Mexican Auto Workers cut wages to "compete" with China

This is pretty astounding. Mexico's auto unions agree to cut wages:
Wage concessions were apparently key to persuading Ford Motor Co. to direct many of the 4,500 new jobs involved in building Fiestas to the Ford plant in Cuautitlan, on the outskirts of Mexico City. Union leaders at the plant told The Associated Press they had agreed to cut wages for new hires to about half of the current wage of $4.50 per hour.
"We agreed to it," said Ford union leader Juan Jose Sosa Arreola. "We need to be more competitive. That's the truth. That's a reality."
The United Auto Workers union had hoped to preserve American jobs by offering a two-tier wage system last fall, cutting starting wages for new U.S. workers by half to about $14.20 an hour. But it hasn't worked -- the jobs are flowing to Mexico, where starting wages at some plants also have been two-tiered, to as little as $1.50 per hour with a lot less of the related pension and health care costs of U.S. workers.
With labor costs like these, Mexico is staying competitive with China, where an average worker at a foreign-owned factory or joint venture can make $2 to $6 per hour. While Mexican benefit costs run higher, Mexico may have already won the low-wage race
The Race to the Bottom is on, with the ultimate low wage workforce being a surf or slave class.
‹ Department of Labor gives ripped off employees the brush off, doesn't enforce basic employment law Richard Trumka Elected AFL-CIO President ›

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Labor ground into the dirt, bankers elevated.
Submitted by Anonymous Drive-by (not verified) on Mon, 09/28/2009 - 17:53.
Yes and if Americans are thinking that they are going to be exempt from this race to the bottom, they are delusional. If pundits and intellectuals believe that we may take a hit in the West but China will be the new America, they're fooling themselves. The Chinese or Indian "miracle" is based on very cheap labor. If that changes the miracle is ashes. If techno-junkies believe that technology will save our collective butts they are ignorant of modern history. How many bank workers lost their careers to auto-tellers? Even jobs like radiology are now being outsourced via the internet to docs in India making $5 / hr. The guarantee of getting a good paying job after earning a degree in areas like engineering or even business is becoming nul and void. This final descent into oligarchical feudalism will not be stopped unless we the people force the CEOs and their politician toadies to stand down. And that won't happen unless We The People stand

http://www.economicpopulist...-wages-compete-china

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

Perhaps it is time to... aww who am I kidding, nobody cares anymore.

Brad

And the moral of the story.....

The Mexicans get to keep their jobs; while the Americans keep losing theirs.

Maybe those 'warriors of labor' would have been better off agreeing to a decent wage comparable to other American workers in similar lines of work; rather than insist that the company close those plants and move them elsewhere to get the work done without going broke in the process.

Also, notice the dem party is not lifting a finger to do anything about those jobs going to Mexico and China. They have absolute power but are not lifting a finger on behalf of the displaced workers. Don't miss out on that tidbit. And don't mistake government subsidized jobs making snake oil as any kind of attempt to curtail the race to the bottom.

[This message has been edited by D B Cooper (edited 12-04-2009).]

Brad you are right, no one cares if they have any money and a job, they could care less.

The Global economy is going to save us all, well at least the owners will win.

I really don’t believe those here think because they have an education they will not be outsourced. But they do.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: So Americans should also work for 3 bucks a day to keep their jobs? Steve

Of course not. They are just going to have to find new jobs in industries that their unions haven't chased away or destroyed yet.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: I really don’t believe those here think because they have an education they will not be outsourced. But they do.

What is your freaking problem with anyone that has an education man!

Everyone is getting outsourced.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: "We need to be more competitive. That's the truth. That's a reality."

That's capitalism.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: The Global economy is going to save us all, well at least the owners will win.

No, the owners will not, anymore than we will lose. Less money earned means less money to spend. Prices will have to come down also.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Yes and if Americans are thinking that they are going to be exempt from this race to the bottom, they are delusional.

This is a fact, as in a fact of life.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: This final descent into oligarchical feudalism will not be stopped unless we the people force the CEOs and their politician toadies to stand down. And that won't happen unless We The People stand.

And this is a pipe dream.
Sorry Steve, just how I see it.

quote Everyone is getting outsourced

I'm not. It's against international law to export grouchy old crumudgeons..

quote Originally posted by maryjane: I'm not. It's against international law to export grouchy old crumudgeons..

Finally, A protected national resource and it is you? We can't catch a break!!!!!

