Microsoft recently made a change to the licence agreement saying that a new motherboard is equal to a new computer, hence you need to purchase a new Windows licence.
Here is what Microsoft has to say:
“An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a “new personal computer” to which Microsoft® OEM operating system software cannot be transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created and the license of new operating system software is required.”
The reason Microsoft gave for this term is that “Microsoft needed to have one base component “left standing” that would still define that original PC. Since the motherboard contains the CPU and is the “heart and soul” of the PC, when the motherboard is replaced (for reasons other than defect) a new PC is essentially created.”
Microsoft sent a memo to its OEM partners asking them to enforce this new policy, every time they upgrade a computer for a client.
From the Microsoft License FAQ, question 11: Rather than purchase completely new PCs, my organization performs in-place upgrades to the hardware on many of our computers. We often times only replace the motherboard, processor, and memory. Since the COA is still on the case and the OS is still installed on the hard drive, this computer is still licensed, right?
Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on your computer and maintain the license for the original Microsoft OEM operating system software, with the exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard. An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new personal computer." Microsoft OEM operating system software cannot be transferred from one computer to another. Therefore, if the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect then a new computer has been created, the original license expires, and a new full operating system license (not upgrade) is required. This is true even if the computer is covered under Software Assurance or other Volume License programs.
..and everyone jumped my ass a few months back when I went on a rant about M$. Ain't karma a ***** ?
Gates is going to "bully" himself right off the map, and drive M$ right into the ground with his licensing tactics. The government is involving themselves in everything else, I wonder when theyr'e going to come to our rescue and lay some rules about licensing rights for the purchasing consumer?
Well like MinnGreenGT, I see alot more "Defective" motherboards in our future.
For the record, this only covers OEM liscenses. I.E. Dell, HP, etc etc etc. OEM system builders basicly. This does not for the moment include Home or Pro Retail copies.
So worry not, your store bought copies are still good over and over and over.
[This message has been edited by 8Ball (edited 02-20-2006).]
How long until MS goes to a subscription fee of say $50 a month to use Windows? Glad I can still install the same copy of Win98 on every computer I want
Can they even do this legally? Since when did someone give them the power to decide what part makes a new computer. I mean surely, if you upgraded your motherboard and processor for a faster FSB, and you're using your old RAM, old video card, old hard drives, old case, monitor, sound card, etc., that doesn't mean you've got a new computer. When I think of a new computer, I see my old one sitting next to my new one, since they are indeed two seperate objects and thus one can be named new and requires a new license.
That's like saying, you have to pay for a new tag on your car everytime you change something on it.
How much is a new Windows license anyway? I know that a CAL is only like $25. Either way I don't see this being very effective.
[This message has been edited by IEatRice (edited 02-20-2006).]
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03:33 PM
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Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
It's an interesting license, but what I'm not sure why they're doing it (other than the obvioius, $$$). It's common practice at work for us to take a licensed piece of software and move it from one computer to another. We have one license, and only one person is using it at any given time.
This appears to only affect OEM software, since that is tied to the serial number of the PC it was sold with. If you bought a retail copy, I don't think it would have the same restriction.
From the Microsoft License FAQ, question 11: Rather than purchase completely new PCs, my organization performs in-place upgrades to the hardware on many of our computers. We often times only replace the motherboard, processor, and memory. Since the COA is still on the case and the OS is still installed on the hard drive, this computer is still licensed, right?
Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on your computer and maintain the license for the original Microsoft OEM operating system software, with the exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard. An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new personal computer." Microsoft OEM operating system software cannot be transferred from one computer to another. Therefore, if the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect then a new computer has been created, the original license expires, and a new full operating system license (not upgrade) is required. This is true even if the computer is covered under Software Assurance or other Volume License programs.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 02-20-2006).]
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04:46 PM
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
8Ball said: For the record, this only covers OEM liscenses. I.E. Dell, HP, etc etc etc. OEM system builders basicly. This does not for the moment include Home or Pro Retail copies.
