ok so maybe probably could have already been talked about but hey cliff just posted about saying use the search button so im asking instead :-P

on yahoo they had an article about best movie cars of all time and one was the bond car lotus esprit.
http://autos.yahoo.com/news...ars-of-all-time.html

i had to do a double take on that car cus at first i thought it was a fiero but obviously since the movie was made in the 70s is wasnt. but serisouly that front bumper looks alot like the 84 front and with GM owning lotus and all and the fiero having the legendary lotus suspesion (only availible on the 82 model oddly enough) i figured maybe just maybe thats where it came from?

Probably a bit of an influence to be fair, the bumperpads I thought were to represent the corporate identity at the time since the Firebird had 'em too. But yeah - at the right angle a white bumperpad looks kinda like the Bond Esprit

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In the video from the front view they look identical.

According to Hulki, in the speech he gave at the 20th Anniversary event in Michigan, the only connection between Lotus and the Fiero was that GM bought a share of Lotus so that they could see how Lotus produced such outstanding paint jobs, thinking they had some advanced technology. Turns out it was a guy in a hangar, he'd spray a part, if it didn't come out perfect he'd sand it off and try again. There was no connection between the body work, the suspension, or any other aspect of the Fiero design and Lotus.

Or maybe both Lotus and GM were paying attention to what AC had already done.

http://www.diseno-art.com/e.../cars/ac_3000me.html

Possibly Japan too.

[This message has been edited by RedlinePlus (edited 10-10-2011).]

Lotus never had anything whatsoever to do with the Fiero.
Hulki Aldikacti was asked and has said flat out Lotus had no involvement.

quote Originally posted by RedlinePlus: Or maybe both Lotus and GM were paying attention to what AC had already done. http://www.diseno-art.com/e.../cars/ac_3000me.html Possibly Japan too.

How come I haven't heard of the AC 3000 before.
What a deja vu.
I swear they came off the same drafting table as our cars.

Thanks for posting the link.
I'm going to research this car in detail.

If your interested:

http://www.ac3000me.com/ac3000me/index.php

Nolan

ya that is pretty cool ive never heard of the AC either.

It's amazing how much like Fieros they are:

I think the Fiero is better proportioned.

The AC 3000ME... yeah, it's got its similarities, but the Esprit is older, and the Fiat X1/9 is even older still - both I would have cited as equally great influences.

i gotta ask these are all american cars (except for the lotus) why did they choose a small wheel base as compared to the italian mid engine cars?

There is no lotus connection however there are several threads on this...
If an ex employee of lotus designed anything he was employed by GM so then nothing lotus.
If any part was lotus inspired it maybe the front suspension it isn't lotus designed but it may certainly have been influenced.
The Macpherson strut was first designed for a fiat but Porsche don't make mention as Designed by Fiat either.

quote Originally posted by Niterrorz: ok so maybe probably could have already been talked about but hey cliff just posted about saying use the search button so im asking instead :-P

but if you did do a search you would find your answer wasn't hidden 30 pages deep