I did. yur stuck with me too

Which is better $3/hr with a job or $0/hr and no job? Thats right with no job welfare would take care of you so the guy with the $3/hr job gets to subsiize the guy with no job. So why work, the rich will be taxed to subsidize those who chose not to get education and have no marketable job skills.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Mexican Auto Workers cut wages to "compete" with China This is pretty astounding. Mexico's auto unions agree to cut wages: Wage concessions were apparently key to persuading Ford Motor Co. to direct many of the 4,500 new jobs involved in building Fiestas to the Ford plant in Cuautitlan, on the outskirts of Mexico City. Union leaders at the plant told The Associated Press they had agreed to cut wages for new hires to about half of the current wage of $4.50 per hour. "We agreed to it," said Ford union leader Juan Jose Sosa Arreola. "We need to be more competitive. That's the truth. That's a reality." The United Auto Workers union had hoped to preserve American jobs by offering a two-tier wage system last fall, cutting starting wages for new U.S. workers by half to about $14.20 an hour. But it hasn't worked -- the jobs are flowing to Mexico, where starting wages at some plants also have been two-tiered, to as little as $1.50 per hour with a lot less of the related pension and health care costs of U.S. workers. With labor costs like these, Mexico is staying competitive with China, where an average worker at a foreign-owned factory or joint venture can make $2 to $6 per hour. While Mexican benefit costs run higher, Mexico may have already won the low-wage race The Race to the Bottom is on, with the ultimate low wage workforce being a surf or slave class.

Why is the word compete put as "compete"?

Ford Motor Company needs a limited amount of workers. There are more people willing to do that work than there are positions. Those people decided not to leave it to chance whether they were one of the people that get one of the jobs or not. Therefore, they COMPETED for it. There are no parentheses. That is what they were doing.

There is no slave class. YOU wouldn't do that job for $1.50 per hour. OK. Don't. This isn't slavery. Maybe somebody ELSE VOLUNTARILY will. "Well, those people are desperate." Yeah. Probably. $1.50 per hour is better to them than $.0.00 per hour.

Maybe you haven't ventured out of Maine and gone to other countries. Countries where the government doesn't take money from people and disperse it to people in the form of food stamps, unemployment, and welfare. Well, I HAVE traveled and spent time working with those people. Eating a couple of cups of rice and some beans every day, day after day, is pretty motivating.

If Ford can train those people to make an acceptable product for $1.50/hour instead of $14.20/hour, those people in other countries will take it.

And if you make a business work in a hostile tax environment (to fund paying people that WON'T work for a certain amount per hour, but STILL think they are entitled to eat like comparative KINGS to those people, AND have cell phones, AND have cable television AND have cars), and INCENTIVIZE those companies to make their product in foreign countries, well, what did you THINK was going to happen.

Hey, here is a news flash for you. These are BUSINESSES. These are NOT social services organizations whose charter is to provide jobs, insurance, and security for people.


Business people want to get rich. They are greedy. Yeah. Naughty. BUT, they STILL create wealth and opportunity that can be accessed by people willing to work for them while they get rich. Americans don't like the portion of that wealth that they get out of working to make the business people rich? And the government wants to siphon off too much of it? You know what? It is a big world out there. We aren't the ONLY place in the world to make stuff.


You want politicians to "stand down". Funny. Me, too. "Stand down" on taxing and regulating our businesses to death so that they don't say, screw you, I'm moving my company to another country.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: I'm not. It's against international law to export grouchy old crumudgeons..

Not to mention the above market dried up in the '30's...................the 1830's!!

(I guess i'm back. Sorry.)

BOONIE !!!!!!

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: ... (I guess i'm back. Sorry.)

Wait...is that timestamp right? Boonie?

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: There is no slave class. YOU wouldn't do that job for $1.50 per hour. OK. Don't. This isn't slavery. Maybe somebody ELSE VOLUNTARILY will. "Well, those people are desperate." Yeah. Probably. $1.50 per hour is better to them than $.0.00 per hour.

The problem here is that the cost of living is less in these other countries, hence businesses can pay these people less and they are happy. I recall a story about a big stink made about some auto company (I think it was GM) putting up a plant in some someplace in China. The complaint was that this company was taking advantage of the people there by only paying them something like $2.00 a day. However when one of the workers was interviewed she said she was happy to work there as she now had money to send her kids to school and was even thinking of buying herself a new car the following year. Where in the US/Canada can a person not only afford to live but buy a new car making $2.00 a day? Also in this article it was noted that when the plant first opened people walked to work, after a few months everyone had a bike to ride to work and a year later, most of the employee's had a car to drive to work.

It's not that people are desparate to work for only $1.50/hr, but more of the fact that $1.50/hr is a really good wage there. Companies see this and of course they are going to move operations there - more profits for themselves and share holders.

The thing here is that it is a catch 22, companies move to cut labour costs, locals are out of jobs and can no longer buy these products, company making these products go out of business because they are not selling as many products and can't make a profit, the whole economy collaspes and recession hits (a real one, not this one that we are in now).

quote Originally posted by cliffw: And this is a pipe dream. Sorry Steve, just how I see it.