So worry not, your store bought copies are still good over and over and over.
Worry not?! Let me tell you something.
Back when I had XP Home, I had to call India and beg them to re-activate my Windows install every time I upgraded the drivers for my motherboard. You see, WinXP Home automatically triggers re-activation if you change 4 or more pieces of hardware. Well, I guess the re-detection of all my motherboard's onboard stuff counted toward that.
For the first time in my life, I was actually discouraged from keeping my computer up-to-date. You see any irony in that?
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05:03 PM
Marvin McInnis Member
Posts: 11599 From: ~ Kansas City, USA Registered: Apr 2002
After we get our new PC built, I'm installing Linux on our current PC to see how well we like it. Who knows, we may end up moving over to Linux; and forgetting about Windows Vista altogether.
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09:08 AM
DeV8er Member
Posts: 747 From: Oak Ridge MO Registered: Oct 2004
Xandros when it was Corel Linux was cute. But given that, I would probably go with one of the more popular linux distros like Redhat, Drake, or Slackware. You can't go wrong with slackware!!!
I run Linux the majority of the time. But I still keep Windows on my machines because, A. I get paid to fix Windoze machines and B. I like to play my games But now that I have a modded xbox, I play games on my PC alot less, and am in linux alot more.
wonder how long untill the corprate version gets out again
but i mean ive NEVER seen one of those
I had one of those at one time, and it completly sucked due to the fact that you couldn't download and update it with SP1 and SP2. That's why I switched over to Media Center Edition.
I'm just getting tired of all the hoop jumping that Micro$uck makes the end user go through. If enough people get fed up with it, and switch to something else; Micro$uck's greed could ultimately be their downfall.
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03:15 PM
aqua-man Member
Posts: 1132 From: Pennsylvania, USA Registered: Nov 2002
That's why I have been using Windows 2000 pro and will not switch to XP. I load the same copy on a number of my machines and never have any problems with compatability. 2000 is very stable and never crashes. I just purchased another copy for $57.00 on the web just to have it. I went to microsoft's web site and purchased SP4 ($10.00) with all the security updates so I won't have to go and download them from their site.
Earl
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08:25 PM
Feb 22nd, 2006
Flamberge Member
Posts: 4268 From: Terra Sancta, TX Registered: Oct 2001
An interesting topic. Here's an age old question: I have my grandfather's axe. My father replaced the blade and I replaced the handle. Is it still my grandfather's axe?
(Microsoft's answer would probably be "No, so you have to pay us for the new axe.")
In a twisted way I see their side of it though. I don't agree with it, but I see their angle. They want to establish what makes a new computer, since it's all componentry to begin with. If you a buy a new motherboard, chances are it won't be compatible with your 4 year old components (or less compatible.) I wouldn't think most people buy motherboards that are newer and more modern than the ones they have and end up using a lot of pieces from the old system.
Microsoft is afraid someone will slip through the exceedingly small money cracks and beat the system by just buying a new computer via component upgrades and never actually "buy a new computer."
My question to the forum is: What would constitute a new computer? Someone above said one sitting next to my old one, which I agree with. It's like kitting a Fiero. if you turn your Fiero into a Fino, you didn't get a new car. So you don't owe the previous owner (or Pontiac) any money. Though you probably owe Archie money.
Flamberge
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12:35 AM
kslish Member
Posts: 1478 From: Womelsdorf, PA Registered: Apr 2000
Originally posted by Deabionni: I had one of those at one time, and it completly sucked due to the fact that you couldn't download and update it with SP1 and SP2.
Nothing a little Javascript and disabling of an IE ActiveX script won't fix. Not that I've done that mind you... (and I even have three XP licenses laying around....just hate Windows barfing every time I tinker with my systems).
