I just heard from a Tesla employee that Toyota is basically buying control in them.

That is all I know right now.
They bought the GM/Toyota Nummi plant. ANything original we had in Tesla is now going to benefit Toyota and you all will buy it up.

Tesla sold out and went corporate?!



Say it ain't so!

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 05-21-2010).]

Does this mean the next Prius will do 0-60 in 5 seconds?

I still no get how to post up actual videos. Me bang on keys until something happens... Tesla, Signs...

=http://www.youtube.com/wat.../watch?v=r0tu_4Y_b_w

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 05-22-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: I still no get how to post up actual videos. Me bang on keys until something happens... Tesla, Signs...

Add [youtube] before and [/youtube] after the link. Hit the "edit" button on my post to see how I did it.

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 05-21-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: I still no get how to post up actual videos. Me bang on keys until something happens...

Tony, click "Edit" in Boonie's post and have a look!

Sheeetttt, it was about 1933 folks were running tractors on goat crap...alternative fuel is nothing new.

The vested interests just buy up everything thats a threat to the bottom line, and shelve it,

Hell, it started with guys named Tesla and Rockafeller at Niagra Falls a little over a century ago.

Redundant

[This message has been edited by spark1 (edited 05-21-2010).]

Toyota did not neccessarily buy Tesla--And I don't think they have at all--they invested only $50 million in it. How much of an ownership stake that gives Toyota, depends on the IPO Tesla will offer soon, and how many shares are issued. Since the Tesla stand alone IPO is still (AFAIK) forthcoming, it's reasonable to assume Toyota is not majority owner--otherwise, the IPO would not be still on the drawing board.
Tesla needed $--Toyota needed elec vehicle expertise--thus the buy in by Toyota.

Toyota already owned the NUMmI plant, and as far as going "corporate", Tesla already had Daimler on board as one of it's investers..

quote NEW YORK — Toyota’s $50 million (U.S.) investment in electric car start-up Tesla Motors Inc. will help Tesla’s already-bright prospect for its initial public offering, an IPO analyst said Friday. John Fitzgibbon of IPOscoop.com, said Tesla will soon add Toyota Motor Corp.’s name to its list of high-profile investors in a coming amendment to its IPO prospectus. “Having Toyota involved gives them instant credibility,” said Fitzgibbon, who currently rates the company as a three-star IPO on a scale of one to five stars. Toyota joins a list of investors in Tesla including Germany’s Daimler, the Abu Dhabi government, and venture capitalists Elon Musk, Tesla’s chairman and chief executive officer, and Steve Jurvetson, among others. “This is supposed to be the wave of the future and it never happened,” Fitzgibbon said. “But Tesla has larger revenue than past electric-car startups and now it has a $50 million infusion from one of the leading auto competitors. So that certainly tells you that somebody has confidence in this thing.” Fitzgibbon said Tesla Motors already ranked among the most visible-initial public offerings on the plate for 2010 because of its appeal as a low emission product. “You have the ecology thing behind it and the appeal of not relying on oil from Saudi Arabia or oil squirting into the Gulf of Mexico,” Fitzgibbon said. Tesla filed plans to go public on Jan. 29 as part of its push to raise money to produce electric cars for the mainstream market. The company said it planned to raise up to $100 million, at the time. Since then, Tesla has filed two amendments to its IPO prospectus, but it has yet to disclose an estimated price range of its offering or even a proposed trading symbol or stock exchange. Once it releases a target price, Tesla will go on a road show to prospective IPO investors about two to three weeks ahead of its actual stock market debut. Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, J.P. Morgan and Deutsche Bank Securities comprise the banking team for the IPO. In 2009, Tesla reported $112 million (U.S.) in revenue and a net loss of $56 million, with an accumulated deficit of $260.7 million. It sold a total of 937 Tesla Roadster electric cars as of Dec. 31, 2009. It’s planning wider production of its Model S sedan. The company said it had plans to begin volume production of the car in 2012 with a target annual production of up to approximately 20,000 cars per year, priced under $50,000. To be sure, plenty of risk remains associated with any startup IPO, including Tesla’s. The company’s IPO prospectus contains 30 pages of risk factors, a required section of all IPOs. The section starts out with the statement: Our limited operating history makes evaluating our business and future prospects difficult, and may increase the risk of your investment.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-22-2010).]

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: I just heard from a Tesla employee that Toyota is basically buying control in them. That is all I know right now. They bought the GM/Toyota Nummi plant. ANything original we had in Tesla is now going to benefit Toyota and you all will buy it up.

Toyota already owned NUMMI, or some portion of it.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Toyota already owned NUMMI, or some portion of it.