If you click on the link you will see that those are not my words, they are in the article in the link.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: If you click on the link you will see that those are not my words, they are in the article in the link.

Yes, I saw that. I figured since you did not post otherwise that you agreed with it.
I don't care who you are. When you are poor, you have to buy the cheapest. When you are greedy and want to keep your money, you buy the cheapest. When you want to look like you have it all, all your stuff is cheap. I can't fault companies for having human nature.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: When are they going to wakeup?

The Mexicans did.

A Chinese auto worker makes about $2/hour and they have security.
The pay is OK, but the security is what makes the job attractive.
Think the Mexicans are thinking security?
Too bad the UAU was so concerned about pay and not worried about the security of the company back when things were rolling along.
Bet they are worried about it now.

quote Originally posted by partfiero: Bet they are worried about it now.

Why would they ? They essentially own GM. Now they can show the world how it is done.

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: Perhaps it is time to... aww who am I kidding, nobody cares anymore. Brad

Yup, my give-a-damn is as busted as everybody else......

eff the bankers, industrialists, lawyers, politicians and other assorted sewage.....

Screw 'em.......think I am gonna have a siesta, and if my sleeping hurts their profit margins, they should call somebody who cares (if they can find one of them anymore)

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Why would they ? They essentially own GM. Now they can show the world how it is done.

How what's done ? Graft ?

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: The problem here is that the cost of living is less in these other countries, hence businesses can pay these people less and they are happy. It's not that people are desparate to work for only $1.50/hr, but more of the fact that $1.50/hr is a really good wage there.

I was flying to San Luis Potosi, Mexico on a mission trip 3 summers ago. City of about 1.5 million about 4 hours north of Mexico City. I talked to a couple of guys on the plane and found out they worked for Remy Auto Parts. They were moving a production line down to their plant there (and out of the U.S., btw). They told me they were paying about $4/hr and they were willing to pay $8/hr, but the government asked them NOT to pay that much. They didn't want factory workers making more than nurses, for example, so they asked Remy to only pay $4/hr.

So, yes, the cost of living is lower TO AN EXTENT. But I can assure you. At $1.50, those people are feeling the pinch. At $4, they are living pretty decent. AT $0.00, well...that is more than feeling the pinch.

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: The problem here is that the cost of living is less in these other countries, hence businesses can pay these people less and they are happy. I recall a story about a big stink made about some auto company (I think it was GM) putting up a plant in some someplace in China. The complaint was that this company was taking advantage of the people there by only paying them something like $2.00 a day. However when one of the workers was interviewed she said she was happy to work there as she now had money to send her kids to school and was even thinking of buying herself a new car the following year. Where in the US/Canada can a person not only afford to live but buy a new car making $2.00 a day? Also in this article it was noted that when the plant first opened people walked to work, after a few months everyone had a bike to ride to work and a year later, most of the employee's had a car to drive to work. It's not that people are desparate to work for only $1.50/hr, but more of the fact that $1.50/hr is a really good wage there. Companies see this and of course they are going to move operations there - more profits for themselves and share holders. The thing here is that it is a catch 22, companies move to cut labour costs, locals are out of jobs and can no longer buy these products, company making these products go out of business because they are not selling as many products and can't make a profit, the whole economy collaspes and recession hits (a real one, not this one that we are in now).

Finally, some one who gets it. That is exactly the problem, if our wages go down to 1.50/hr all of our expenses will have to plummet or there will be no point of working. By working, you won't be able to provide a roof over your head, food for your family, gas for your car, unless all these things fall and our economy looks exactly like China.

I can't afford a new car, My house cost 7,000. Yes, that is 7 grand not 70. My truck cost me $1,300. Without a house payment, and a car payment I still struggle to pay the bills. I work 70+ hours a week and am college educated. I drive truck now, was an electronic technician, before that went over-seas. The point I am making, is our wages are falling, and the cost of living is going up. There are people in China making 1.50/hr living better than I, and I seriously doubt they are working any more than I am. Eventually the market will correct itself, the cost of living will plummet here, and the corporations will learn painfully, until then people will starve, and families will be broken.

The lowest common denominator. Trick is to lift others up instead of bringing us down. This is real basic stuff but,,,,,,,,,,

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: The lowest common denominator. Trick is to lift others up instead of bringing us down. This is real basic stuff but,,,,,,,,,,

...except that bringing others up to our level is called inflation and that has to be kept under control as well (if it rises too fast, the economy will also collapse) - there is a fine line that we are walking on...there is no 'easy' quick fix.

