ive been interested in drifting for a couple years now and I havnt been able to practise or anything yet. I was wondering how well a fiero would drift and if anybody had any experience with doing it?

I don't think that they drift very well. The rear end likes to stay planted and if you do get it loose, it can spin easily. A front-engine RWD car is typically best because its easy to get the rear wheels to lose traction and its easier to control. FWD cars usually use the handbrake to initiate traction loss in the rear.

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i think the fiero would be an okay drift car but it will take practice since the back end of the fiero is heavy due to the engine.

give it a try and let us know how it turns out..i would like to try it tooo maybe when i buy a new set of rims i will go out and try on my old tires.

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[This message has been edited by Puck (edited 01-12-2006).]

I think its a very bad, bad idea, this moring I had fishtailed and consquently spun out driving to school soley due to an ice patch while accelrating, the fieros rear bias not only increass traction, but most of the wieght being inboard on the wheelbase makes it like a top, once you spin you keep spinning. The fiero is much better suited for autocrosses than drifting.

ive tried it a couple times in an abandoned parking lot and I got the rear out and in without spinning out. But im not an experienced driver and ive never drifted before so when I do try it I have nothing to compare to. Plus I dont have much power its stock V6 and hard to get the butt loose

Where does the fiero excel performance wise?

shave your tires, and then soak your parking lot.... hahaha Thats one way to do it!

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Custom Fiero Fiberglass

i have 'touched' on drifting here in Toronto, and my Fiero has the power to do it, but i cant/dont get the chance to do the crazy **** u see on TV and those DVDs of course. mind u the only reason i can get to drift somewhat is because of hte power. (not that u need big power to do it , but it helps....especially torque). a proper stiff suspension setup helps too.
i also go check out events (and have played around with) the guys cars who run drift sites up here as well.

to be honest u sound like youre just getting into the sport (or performance cars/driving) for that matter.....so i would NOT suggest the Fiero to be used as your platform. there are many reasons, as the ones just listed above. it is midengine and they are the MOST trickiest to drift properly unless u have experience and good power.

u dont always have to use the ebrake to drift, as there are many "forms" of it....but in the time u do, well the fieros ebrake is not in a good spot. plus it has snap oversteer which will bite u in the ass often, as the centre of gravity is in the middle/rear of the car and thats not the best for drift. (tho having a 50/50 balanced car is nice for it, its almost easier to drift with having 70/30 front/rear balance with a front engine/rwd car to drift with.

also, its tough in reality (unless yer rich and have easy shop access) to have a drift car as yer "everyday car" cos yer drift car DOES need maintenance alot...its not like Initial D where u can expect it not to break everytime u run / drfit it. plus u need various sets of rear tires.

i would suggest the following if u are gettin into drifting:

any year mazda rx7
any year nissan 240sx
any rwd toyota corolla (no Supra's, to fat, not balanced)
any real "decent" rwd front engine car to be honest...even mustangs are IDEAL for drift, solild rear axles and all, or even a camaro.....tho having a rear diff or posi helps a lot too for control
even AWD cars can do it, this takes skillz tho
u wanna make sure u dont kill yerself with $$$

i suggest checking out www.drifting.com if u are serious, and watching the "drift bible" DVD by Best Motoring International....as the Jap master of drifting will explain/demonstrate all the various techniques of every type of car to drift with

[This message has been edited by 3.8T (edited 01-12-2006).]

I only say this becuase i dont want anyone getting hurt.

quote Originally posted by FieroWannaBe: I only say this becuase i dont want anyone getting hurt.

I think its a pretty safe sport if you are doing it in an open area

Im not thinking of doing this on a competitive basis, more of just a for-fun thing. So I dont want to buy a car specifically for it or put huge money into making a fiero a good drifter. Also is this "snap-oversteer" where the back end whips into place and almost throws the other way when you straighten back out? I noticed that when I was playing around but I thought it was just cause I sucked at drifting and I was letting off the throttle too quick

Driving muscle cars all the time with huge amounts of horsepower, detroit locker, and posi traction, I wouldn't really recommend drifting in them. If you like the car... On dry pavement, its pretty hard on the car if its going sideways. At a dead stop, and you nail it with street radials, 500+ horsepower, your ass end is going everywhere. However if you start taking corners really fast, and nailing it around them, I just hope you don't nail a post.. haha. Keep it in safe places, not on the streets... Too many amateurs that think they are "hawt" on the streets hitting everything in there way. I just hope no one is crossing the street. Just beware not to be one of "those" guys...

Yah, fiero's aren't good drifters. You need a front engine RWD vehicle, something very light, lot's of power, and good suspension. To top it off, it's very hard to set / release our parking brakes you know.

On the contrary, it makes for a very nice drift car. I got the rear end a little loose at my last autox and got about 30* of slip angle through the last corner, and by simply keeping the throttle depressed, the back tires started to spin freely and I slid through the corner. It was the most stable and controllable drift I've ever gotten myself into.