That's what I said. Toyota ended up with it when GM bailed after their bankruptcy.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: That's what I said. Toyota ended up with it when GM bailed after their bankruptcy.

Yup, sorry, missed your post.

Umm who stopped Gov't motors from investing? Or Ford? Or Bill Gates?

As for 50 mil from Toyota they're getting a butt load more than just money from them.
http://www.teslamotors.com/

The real car to watch out of them is the Model S if they can hit the market at the est 49k price and deliver a quality sedan they can almost start printing money. *provided it's got the fit and finish of a Benz or BMW

Sedans are the bread and butter that will allow them to lower the price of the Tesla roadster and offer smaller coupes and sedans at reasonable prices.

Although all of this depends if Obama and his buddies Pelosi and Reid get Cap and Tax passed projected energy rates may just kill this in CA and other high utility rate states.

<<edit had the price of the S model wrong>>

[This message has been edited by Uaana (edited 05-22-2010).]

Doesn't really matter what happens in Calif--Toyota will get to use Tesla's technology and sell their own version worldwide to compete with GM Volt and Nissan Leaf..but it will help if Toyota has a zero emission vehicle to offer in Calif.

Not that I would buy a foriegn brand tho.

quote Originally posted by Uaana: The real car to watch out of them is the Model S if they can hit the market at the est 49k price and deliver a quality sedan they can almost start printing money. *provided it's got the fit and finish of a Benz or BMW

I really don't see electric cars (all electric, that is) catching on until:

1. Their range increases significantly. We need a quantum leap in battery technology, first.
2. Their recharge time is anything close to filling your gas tank
3. A big enough recharging infrastructure to make them practical for more than very short trips.

quote Although all of this depends if Obama and his buddies Pelosi and Reid get Cap and Tax passed projected energy rates may just kill this in CA and other high utility rate states. <<edit had the price of the S model wrong>>

If cap and tax passes, it's all over. The price of everything will rise so dramatically, it will collapse the already shaky world economy. The last thing people will be thinking about is buying an electric car with a limited range.

The way sooo many people are totally head over heels about electric cars solving all the world problems, I'd wait just a bit more than then short sell any electric car stock and wait for the green bubble to burst wide open

I guess I'm one of those who just can't see where an elec would benefit me. A lot of my driving does fit into the mileage range, but the benefits don't pan out when compared to the cost of the vehicle purchase. Plus, how am I gonna jump start my tractors with an EV?

Ya notice all the articles regarding Tesla buying NUMMI neglect to include how much they paid for it? I don't think they actually bought it outright, just arranged for the plant to be part of the buy in deal with Toyota.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-22-2010).]

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO THEM, BITCHES!

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Not that I would buy a foriegn brand tho.

I'd proudly buy a Toyota before I'd ever consider another Government Motors vehicle. That is saying alot considering a '10 SS Camaro now graces my driveway.

Tesla bought NUMMI from Toyota.

http://www.autoguide.com/au...s-in-california.html

quote Originally posted by maryjane: I guess I'm one of those who just can't see where an elec would benefit me. A lot of my driving does fit into the mileage range, but the benefits don't pan out when compared to the cost of the vehicle purchase. Plus, how am I gonna jump start my tractors with an EV? Ya notice all the articles regarding Tesla buying NUMMI neglect to include how much they paid for it? I don't think they actually bought it outright, just arranged for the plant to be part of the buy in deal with Toyota.

Jump start the tractors?

1) You could quit cheaping out and buy those poor boys some decent batteries of their own
2) You gots 140 volts or something like that in the EV, you don't even need cables, just park it close!!

EV makes no sense for me at all. We hvae to drive 16 miles just to get groceries and Sandi's work commute is 80 miles a day. They also don't have the load carrying capacity. I have neighbors that use golf carts for small Utility Vehicles on their farms and even THEY are going away from electric to gas powered ones.

John Stricker

If they made an affordable one that would do 60 to 80 miles on a charge I would get one to drive to work. But to me affordable is under $15000 and thats not going to happen.

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: Sheeetttt, it was about 1933 folks were running tractors on goat crap...alternative fuel is nothing new. The vested interests just buy up everything thats a threat to the bottom line, and shelve it, Hell, it started with guys named Tesla and Rockafeller at Niagra Falls a little over a century ago.

Don't you mean Tesla and Westinghouse instead? ( tho Westinghouse was just funding Nikola, wasn't really a scientist )

I also personally fail to see the great advantage of electric vehicles.

Doesn't it still need electricity to recharge?

Isn't the majority of our electricity produced by fossil fuels, and don't those fossil fuels produce pollution?