Eventually M$ will shoot themselves in the foot by getting too greedy and people will start to look for alternatives. Linux isn't too scary for the average user anymore (Ubuntu is nice and free) and I'm currently getting kicks out of hacking Mac OS X to run on an average PC:
Not that Apple endorses this much either, but I just like building my own systems, not dealing with what some manufacturer thinks I want.
Ken S.
[This message has been edited by kslish (edited 02-22-2006).]
An interesting topic. Here's an age old question: I have my grandfather's axe. My father replaced the blade and I replaced the handle. Is it still my grandfather's axe?
(Microsoft's answer would probably be "No, so you have to pay us for the new axe.")
In a twisted way I see their side of it though. I don't agree with it, but I see their angle. They want to establish what makes a new computer, since it's all componentry to begin with. <snip>
Flamberge
Microsoft is changing the rules in the middle of the game. They established from the beginning that replacing a certain number of components constituted a "new" computer:
The 10 hardware characteristics used to determine the hardware hash are: Display Adapter, SCSI Adapter, IDE Adapter, Network Adapter MAC Address, RAM Amount Range (i.e. 0-64mb, 64-128mb, etc), Processor Type, Processor Serial Number, Hard Drive Device, Hard Drive Volume Serial Number, CD-ROM/CD-RW/DVD-ROM.
Granted, it's not really straight-forward, however, when M$ introduced the activation process, people balked, and M$ promised that the activation process wouldn't prevent people from upgrading their systems. Now that XP is holding a firm place in the market, and most people wouldn't want to go back to 2000 ir 98, they want to change the process. This is the classic "frog in boiling water" analogy. If you toss a frog into boiling water, it'll immediately jump out. But, if you put it in cold water, and gradually turn up the heat, it'll just sit there and be boiled to death. I think it's getting hot in here....
Just for those who hate M$ as much as me, you *can* save your activation info, and as long as you're reinstalling on the exact same system, this workaround for the activation process should work. This isn't a hack, it's only transferring your current activation information to a fresh install on the SAME computer. Any hardware changes or upgrades will invalidate this workaround.
1. Double-click My Computer 2. Double-click on the "C" drive 3. Go to the C:\Windows\System32 folder (you may have to click on the link that says "Show The contents of this folder") 4. Find the files "wpa.dbl" and "wpa.bak" and copy them to a safe location. You can copy them on a floppy drive or burn it onto a CD or DVD. 5. After you have reinstalled Windows XP on your reformatted hard drive, click "No" when asked if you want to go ahead and go through the activation process 6. Reboot your computer into SafeMode (you can either press F8 as Windows is booting up to see the Windows Advanced Options menu and select SAFEBOOT_OPTION=Minimal or follow the instructions in Starting Windows XP in SafeMode 7. Double-click My Computer 8. Double-click on the "C" drive 9. Go to the C:\Windows\System32 folder (you may have to click on the link that says "Show The contents of this folder") 10. Find the file "wpa.dbl" and "wpa.bak" (if it exists) and rename them to "wpadbl.new" and "wpabak.new" 11. Copy your original "wpa.dbl" and "wpa.bak" files from your floppy disk, CD or DVD into the C:\Windows\System32 folder 12. Restart your system (if you followed the directions in Starting Windows XP in SafeMode you may need to go back into MSCONFIG to turn off booting into SafeMode)
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01:52 PM
manofiero Member
Posts: 229 From: Weyburn, Saskatchewan, Canada Registered: Oct 2005
How long until MS goes to a subscription fee of say $50 a month to use Windows? Glad I can still install the same copy of Win98 on every computer I want
They've been talking about doing that.
This has already been an issue with XP, if you change more than 3 parameters of your hardware, you have to re register windows. BUT you didnt have to buy a new liscence. I think it only applies to home or something. I dont know but crap like this is why I dont mind that Ive never purchased a copy of windows in my life. Im sure all the new microsoft based games will force you to upgrade to the newest version of windows.
Traditionaly when you buy something, you own that something. Which has always applied to liscences. Why the hell can I not buy your $200 crap and when my pc gets old, upgrade to a new one and move the installation over there?
