Now that would be cool. It looks in pretty good condition too. BTW how are you doing Eric?
It's in better condition than when I drove it. Tony is getting it ready for sale, and hopes that a museum purchases it. As for me, I'm doing great. The move south was the best thing I ever did! I hear things are looking up for you too. Feel free to email me offline. You can reach me via the website - www.boomtastic.com
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07:54 PM
Mr.PBody Member
Posts: 3172 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Registered: Oct 2006
So I am confused, is this the real one or not? It says 1986 and uses the phrase "they were not on the original fiero". But the "actual" car was featured in the 1984 hotrod, so how was a 1986 in a 1984 magazine, or is 1986 a typo? It says passes federal emissions, I thought the whole reason hot vapor never caught on was the HUGE NOx emissions.?
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10:21 PM
Boomtastic Member
Posts: 2359 From: Athens, Alabama Registered: May 2000
So I am confused, is this the real one or not? It says 1986 and uses the phrase "they were not on the original fiero". But the "actual" car was featured in the 1984 hotrod, so how was a 1986 in a 1984 magazine, or is 1986 a typo? It says passes federal emissions, I thought the whole reason hot vapor never caught on was the HUGE NOx emissions.?
According to legend (which is common with Smokey), apparently GM didn't want to pay for his work, so he pulled the engine out and shipped the body back to Pontiac without an engine. The engine then sat in the corner of his shop for 20 years until Smokey's death. The replacement body is an '86 model. I think the only reason behind this was pure convenience, nothing more (as in "that's the only body he - the current owner - could get that was worth working with") ..
[This message has been edited by Boomtastic (edited 11-27-2007).]
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10:44 PM
Nov 28th, 2007
Old Lar Member
Posts: 13798 From: Palm Bay, Florida Registered: Nov 1999
Originally posted by heavyRfoot: i wounder what he could have done with our little 2.8l since he got 250 hp on the duke.
I'm not trying to start any kind of argument here but I thought I was told that the 250 hp # could never be verified. Has anyone ever seen a dyno sheet on this motor?
------------------ Ron
It's the Soldier, not the reporter Who has given us the freedom of the press. It's the Soldier, not the poet, Who has given us the freedom of speech. It's the Soldier, not the politicians That ensures our right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. It's the Soldier who salutes the flag, Who serves beneath the flag, And whose coffin is draped by the flag.
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12:12 PM
PFF
System Bot
Boomtastic Member
Posts: 2359 From: Athens, Alabama Registered: May 2000
I'm not trying to start any kind of argument here but I thought I was told that the 250 hp # could never be verified. Has anyone ever seen a dyno sheet on this motor?
I have not seen a dyno sheet myself, but it is well documented. I believe it - 250 shouldn't be a problem when GM was making 330 out of the Super Duty ..
I would like to see that in person or atleast someone dismantle it and apply it to newer engines...
Most definitely. The method Smokey used is documented, but what he never told is how he got it to not detonate. With it having the possibility of going into the hands of an inquisitive entrepreneur, maybe we can finally resolve this mystery?
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04:59 PM
Doug85GT Member
Posts: 9826 From: Sacramento CA USA Registered: May 2003
Most definitely. The method Smokey used is documented, but what he never told is how he got it to not detonate. With it having the possibility of going into the hands of an inquisitive entrepreneur, maybe we can finally resolve this mystery?
I have read through the patent and other articles on how his engine worked. I would love to know if there are any secrets inside the engine when it is tore down. My guess is there probably are no secrets in the engine. The engine competely vaporises fuel with all of the hot air that it takes in. There are no droplets at all when the engine gets warm. This leads to a near complete combustion. In a perfect combustion reaction, the only things left over are H2O, CO2 and Nitrogen. None of those can trigger detonation. It is incomplete burns that makes polution such as NO, CO and O3. Those gasses are combustable which is why they can be burned further in the catalytic converter. If you ever stood behind a car with no catalytic converter, you will get a pretty good idea of how much of those gasses go unburnt.
The main reason that I read that the engine was not adopted was because of how hot the engine ran. The only oil that could lubricate it for any length of time cost $98 a quart back in 88.
Just my $0.02
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05:34 PM
Mr.PBody Member
Posts: 3172 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Registered: Oct 2006
Well google US patent office. Search HOT VAPOR ENGINE, smokeys patent expired and you can read and download his whole explanation and diagrams. Or at least you could a year ago when I thought about trying to build one.
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05:38 PM
Doug85GT Member
Posts: 9826 From: Sacramento CA USA Registered: May 2003
"he said that there was no oil that would last for a satisfactory length of time in operation except for mil-spec jet engine oil, which he said was $98 a quart at the time. I haven't heard anything about this project since then. "
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05:46 PM
hyperv6 Member
Posts: 6136 From: Clinton, OH, USA Registered: Mar 2003
I have nothing to prove this or disprove it but I have the feeling this may be one of these things that work only under the most perfect conditions and not as a everyday driver.