What"s going to happen when say 40% of electric vehicle owners have to plug their vehicles into an already maxxed out electric grid?

Technological advancements are commendable, but if they really don't solve a major problem like fossil fuel use, is it worth pursuing?

Please enlighten me if I am missing something.

quote Originally posted by FrugalFiero: I also personally fail to see the great advantage of electric vehicles. Doesn't it still need electricity to recharge? Isn't the majority of our electricity produced by fossil fuels, and don't those fossil fuels produce pollution? What"s going to happen when say 40% of electric vehicle owners have to plug their vehicles into an already maxxed out electric grid? Technological advancements are commendable, but if they really don't solve a major problem like fossil fuel use, is it worth pursuing? Please enlighten me if I am missing something.

The goal would be to migrate the power production to longer term sources like nuclear or solar or geothermal ( since we are talking about Telsa, he saw geothermal as our future..). Also, a good coal plant ( like we have here in Indiana ) generating power is far more efficient/cleaner then a bunch of gas powered cars..

if everyone had electric cars, then switching over to alternative sources down the road would be minor as the consumer infrastructure would be in place. You car ( or house ) wouldn't care how its generated, its just electrons.

And no, I'm not some greenie saying the world is going to end, but it doesn't hurt to conserve a bit here and there and look down the road.

[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 05-22-2010).]

I think the biggest advantage to electric cars vs some other alternative energy source is that the infrastructure is already there, and easier to upgrade. If, for instance, cars go to hydrogen, the nation would be investing in a new hydrogen production and distribution infrastructure. The downside is that the electrical grid itself would need significant upgrades, although it is in serious need of upgrading either way.

There are also some people who feel we are not that far away anymore from people producing their own power at their homes with solar. Advancements in solar panel technology are making them lighter and cheaper. Also, as battery technology advances, some people invision homes being self sufficient electrically, using solar panels and a future super battery to store power generated during the day for use at night. I am not sure this is right around the corner, and it is heavily reliant on the elusive super battery, but it is interesting to think about.

I won't be the first to own an electric car. I really have nothing against them, other than the range, recharge time, and cost. In time, if those issues were resolved I would be more interested.

At this stage, I would much sooner buy a plug in Volt type of drivetrain in a car than an all electric Tesla since I wouldn't be limited to the battery charge, or having to wait a long period of time for a recharge.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: Jump start the tractors? 1) You could quit cheaping out and buy those poor boys some decent batteries of their own 2) You gots 140 volts or something like that in the EV, you don't even need cables, just park it close!! EV makes no sense for me at all. We hvae to drive 16 miles just to get groceries and Sandi's work commute is 80 miles a day. They also don't have the load carrying capacity. I have neighbors that use golf carts for small Utility Vehicles on their farms and even THEY are going away from electric to gas powered ones. John Stricker

I'll have you know, I have wonderful batteries. Good batteries.

I also have Lucas alternators and charging systems.

quote Originally posted by Fformula88: I think the biggest advantage to electric cars vs some other alternative energy source is that the infrastructure is already there, and easier to upgrade. If, for instance, cars go to hydrogen, the nation would be investing in a new hydrogen production and distribution infrastructure. The downside is that the electrical grid itself would need significant upgrades, although it is in serious need of upgrading either way. There are also some people who feel we are not that far away anymore from people producing their own power at their homes with solar. Advancements in solar panel technology are making them lighter and cheaper. Also, as battery technology advances, some people invision homes being self sufficient electrically, using solar panels and a future super battery to store power generated during the day for use at night. I am not sure this is right around the corner, and it is heavily reliant on the elusive super battery, but it is interesting to think about. I won't be the first to own an electric car. I really have nothing against them, other than the range, recharge time, and cost. In time, if those issues were resolved I would be more interested. At this stage, I would much sooner buy a plug in Volt type of drivetrain in a car than an all electric Tesla since I wouldn't be limited to the battery charge, or having to wait a long period of time for a recharge.

This is the group think bubble that is going to pop soon. Assuming that the problems with green tech WILL be solved before they are solved. Just because some greenie's wacko business model was built on some assumption doesn't make that assumption come true.

Next time you hear some greenie talking up their solutions ask him if he can tell you the difference between power and energy.

Next time you see some windmill story look hard to see if you can see anyone quote how much energy the windmill farm/tower/whatever is actually expected to produce. Be ready to laugh hard when all they will actually talk about is nameplate power specifications.

So did you hear the one about everyone having electric cars and then all the collective energy storage of the car's batteries will make windmill somehow make sense?