------------------ Boost is like Venereal Disease, one night of passion can result in weeks of pain (and work.) Its not always about who gets to the finish line first, its who looks good when they get there. 'Course it doesnt hurt to have both. http:\\www.myspace.com\keeptherubbersidedown
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Marvin McInnis Member
Posts: 11599 From: ~ Kansas City, USA Registered: Apr 2002
Traditionaly when you buy something, you own that something. Which has always applied to liscences.
Not true. Software has always been licensed, and until recently software licenses (if you read them) have always included language to the effect that "this software may only be used on the computer on which it was originally installed." This limitation made perfect sense clear into the mid 1980s, when software would work correctly on some hardware but no on other hardware. If a naive customer "upgraded" their hardware and the software began to malfunction, who do you think the customer would blame? The software, of course, so software vendors sought to protect themselves from this kind of thing.
Think about it. For example, consider a computer used for medical treatment, where human health and safety are involved. If the customer "upgrades" the hardware without consulting the software vendor, the software vendor should not reasonably be held responsible if the software malfunctions and someone is harmed as a result.
That said, as someone who has made my living developing and licensing proprietary software for 30 years ... software which sometimes involves human health and safety ... in most cases I don't agree with "original installation only" software licenses. Most of my software license agreements include language to the effect that "this software may only be installed on one computer at a time." At the same time, however, I also disclaim any warranty if the software is installed on a computer I did not provide or on computer hardware that I have not validated for use with the software, or if the customer modifies the software for use other than its original intended purpose.
quote
Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC:
... crap like this is why I dont mind that Ive never purchased a copy of windows in my life.
If this is true, and if you use Windows on a computer you own, you, sir, are a thief.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 02-23-2006).]
If this is true, and if you use Windows on a computer you own, you, sir, are a thief.
what if he got a version of windows with an unlimited activation from his school? I know of a couple schools that give their students, xp pro, office, visual studios, etc... for free (im sure its either in the tuition, or microsoft does this to have more people learn the software)
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10:55 AM
86GT3.4DOHC Member
Posts: 10007 From: Marion Ohio Registered: Apr 2004
If this is true, and if you use Windows on a computer you own, you, sir, are a thief.
WHO HOO!!! *sneaky eyes* (mission imossible theme) da da du du da du dun dun dun-dun da da dada daaaaaa dudududndDA
If they actualy explained and enforced that you could only install the software on one and only one computer, they would be out of busniess. (and please dont [sic] my typo's and by leaving it in the quotes everyone knows you didnt write it. I dont know what you're trying to prove there, lol. ANYWAY I wouldnt buy a computer game that I could not transfer onto a new computer, Id go out and buy a console game, as much better as PC games are, I wouldnt waste my money. Ive got games that I still tinker around with that I had on my original 4.5Mhz PC. Course the ones that are thread clocked are a little fast, so I cant use them. I just dug out mechwarrior 4 which I have not played since it was new, like 2 PC's ago, does that make me a thief?
Incidently I have 2 DVDs that contain every major version of windows ever published COME ARREST ME!!
Somehow I dont think Bill Gates is suffering too much because I took a copy of windows a customer purchased and reinstalled it on thier new PC. What the heck is the point of having a static liscense if you cannot continue to use said liscense as long as its only used on one PC? Why not just make the CD self destruct in the CDROM after install, lol. How would you like it if every few years GM introduced a engine, and the government started making better faster highways that you could only drive a new engine on. Then the gas stations stopped making gas for your old car. You like your old car, but cannot go anywhere new with it and everyone else is going new places you cannot now. But NO if you upgrade the engine if you upgrade anything you have to buy a whole new car.
Its bad enough already that M$ is putting so much CRAP in their new OS that you have to upgrade your PC just to use it. I would still be using 98 if software companies still made software for it. I dont need these gay menus or all this BS warnings, or the rounded edges on the start menu.