http://www.fierosearch.com/...sion&Action=DoSearch

1:
"Only year they were made with famous Lotus suspension that outhandled Ferrari." (General Fiero Chat - by Fiero Finale, started: 05-20-2010, last post: 2010-05-21 11:43:53 CEST)
Why does this myth seem to continue with the Lotus suspension in the Fiero? I saw this on Craigslist...http://chicago.craigslist.o.../cto/1750005717.htmlHere is the ad in the event it gets deleted/removed: quoteReal clean 88 Fiero GT. Last year they were made. Only year they were made with...
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2:
Lotus suspension: Fact or Fiction (Archive: TD&Q - by Rocky64, started: 04-30-2004, last post: 2004-10-15 10:18:49 CEST)
I've had a Fiero for little more than a year and I've read numerous times that the '88 suspension was designed by Lotus... I've also read a number of times that the Lotus suspension claim is just an urban legend... But then it seems that I still quite often see people claiming that their '88...
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3:
For gods sake, It's not a Lotus suspension! (88) (Archive: GFC - by Black-Azz-GT, started: 04-19-2005, last post: 2005-08-18 11:19:04 CEST)
NO IT ISN'T!
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4:
We really do have Lotus suspension!!! (Archive: GFC - by Will, started: 07-20-2004, last post: 2005-01-19 11:48:15 CET)
According to this website: http://www.gglotus.org/ggpart/m100xref.htmThe Lotus Elan M100 shares brake pads with the Pontiac Fiero
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5:
here we go again - Lotus Suspension (Archive: GFC - by fierosound, started: 11-09-2002, last post: 2003-05-31 10:19:04 CEST)
http://www.calgaryfieros.com/BUY&SELL.htm 1988 Mera for sale with "Lotus suspension". I emailed him about this, telling him Fieros never had "Lotus Suspension", here's his reply:"Lotus designed the 88 suspension for the Fiero. It had over and understeer in the 84-87's. Lotus DID help design the...
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6:
Fact or miss Lotus Suspension (Archive: GFC - by 87fierosyder, started: 12-04-2002, last post: 2003-05-31 10:18:11 CEST)
I was under the impression that the lotus suspension is a myth. That they did not have anything to do with the 1988 suspension. However, ever now and again I hear people telling other wise. What is the opinion of the forum Fact or Myth.
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7:
'88 Suspension by Lotus (Archive: GFC - by rockcrawl, started: 09-04-2000, last post: 2001-04-18 09:16:24 CEST)
I recently read that the 88 Fiero suspension being designed by Lotus is just a fairytale. I remember a few years ago at a car show there was an emblem dealer with tons of old emblems. I remember looking at the fiero emblems and seeing one that said "Suspension by Lotus" displayed with the Fiero...
Score: 1000, Size: 35 bytes

8:
having a thought about the "Lotus suspension" rumor (Archive: GFC - by hklvette, started: 07-28-2009, last post: 2011-05-02 10:50:59 CEST)
Hi all,I got to thinking the other day that the "Lotus designed suspension" had to come from somewhere, so I did a little digging since I also surf a locost forum every now and then. What I came across is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapman_strut It's not a Lotus design per-se, its a...
Score: 1000, Size: 62 bytes

9:
Lotus Suspension or Myth (Archive: GFC - by Nissan 300ZX, started: 07-02-2002, last post: 2002-11-04 12:36:45 CET)
I have never really found out about this. do Fiero's actually have Lotus suspension or is it just a similar to the Lotus.
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10:
The 1988 "Lotus Suspension" Myth... (Archive: GFC - by FieroFanatic13, started: 03-22-2009, last post: 2010-04-21 09:25:52 CEST)
Just posting because I finally came across the article (assuming there aren't more erroneous articles that is) that specifically makes the "Lotus designed suspension" statement/claim regarding the 1988 suspension revisions/upgrades. I can't say where the author, a Jeff Koch, originally got the...
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There used to be a guy on the Cobalt SS forum; he had an '88GT and was certain it had the Lotus suspension. I mentioned that it was just an "urban legend", but he didn't want to hear it. He offered various "proof" that it was designed by Lotus, and they were almost comical and proved nothing (for example, he mentioned the square-shaped tool you need to retract the pistons in the rear calipers - which of course are needed by ALL Fieros and most other cars also that have rear discs.... And he insisted that since his Fiero had independent rear suspension, that also proved it was by Lotus...). Anyway this was the same guy who insisted GM made Fieros available from the dealer with a factory V8 option, and he even ridiculed the guy who tried to correct him on that ("c'mon, man, don't tell me you just looked that up on Wikipedia, because that proves nothing. I used to own a Fiero! I'm an expert...").

Sometimes you just have to give up; there will always be some bone headed expert who simply doesn't want to be confused with the facts. Oh no, wait. I'm sorry, how stupid of me.....both names, Fiero and Lotus have an "o" in them. That's proof that both cars were designed by the same guy. I read somewhere that his name was Guido. See another "o". See the "proof" is everywhere, you just have to know where to look and how to read the clues.

quote Originally posted by Australian: There is no lotus connection however there are several threads on this... If an ex employee of lotus designed anything he was employed by GM so then nothing lotus. If any part was lotus inspired it maybe the front suspension it isn't lotus designed but it may certainly have been influenced. The Macpherson strut was first designed for a fiat but Porsche don't make mention as Designed by Fiat either.

Did you even read the original post? It has nothing to do with the suspension. It's all about the body design, and about inspiration, not "designed by lotus."

But for what it's worth, the C3 Corvette had similar front nose angles to the Esprit and Fiero, and that was in 1968.

