.

You can take the frt off and pull it out threw there but if you have it this far apart the first way is the easiest.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

I dont see it coming out the interior with the tranny still in place.

Anyway, the TB has hoses to it, so no coolant in the intake path.

Ive also theorized that the leak has to be between a pressurized (obviously) water jacket and a low pressure oil passage. There is next to no oil (probably just my contamination) in any of the coolant, if it were a pressurized oil passage, the oil would flow into the coolant as well. I also think that the little smoke coming out of the exhaust was a combination of condensation and some of the sludge making it back into the intake line through normal processes, as there has been some draining out of the intake, and I see signs of it in the TB.

I seem to recall one of the head bolts being a little loose, but I dont remember exactly.

What are the chances though that the block would just spontaniously crack? Its iron, whereas the aluminum heads I would think would be more prone, crossing my fingers and waiting for the machine shop to call.

quote Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC: I dont see it coming out the interior with the tranny still in place. Anyway, the TB has hoses to it, so no coolant in the intake path. Ive also theorized that the leak has to be between a pressurized (obviously) water jacket and a low pressure oil passage. There is next to no oil (probably just my contamination) in any of the coolant, if it were a pressurized oil passage, the oil would flow into the coolant as well. I also think that the little smoke coming out of the exhaust was a combination of condensation and some of the sludge making it back into the intake line through normal processes, as there has been some draining out of the intake, and I see signs of it in the TB. I seem to recall one of the head bolts being a little loose, but I dont remember exactly. What are the chances though that the block would just spontaniously crack? Its iron, whereas the aluminum heads I would think would be more prone, crossing my fingers and waiting for the machine shop to call.

You don’t pull the trany when you pull it out from inside, just the motor. Now you can pull engine and trany out the front but you have to remove grill, hood, radiator support and radiator.

Check the freeze plugs if any look new or out of position it may have had no anti and cracked but it sounds like a loose head bolt may have been your culprit.

If just one was lose then the rest may not have been properly torqued. Or in order. That alone could warp the heads.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

More inspecting, more mystery.

Ive ruled out the oil cooler just on the theory that with oil pressure being 80PSI cold when cooland is 0-1 PSI cold, there should have been a ton of oil in the coolant if there were a leak to a high pressure area.

However, I remembered, the rear freeze plugs on the heads were covered in slime, looked like it took a long time to get there, but who knows about the fronts. Granted they would have been covered in oil thier whole lives so not really exposed to corrosion like the rear, but a leak there would cause these symptoms.

Other than that, the machine shop is checking if they have the plates to pressure test these heads.

Its still a tossup, if the heads dont test bad (which they could still be cracked anyway) and I have no other clues, is it worth the $250 in parts plus time to put it back together and see? Or should I strip the heads while they are off, get the money in aluminum, sell a couple of parts and get $500 for the scrap value of the van? Current investment is $980 + time + parts I can return at this point. Oh + machine shop fees

FOUND IT!!

Freeze plugs in the head.

I recall that the rear ones were slimey, cleaned them up, they looked good but I thought it odd I could flex them by pushing on them. Made me think to check the fronts. Cleaned them up and saw a dark spot, sure enough a pick stuck in it. Went to the next one and pushed the middle, the damn pick went straight through it!

So, yay for a known cause, boo for trashing $250 in headset and headbolts when I could have replaced all 4 plugs for $5 and an hour labor...

If a freeze plug was popped or out of position it is possible you have a cracked coolant passage. Can you have them pressure tested or have you already?

I would just hate to see you do all that work putting them back on only to find out after.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

No it was rusted through.

Lol. It's funny to read this. I had an E150 that I had. I loved the van, but it disintegrated a piston on me. I had it torn apart to about the point you are at. Then I found out what the scrap prices were, and I junked the van. The body was too rusty for me to put the effort into. I miss the van, but considering at the time of scrapping I had three other cars that didn't run, I think I made the right decision. I do think pulling the motor out the front would have been a lot easier, but I didn't have a hoist and it was parked in a gravel drive. The front end comes off pretty quickly.

EDIT to add: Don't look at your work as a waste. You now know what condition that motor is in, and you can clean it up before you reassemble. You now have one thing on this van you shouldn't have to worry about any time soon.

[This message has been edited by 86fierofun (edited 10-08-2010).]

Maybe I missed it, but how can a freeze plug leak oil on the floor? Was it just overheating? I thought there was a problem with the oil also.

No oil on the floor, coolant in the oil

And this body is in really good shape, I think its a good investment, or at least at this point, who knows what I will find when I try to drive it.

quote Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC: No oil on the floor, coolant in the oil And this body is in really good shape, I think its a good investment, or at least at this point, who knows what I will find when I try to drive it.

ok... so, coolant in the oil. How does a leaking freeze plug allow coolant into the oil? I am thinking of the freeze plugs you access from the outside.... are there other ones where they cross and oil passage? I guess I just don't understand how this is working.

There are freeze plugs at both ends of the head on this van, one end of which is behind the timing cover.

On another note... IT RUNS!!!

Doesnt smoke (well after it burnt through the crap) and it doesnt knock. Let it come up to operating tempature for 5 minutes, now I'll have to change the oil, then probably again in 50 miles or so.

So I've got
$900 in purchase
$80 in transportation
$40 in machine shop
$250 in parts

I'll have to take some pictures, its not bad looking for a $1275 van.

And this definitely isnt the original motor, cant be old at all, there is NO ring ridge, couldnt even feel it with a pick, the insides of the engine arent stained, and the outside isnt greasy in the least. And whoever put it in was a damn good mechanic, there were only a few subtle hints that someone had been in there.

One question, are there supposed to be clips holding the injectors to the fuel rail? If not this is one retarded ass design. I had the #1 injector spewing fuel, and if you watch, when you pressurize the system, you can see the fuel rail lift slightly from the pressure. Its just held down by 2 bolts on the rail brackets.

Oh and it does have SES and ABS lights lit, but we'll see.

This is a nice van!

The SES light cleared and didnt come back, havent gotten around to clearing the ABS light.

The AC doesnt seem to work, probably just needs charged. Starts up good, runs great, shifts great, feels good. Front brakes squeak, but thats probably just a matter of pads. I think it might need an allignment though, feels a little uneasy at 60MPH and the one tire is showing toe wear.

The back is nice, solar fan works, shelves and desk are cool, diamond plate on the floor and doors.

I built another set of shelves, 48x18x48 to go against the front wall, I havent made the boxes yet, but the rack is there, and the boxes will be removable so you can take them inside to work with.

Body is in good to great shape, some nicks and stuff I cleaned up and touched up with white spray, no real rust anywhere. The engine bay was really clean. Rear tires are great. Interior is solid, though pass window screaches going up and down.

All in all Im happy with it, though plates are freaking double because its a 1 ton, and that 1 ton suspension is harsh too!

quote Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC: , and that 1 ton suspension is harsh too!

It may be harsh, but it is ever so gratifying parked next to an E150 that is loaded up dragging it's tail, while your van sits tall and proud with a full load. Jealousy will ensue...