I love Smokey and was always a fan. I still feel very honored to have spent some time with him and got to speak with him before he died.
But if this system worked so well and was able to be perfected I don't know of a car company that would have not been willing to buy this technology. If it worked as well as it should it could have saved the car companies billions on new technologies and today they would not be fighting the goverrment raising the fuel mileage requirement.
I get the feeling it's a good concept just not perfected.
Smokey had many great ideas that worked and many that just as many that did not. Edison was much the same as he did not always perfect all his ideas but as technology advances what is needed to perfect some of these ideas becomes available their original ideas may someday work as planned.
If your interested in Smokey and the engine concept his 3 book set auto biography details this, his life and other adventures written just as he spoke. He even defined his curse words in the back of the book. It is a great book.
Oh, the book really did not cover much on the Fiero but the same concept on a K car Chrysler was covered IF I recall. It has been a while since I read his books. I will have to get them out and reread them again!
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06:52 PM
Fieroseverywhere Member
Posts: 4242 From: Gresham, Oregon USA Registered: Mar 2006
that's 0-60 in 6 seconds flat! 2nd gear brought me past 80
My 220WHP does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds, so idk how "fast" they are claiming that to be. Going 80 in second gear is also a bit strange, thats 6700RPMs on an econo trans, 7500+ with a typical non econo muncie or 5speed.
To many exaggerated claims surround this car for much of it to be true, IMO.
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11:46 PM
PFF
System Bot
Mr.PBody Member
Posts: 3172 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Registered: Oct 2006
Originally posted by darkhorizon: To many exaggerated claims surround this car for much of it to be true, IMO.
There seem to be quite a few claims making reference to this car and his other exploits that can't be documented. Mr. Yunick was also known to seek out loop holes in the racing rule books (not that others don't do the same thing). I've even heard a story about Mr. Yunick taking the NASCAR aero template that each car must be fitted with prior to a race and replacing it with his own. I'm not suggesting Mr. Yunick isn't legendary, just that I'll have to see some documented proof his claims were realized, tested and proven to be what they were reported to be before I'll accept it.
------------------ Ron
It's the Soldier, not the reporter Who has given us the freedom of the press. It's the Soldier, not the poet, Who has given us the freedom of speech. It's the Soldier, not the politicians That ensures our right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. It's the Soldier who salutes the flag, Who serves beneath the flag, And whose coffin is draped by the flag.
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08:58 AM
Boomtastic Member
Posts: 2359 From: Athens, Alabama Registered: May 2000
To many exaggerated claims surround this car for much of it to be true, IMO.
There will always be non-believers. Both Ed Parks of The Fiero Factory and I drove the car (on different weekends, at different times). I was handed the keys and told to "take it for a ride". No one else went with me on the ride (Ed had a passenger), so I was able to get a good feel for the vehicle. I also wrote the Georgia Fiero Club article, so I feel I have a better idea of what the car is/does versus those that have never seen it. So I invite the naysayers to purchase the car, tear it down, do whatever they want to it and see for themselves what it is. Meanwhile I will work on getting better scans of the Hot Rod magazine article on my website (it's posted, but hard to read) for those that want to read what Hot Rod had to say about this car.
All of that aside, the car is making a final appearance at The Fiero Factory (in Toney, AL) once again for a quick photo shoot before going to auction. I hope to get some more pictures of it with better details. The ones that I took when it was on display were a bit dark, and access to the car was slightly limited. You also get in this "fog" when you see the car, and you forget what you want to shoot because there's so much to look at. The details about when it will be back in Alabama will be forthcoming.
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10:10 AM
Doug85GT Member
Posts: 9826 From: Sacramento CA USA Registered: May 2003
so... smokey got the duke to above 200hp? I'm thinking he must have at least updated the internals. Would be fun to know more about this engine
It is *rumored* that it has an SD crank in it, but a lot of the details died with Smokey. There were others that helped him in his garage, and I know that the owner has been in touch with them, but I have not heard the outcome. (I will ask when I talk with him again.)
I hadn't heard anything about what crankshaft was in the engine, but it does have different connecting rods and ceramic pistons, according to some documents. There's a lot of technology there that is way ahead of its time. I just hope that one of the auto manufacturers doesn't acquire it at the auction, and the car disappears from public access.
So, Yunick's experiment is now over twenty years old. Everyone enthusiastic about it talks about Smokey being a genius, or at least a brilliant experimenter. Great. Here is what surprises me. Why hasn't anyone else recreated this project with modern materials? Ceramics technology has advanced, hasn't it? Composites have come a long way, too. On this forum, there are some highly imaginative, talented, and innovative people. Why don't one or two of you prove this will work? There is enough information available about Yunick's concept to give you a starting point. The same tires might not be available, but I am sure there are some narrow tires available that can be inflated to 50-60 lbs. to reduce rolling resistance. So, some of you give this a shot. Then submit your prototype to an independent testing lab to prove it works. Opinions of your friends who own Fieros will not serve. If nothing else, you should be able to recover your investment and make a nice profit when one of the major car or oil companies buys the car to keep the advanced ideas of the market. We know they do that all the time, don't they?