Actually the Finale Fiero Kit car sold by V8 Archie looks similar to a modern day Lotus. To set the record straight the 88 Fiero suspension was designed solely by GM. I have no idea how this "designed by Lotus" suspension rumor started but it is false. The syling on some older Lotus cars is similar to Fieros but GM and Lotus never collaborated on any designs, nor did they use each others parts.

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quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: The syling on some older Lotus cars is similar to Fieros but GM and Lotus never collaborated on any designs, nor did they use each others parts.

That's not entirely true, now is it. GM and Lotus did in fact, work together on the C4 Corvette ZR-1. Also, GM owned Lotus from 1986-1993. And the Ecotec is a result of work from Lotus. GM buying Lotus in 1986, and using the Lotus resources on the ZR-1 in 1988-89 is probably what led to the idea that the Fiero suspension came from Lotus, given the redesign came right after the purchase of Lotus.

quote Originally posted by Vernon8360: Sometimes you just have to give up; there will always be some bone headed expert who simply doesn't want to be confused with the facts. Oh no, wait. I'm sorry, how stupid of me.....both names, Fiero and Lotus have an "o" in them. That's proof that both cars were designed by the same guy. I read somewhere that his name was Guido. See another "o". See the "proof" is everywhere, you just have to know where to look and how to read the clues.

you didnt even mention that there are 2 O's in the word "proof"

quote Originally posted by rambozotheclown: you didn't even mention that there are 2 O's in the word "proof"

Now how can we ignore that kind of proof.

(An even six Os in my sentence, confirmation that it is all true.)

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Jim Martin
White '86 GT
Monterey, California

quote Originally posted by Vernon8360: Sometimes you just have to give up; there will always be some bone headed expert who simply doesn't want to be confused with the facts. Oh no, wait. I'm sorry, how stupid of me.....both names, Fiero and Lotus have an "o" in them. That's proof that both cars were designed by the same guy. I read somewhere that his name was Guido. See another "o". See the "proof" is everywhere, you just have to know where to look and how to read the clues.

They both have 5 letters and at least 2 syllables.

I've owned both a Lotus Europa and an Esprit and my last name has an "O" in it , and I have two 88 Fiero's, so therefore, Lotus must have designed the 88 suspension. Actually , I don't see a lot of similarities in the look of the Lotus and the look of the Fiero. The Lotus Esprit was designed by Guigaro and is much more angular than the Fiero. Being designed in the early 70's, there were many Guigaro designed cars with the same angular styling cues of that time. The Lotus, being somewhat lighter than the Fiero, was much quicker to respond to driver input than either the 84-87 or the 88 Fiero. When I first drove an 84 Fiero, thinking I just had to have one, I was turned off by the heavy steering and general heavy feeling of the car. So, I waited until 2005 to buy my first Fiero, have had six, and now tell people that the Fiero is the only mid engined car I can afford in retirement!!!

I always thought the Ferrari 308 was a larger inspiration

quote Originally posted by Sourmug: It's amazing how much like Fieros they are:

Looks more like an Mr2

I mean "conceptually"

quote Originally posted by dobey: Did you even read the original post? It has nothing to do with the suspension. It's all about the body design, and about inspiration, not "designed by lotus." But for what it's worth, the C3 Corvette had similar front nose angles to the Esprit and Fiero, and that was in 1968.

The Badge that everyone puts on their car says "Handling by lotus" Not "designed by lotus"

quote Originally posted by Australian: The Badge that everyone puts on their car says "Handling by lotus" Not "designed by lotus"

And the OP was talking about "inspiration" not "design" or "handling"; specifically about the body styling, and not the handling. The 84 was mentioned, and he only sarcastically referred to suspension design.

The Lotus is for sure sharing styling ques.

pic:
http://lotusespritaddiction.../espritturbose09.jpg

The Lotus was ahead of its time. It is the car if I were to pick any one car, that I'd think inspired the Fiero's looks.

I see a lot of Giugiaro inspirations in the design of the Fiero. Not to say that Giugiaro/ItalDesign had any direct involvement, but the *inspiration* is remarkably present, IMHO.

The nose of the fiero, as well as the C4 Corvette, look very much like the high belt-line Maserati Merak and Bora, without the Maserati grille shape, of course.

Giugiaro also designed the original Lotus Esprit.

And he also designed the DMC12 DeLorean, and the Porsche-underpinned Tapiro concept car.