I would be interested to see exactly where in the windows EULA it says that because I have worked in more than one company as an IT tech were procedure when a computer went down was to swap it out and install the liscence on the replacement. These were some sizeable companys country wide, so I would have thought they would cover their butts better. It probably is in there somewhere...
I dunno, when they get to the point that Bill Gates is watching over your computer every second I'll just keep my windows systems off the internet and just use Linux to get online. Ive already got "pcsighanide" I know thats misspelled, thats what I named it. I wrote it so that a certain combination of keystrokes, or certain mis steps at the password screen immediately locks the system and begins destroying data by over writing it with random data, if it does not complete, upon reboot the windows loading screen pops up while a quick format is done, then (I had to upgrade this with the bigger hard drives) It randomly over writes random sections of the disk, then if it is allowed to continue it will begin overwriting the entire disk with random binary data. Not sure what to do about all the stuff I have on DVD and CD but somehow I doubt the black helicopters are going to be coming to my house anyway.
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06:59 PM
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
I don't understand why MS can't sell their product to private individuals on a per-person basis, instead of a per-computer basis. I think that strategy would solve many of the problems they're dealing with (and causing) now.
IMO, one simple little device could solve alot of the problems associated with computer usage, not just the ones related to Windows authentication. I'm referring to a USB memory stick. MS would provide one with each (private individual) copy of Windows. The memory stick would be required to install Windows, and to start the computer thereafter. And only your memory stick would work with your copy of Windows... just like a car key. The memory stick could also be used as an emergency boot-up device, with diagnostic/repair software, etc etc. There are a lot of possibilities.
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08:29 PM
86GT3.4DOHC Member
Posts: 10007 From: Marion Ohio Registered: Apr 2004
Real high end software has stuff like that they're called "hardware keys" Thats a great idea, but its easy to emulate them with some software, or hack the software so it bypasses authentication.
I just wish someone would do that for all data so I could use one of the copys I have.
But thats how I always thought Windows worked, you buy a copy you own a copy. Do whatever you want as long as you are the only one using it. IMO they charge WAY to much for already questionable software to play games like that, but what are you gonna do? Mac, hell no, Id go back to MS-DOS first, linux good alternative but not main stream enough to be completely compatable. If you ask me its more of an monopoly than an oliogopy. When mac goes under I dont know what the government is going to do, M$ is already bordering on a monopoly as it is.
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09:27 PM
Marvin McInnis Member
Posts: 11599 From: ~ Kansas City, USA Registered: Apr 2002
The OEM thing has been around for awhile, that is why I have a full retail version. I never buy prebuilt loaded computers so the retail version is the way to go. I also have Redhat, Solairs 2.51, 8, 9, and 10, HP-UX, and some other variants, but if you want to remain compatible with the rest of the world and have ready to use software windows is what you need.
Sean
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11:01 PM
TaurusThug Member
Posts: 4271 From: Simpsonville, SC Registered: Aug 2003
I had one of those at one time, and it completly sucked due to the fact that you couldn't download and update it with SP1 and SP2. That's why I switched over to Media Center Edition.
I'm just getting tired of all the hoop jumping that Micro$uck makes the end user go through. If enough people get fed up with it, and switch to something else; Micro$uck's greed could ultimately be their downfall.
nah... it works w/ sp2.. i mean ive been told it works w/ sp2
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11:19 PM
Feb 24th, 2006
FierceGT Member
Posts: 111 From: Westerville, Oh., USA Registered: Jan 2005
I can see recording companies eventually taking advantage of this too.... "You can only use this CD to play the recorded music on one player. Once the CD is mated to that player it will not work on any other player. If the speakers or amplifier is changed you will need to purchase a new CD." Where will it stop!?
that's lame... I guess we'll be seeing a lot more "defective boards" being replaced now!
But now that I have a modded xbox, I play games on my PC alot less, and am in linux alot more.
(and I even have three XP licenses laying around....just hate Windows barfing every time I tinker with my systems). 