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 05-22-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: Tesla bought NUMMI from Toyota. http://www.autoguide.com/au...s-in-california.html

That's what I keep reading, but it never mentions a purchase price. Kinda odd arraingment IMO. Tesla needs cash badly---Toyota agrees to invest 50 big ones in Tesla, then Tesla "buys" NUMMI FROM Toyota and they share the facilty to build separate vehicles. with Toyota using some or all of Tesla's technology???

Sumthin just don't jive with all that from my viewpoint.

I don't see what the big deal is? The Tesla just like ANY other electric car will not be viable till we have a quantum leap in electrical storage. Till then its only a novelty in transportation.
Tesla has nothing to offer us. So Toyota got nothing, no big deal.

Let 'em have it.

The electric car is a pipe dream anyway.

People are convenience junkies. A gas powered car gives 300 miles of range for 5 minutes of refueling. Until an electric car can compete with that or at least offer a serious cost savings in return for greater inconvenience it is doomed to fail.

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: The way sooo many people are totally head over heels about electric cars solving all the world problems, I'd wait just a bit more than then short sell any electric car stock and wait for the green bubble to burst wide open

The green bubble won't even be a bubble. It won't get off the ground. More like a fart in a hottub.

quote Originally posted by FrugalFiero: I also personally fail to see the great advantage of electric vehicles. Doesn't it still need electricity to recharge? Isn't the majority of our electricity produced by fossil fuels, and don't those fossil fuels produce pollution? What"s going to happen when say 40% of electric vehicle owners have to plug their vehicles into an already maxxed out electric grid? Technological advancements are commendable, but if they really don't solve a major problem like fossil fuel use, is it worth pursuing? Please enlighten me if I am missing something.

Ive said same thing over and over.

My X father in law had a 49 chevy pickup he kept at home solely to haul trash to the dump. It was like 20 years old then. He never hardly put any gasoline in it. He had an oil well on his property and ran it on what they called 'drip gas'. It was just a big catch can to catch all the leaking oil as it was pumped out...totally unrefined. I dont know if you ran on JUST that, or mixed it in with some gasoline. I do remember watching him drive it out in the field and pour the can into the gas tank all the time.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Ive said same thing over and over. My X father in law had a 49 chevy pickup he kept at home solely to haul trash to the dump. It was like 20 years old then. He never hardly put any gasoline in it. He had an oil well on his property and ran it on what they called 'drip gas'. It was just a big catch can to catch all the leaking oil as it was pumped out...totally unrefined. I dont know if you ran on JUST that, or mixed it in with some gasoline. I do remember watching him drive it out in the field and pour the can into the gas tank all the time.

Its an internal combustion motor (probly diesal from what you are sayin).......take off all the electronics, and it will run on just about anything you can pour into it.
If you make road tar liquid enough---it'll run

I remember Tesla looking for buyers, but nobody came to the table; neither did the Big Three. Once again, the American's will look back at this venture and cry foul once the two combine they're resources and pass the Big Three in this field. Tesla has the technology and Toyota has the strict discipline to make it work and maybe under 20k. The Tesla is nicely styled, but for 100k; no average person in they're right mind would purchase a car, but Toyota seeing the big picture--volumes. Most people in the Bay Area only need 250 mile range. Sure, they might iron out the range later on, but for now; give me a Tesla for 20k that has a range of 500-miles and I'm on board.

------------------



"Friends don't let their friends drive stock."

quote Originally posted by madcurl: I remember Tesla looking for buyers, but nobody came to the table; neither did the Big Three. Once again, the American's will look back at this venture and cry foul once the two combine they're resources and pass the Big Three in this field. Tesla has the technology and Toyota has the strict discipline to make it work and maybe under 20k. The Tesla is nicely styled, but for 100k; no average person in they're right mind would purchase a car, but Toyota seeing the big picture--volumes. Most people in the Bay Area only need 250 mile range. Sure, they might iron out the range later on, but for now; give me a Tesla for 20k that has a range of 500-miles and I'm on board.

What he said.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Just like cap and tax and the decades old effort by enviros to eliminate fossil fuels, it's more like "a solution in search of a problem". They *thought* they'd found a problem in global warming. Problem is, the globe refused to cooperate.

Self imposed conservation to be a responsible person and cap/trade are 2 totally separate things. Also looking toward the future and support alternative tech to assist isn't a bad thing.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Self imposed conservation to be a responsible person and cap/trade are 2 totally separate things. Also looking toward the future and support alternative tech to assist isn't a bad thing.

Agreed. I'd add that reasonable research into alternative fuels and energy are a very good thing, but government mandates, shoved down our throats, isn't, won't can can't be.