What are you waiting for?
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07:52 AM
86_fiero_gt_92 Member
Posts: 452 From: toronto, ontario, canada Registered: Nov 2007
I have not seen a dyno sheet myself, but it is well documented. I believe it - 250 shouldn't be a problem when GM was making 330 out of the Super Duty ..
I just acquired a copy of the May 1984 Car & Driver with the full article regarding Yunick's adiabiatic (not sure on spelling) design that uses what he called a "homogenizer." The article definitely states that the power numbers could not be confirmed during their visit and test drive- they drove the Plymouth Horizon/ Doge Omni equipped with his system at the time of the article. They do mention that he had several others, including a 2.5L Fiero, but they don't specify the power on the Fiero as far as I noticed in my quick read last night. The jist of it is that the writers were quite suspicious of Smokey's horsepower claims, fuel mileage claims, etc. They even point out that the increase in mileage is only about 10 percent better with the Horizon than the stock version- though they admit it definitely DOES have much more power PLUS gets better mileage. They also harp on Smokey's claim that he uses a "homogenizer" which is OBVIOUSLY a TURBO CHARGER that is simply pumping heated air into the engine, purportedly atomizing fuel and improving combustion while combating detonation despite the higher intake charge temperature. They also specifically point out the the "big three" and others had investigated Smokey's design for feasability and actual results- in the end, it seems he had a novel, if mostly unuseable idea here.
I'd gladly put up some scans or send scans to anyone interested in reading the original article!
I believe this fiero was on Hot Rod TV, don't remeber which episode but I do remeber the fiero! I saw it about a year ago, but it could have been a re-run.
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10:35 AM
Curlrup Member
Posts: 2590 From: Havre De Grace, MD Registered: Apr 2007
SO who bought the car??? It's not there anymore. SOmeone who will drive it? OR Someone who will dismantle it or dyno it. Just curious, my friend is a composites engineer and his father was a mechanical engineer for Chrysler for 40 years both him and his dad said that motor should never ever work. Even if it did it wouldn't work for long. So, I'm more curious on who is right. I think it would be awesome to have it dynoed and say surprise Smokey was right, and here is the secret to keeping that motor in one piece with all of that heat.
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10:55 AM
Boomtastic Member
Posts: 2359 From: Athens, Alabama Registered: May 2000
I believe this fiero was on Hot Rod TV, don't remeber which episode but I do remeber the fiero! I saw it about a year ago, but it could have been a re-run.
I have the Hot Rod video of it on my website - www.boomtastic.com - under the "Multimedia" section. There's also a few other videos of the car there too. Poke around.
------------------
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08:11 PM
Boomtastic Member
Posts: 2359 From: Athens, Alabama Registered: May 2000
SO who bought the car??? It's not there anymore. SOmeone who will drive it? OR Someone who will dismantle it or dyno it. Just curious, my friend is a composites engineer and his father was a mechanical engineer for Chrysler for 40 years both him and his dad said that motor should never ever work. Even if it did it wouldn't work for long. So, I'm more curious on who is right. I think it would be awesome to have it dynoed and say surprise Smokey was right, and here is the secret to keeping that motor in one piece with all of that heat.
I spoke with the owner this past weekend about this. He said: "It technically sold for $55,000. Then after we signed the sale contract and got out of the camera view they told us it was not real money and the sale was void? The real bids slowed around $37,500. But you couldn't go back and find out who the real bidders were. So it is home now."
I asked him to explain how this could happen. He said: "When you read the small print on the bottom of the last page of the consignment agreement it says RS has the authority to make solicit or accept bids on behalf of the seller. Make being the key word....."
So apparently the prices you see cars going for at the big auctions like Barrett/Jackson aren't really what they are selling for. He confirmed this, and said that they saw cars go through the lanes, "sell", and then go back through the lanes again during a commercial break to re-sell. The sad part about this is that the person that bid $37,500 thought he was outbid by a BS bid, so they left. After you get done removing the fake bids, he/she really did win the car but they are already long gone, thinking that they lost. And apparently this happens a LOT. He said that he knows of a few people that have had to leave their cars at the auction for as long as a week after it has "sold" while everything gets sorted out, and even then they don't know if they have sold their car. So long story short is that it didn't sell, but that it is still for sale and will be either on eBay or in another auction possibly in March. I'll try to keep everyone posted as to what's going on with it as I hear things. Meanwhile if anyone wants to buy it, let me know and I will put you in touch with the owner.
Meanwhile I will work on getting better scans of the Hot Rod magazine article on my website (it's posted, but hard to read) for those that want to read what Hot Rod had to say about this car.