The Pininfarina-designed Ferrari 308 is obviously another example of the genre, from the pen of a different designer.

I see a lot of hints at 70's folded-paper ItalDesign (Giorgetto Giugiaro's design company) cues in the Fiero's slightly smoothed and just a bit curved and radiused 80's take on european 70's styling.

I would argue that Fiero looks more like Merak and Esprit than 308, though. Fiero doesn't have 308's swaged window sill and cowl line, or even Merak's version, creating the fenders' coke-bottle curves. The Fiero is more straight line defined, like the body lines and front of Merak/Bora, with the straight-edge window graphic details like Esprit (concept pictured), and DMC12.

quote Originally posted by dobey: And the OP was talking about "inspiration" not "design" or "handling"; specifically about the body styling, and not the handling. The 84 was mentioned, and he only sarcastically referred to suspension design.

So it is mentioned in the thread and your still putting crap on me i suppose you just came here to pick a fight.

quote Originally posted by Australian: So it is mentioned in the thread and your still putting crap on me i suppose you just came here to pick a fight.

If I wanted to pick a fight, I would pick a fight. I didn't call you any names or insult your mother or anything. I was pointing out how the OP was talking about the design of the body, and its inspiration, and not about the classic claim of Lotus making the suspension for the 88s; which is the only thing you mentioned. The OP only alluded to that claim in an obviously sarcastic fashiion to poke fun at it, and was clearly interested in talking about the body design.

If someone correcting your post back toward keeping the thread on topic somehow offends you in a personal manner such that it is "picking a fight" then I don't know what to tell you. Relax and go have a capahrina on the beach or something.

For what it's worth, there was other GM stuff that had 'handling by Lotus', namely the Isuzu Bighorn/Trooper. I'm guessing at some stage some dork took the badges from a Bighorn and popped them on his Fiero, and the rest is a murky mythical history of people being led astray by false badging

I am relaxed just enough for my eyes to focus when i read suspension sarcastically or not.

the road and track issue, august 1986 compares the fiero to a 1974 ferrari dino 246 gts. the first thing i did is take the [handling by lotus] decal of my car. ah it just cracks me up.

This myth has gotten out of hand. At a past car show, the owner of a Lotus there came up and said my Fiero had Lotus designed suspension because it was an 88.

It's funny. All of those "Handling by Lotus" badges that some Fiero owners are sticking on their cars actually came on the mid-late '80s Isuzu Impulse. (aka Piazza)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isuzu_Piazza

From the article...
"The updated 'Handling by Lotus' car was available from 1987 and the handling, although keeping the live axle arrangement was transfomed by Lotus in the UK after significant development work, involving modified suspension layouts, larger brakes, specially produced dampers and Goodyear tyres. The 'Handling by Lotus' cars had updated interior and exterior equipment. The exterior having a redesigned rear, with a large 'hoop' spoiler, new rear lamps, new rear badging with 'Handling by Lotus' badges and removal of the rubber side bumper strakes for a cleaner, more modern look."

So there.

Well been reading this thread for a couple of days, I have a 1995 issue of High Performance Pontiac mag. that a friend lent me and in there is a article on the Fiero. It state and I quote, A 30 million, fully independent Lotus-designed suspension graced the 1988 Fiero chassis, which finally let the car live up to its performance promise. Shorter spindles, smaller scrub radius, reduction of king pin angle, longer A arm and a 28mm anti-roll bar replaced the Chevette pieces at the nose. A new subframe with different attaching points, a three- link design, lower springs rates and a 22mm anti-roll bar did away with haggard old X car pieces out back

quote Originally posted by IIKool: Well been reading this thread for a couple of days, I have a 1995 issue of High Performance Pontiac mag. that a friend lent me and in there is a article on the Fiero. It state and I quote, A 30 million, fully independent Lotus-designed suspension graced the 1988 Fiero chassis, which finally let the car live up to its performance promise. Shorter spindles, smaller scrub radius, reduction of king pin angle, longer A arm and a 28mm anti-roll bar replaced the Chevette pieces at the nose. A new subframe with different attaching points, a three- link design, lower springs rates and a 22mm anti-roll bar did away with haggard old X car pieces out back

Yes. People have been reprinting the wrong information for years.
Every "new" article copies from that one, or the article that information was copied from.

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[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 10-25-2011).]