I am sure that the workers in these 3rd world countries will soon realize that they need a raise, to help them pay for price increases in thier economy, and so on, and so on - so eventually thier cost of living may be the same as ours, but it will take time.


I think some people have the right idea, dress in some rags, go and stand on a busy street corner 'beggin' for money and at the end of the day walk around the corner to your new Lexus and drive home with your tax free income.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 12-08-2009).]

The Union will always get paid. I'm wondering if the will have a union dues concession for how poorly they represent workers. It's best for people to kick out the parasitic union and represent themselves.

this is a tricky bit
once upon a time, we created immigration laws to protect our workers from waves of foreign workers, who would work cheaper. that is why there is such thing as an "illegal alien". to protect or existing workforce. if this does not matter anymore, it does not matter anymore. and there should be no reason to have a classifciation of "illegal alien". after all, what else is the problem with "illegal aliens"?

but, anyways - now with free trade agreements, we now dont even have to worry about either illegal aliens/foreign workers OR protecting the USA workforce - just move the whole economic machine somewhere else. the owner still makes his money - even if the USA loses money. the nation no longer matters. we are just citizens of the Earth now. "the nation" is just the name of the tax man you are betrothed to.

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: Eventually the market will correct itself, the cost of living will plummet here, and the corporations will learn painfully, until then people will starve, and families will be broken.

This is the real problem. Just how many need to lose?

Just how many,

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: people will starve, and families will be broken.

It is all well and good for those still making a living, but those who are not are going to increase as is happening now.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: ... once upon a time, we created immigration laws to protect our workers from waves of foreign workers, who would work cheaper. that is why there is such thing as an "illegal alien". to protect or existing workforce.

You got a source ? Not the way I remember it.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: It is all well and good for those still making a living, but those who are not are going to increase as is happening now.

I have been unemployed for over a year. Some might say underemployed but I am not working for anyone. If I am not making a living am I dieing ?
Maybe I am lucky. I found out early in life that tomorrow can be more crappy than today. There were times I thought it could get no worse. I found out how dumb I was. I strive to do the best that I can. Even though I am failing miserably I expect no one or any company to do the same.
Then, I look at my life. Every bit of it is due to me. Failure or success. I know that I can not count on anybody or anything to change that. I also see that really I do not have it so bad. Compared to others that I have known all my life I did not succeed as well as they have. The same can be said for some that I have known who did not do as well as me. Depressing to me, my achievements, because I know I could have done better. Tomorrow is another day.
There are many in TV/movies who get their shot at fame and it is a one time deal. Others go on to an illustrious life long career. The ones with a one time shot are not making the ?living? that they once were. Then, I also notice immigrants who come here with nothing and make it. Which has got to be tough. If they can do it, I should still be able to do it.
I have been depressed. Only because I have been looking at what I want, not what I have. I had been looking, not thinking. I think I need to build me a better mousetrap.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: You got a source ? Not the way I remember it.

how do you remember it?

Which part of it ? Immigration laws have a long history. Do you have a link for your quote ?

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Which part of it ? Immigration laws have a long history. Do you have a link for your quote ?

not at all. trying to think of any other reason for immigration laws. can you think of any?
the problem was the immigrants would work for so much less

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: not at all. trying to think of any other reason for immigration laws. can you think of any? the problem was the immigrants would work for so much less

We were once considered the melting pot. The first American here was an immigrant.
Some countries we did not allow citizens from, without more stringent background checks. Political asylum would be another immigration law. Population control. I am really not versed on immigration law but I have never heard it was to guarantee us a job. Heck, we imported them to finish the intercontinental railroad. Disease control.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: We were once considered the melting pot. The first American here was an immigrant. Some countries we did not allow citizens from, without more stringent background checks. Political asylum would be another immigration law. Population control. I am really not versed on immigration law but I have never heard it was to guarantee us a job. Heck, we imported them to finish the intercontinental railroad. Disease control.

yup. in fact it was that very railroad thing & gold rush which made the job protection an issue, as california got swamped with chinese laborers
the cheap chinese labor. prior to that - show up, live for 2 years - and thats that.
yes, there are single items, like asylum & refugee events.

the entire idea of "illegal aliens"/immigration is for job protection of US citizens from cheap foriegn labor.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: .. the entire idea of "illegal aliens"/immigration is for job protection of US citizens from cheap foriegn labor.

Again, do you have any facts to back that up ?

When the minimum wage laws get repealed, and everyone's making $3 an hour to be competitive with Mexico........

Will doctors still be getting paid $50,000 to set a broken arm, or will everyone be flying to India like they're already starting to?

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Will doctors still be getting paid $50,000 to set a broken arm, or will everyone be flying to India like they're already starting to?

Do they charge $50,000.00 dollars to set a broken arm in Mexico ?