Drifting is a lot of fun, but I STRONGLY recommend that you do it at sanctioned events like autocross, driftday, etc. rather than at an empty lot. Alternatively, if your area gets snow, go to a snowy parking lot (hopefully far away from surface streets, where you won't bother anyone and the cops won't nail you) and start practicing by finding out what your Fiero will do by doing donuts in the lot and then try sliding around a little bit. If nothing else, it's a nice excercise in car control. You will not be able to drift like the guys on TV until you've got a few years of practice under your belt, preferrably combined with a fully set-up drift car.

However, in order for the Fiero to be a successful drift car it needs more than the standard 130hp, or you need some REALLY sh*tty rear tires. Since I can't exactly afford an engine swap right now, here was my game plan:

All tires to be mounted on 15" GT rims.
Fronts: Falken AZENIS or Toyo Proxes, FRESH with good tread. Whatever you put on the front, make sure it's STICKY to counteract the inherent understeer the Fiero has.

Rears: Put on a set of worn out tires from your local used tire store. What I personally would do is look up which brands have really crappy traction, use thinner tires, or use a set of 14" Tech wheels [super cheap and easy to find] with a set of thinner tires. (i.e. 185 series tires)
If your Fiero has the power for it, go ahead and put Falken Azenis on front and rear.

Additionally, you can use the ebrake, however, that's not an option for me since mine doesn't work.

If you have the funds, invest in the following:
Rear sway bar
Stiffer front sway
Coilovers or Lowering Springs
*****Phantom Grip LSD***** <=== KEY FOR DRIFTING
C4 Vette Brakes, or drilled/slotted fronts w/composite pads and then Grand Am brakes.

I would strongly recommend checking out drift association and drifting.com and find out if there are any events near you.
On the plus side, I'm glad to know I'm not the only person out there drifting a Fiero.
You might also want to watch the "Drift Bible". Famed Drift King Tsuchiya outlines drifting techniques for all common car configurations [fr, ff, mr] in the video.

Like the guy said above, pretty much any FR car will work (I've done it a few times in the snow with my 1986 Fordvan to make quick u-turns, haha) but an automatic will HARDCORE get in the way of drifting. Any Mustang will work, as will just about any Camaro or Firebird / T/A. 240SXs are easy to come by, but they're hard to find in good condition for cheap. They usually have been abused, unfortunately. RWD Corollas (84-87) are hard to find cheap now because drifting has gotten so big. The cheapest you can find a corolla online is usually in the $2000 dollar range, which is stupid, because five years ago you could find the same car for like $500. If you ever buy a corolla, avoid the SR5 model. Pretty much any RWD Nissan car will work, as will most RWD toyotas. Older Celicas (Pre 86) and Supras (Pre 88 when they went to the MK III) will work very well.

stay safe and have fun!

-Mulholland GT

edit: eightball, I noticed you're from Michigan. That means Detroit isn't too far away from you, and if I'm not mistaken there are a few drifting events there. Check it out and remember, keep it safe. late.

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1986 GT Getrag 5-speed

MULHOLLAND GT

[This message has been edited by Mulholland_GT_Racer (edited 01-13-2006).]

Well, Mulholland basically covered everything I was going to state, but I have some first-hand experience trying to drift mine:

The fiero, by nature, understeers under nearly all situations. 88's are slightly better because of their rear sway bar, and any 84-87 will benefit with the addition of one. Adding a sway bar isn't exactly a huge expense ($200), check out Held Motorsports

My car still understeers sometimes when i punch the throttle, and that's with nearly 300hp. The weight shifts to the rear, and the front tires lose traction needed to turn, though that is largely due to my bald tires and lack of a rear sway bar.

DISCLAIMER: DO NOT PRACTICE ON THE STREET! DRIFTING IS VERY DANGEROUS

The one way i did get my stock V6 to kick out predictably was by clutch-kicking. DO NOT DO THIS UNLESS YOU WANT TO RUIN THE CLUTCH! I only used this tactic because it was right before my V8 swap, and my tranny was trashed anyway. (broken case) If you don't mind the shock factor on your entire drivetrain, this is accomplished by simply kicking your clutch rapidly once at the exact point you want to begin the drift.

Since the fiero has a rearward weight bias and does lift-throttle oversteer, you can also come into the corner a little hot and simply brake hard while releasing the throttle quickly. When the rear kicks out, apply the gas smoothly to control the drift. This is very tough because of the tendency to "snap spin", meaning that since our car has such a high threshold of grip at the rear, it has a very fine line between sliding and spinning.

I also agree with mulholland that learning how your car performs while going sideways is to practice in snow. This allows you to practice drifting at a much slower speed, which is inherently safer.

All that being said, don't let people tell you you can't drift your fiero, it's just more difficult. Heck, the japanese said domestics couldn't be successful drifters, then Rhys Millen won last years Formula D Championship in his '05 Pontiac GTO! So have fun and be safe.

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Formerly "87 GT 3800 SC"
Now 1995 LT1/Getrag

My experience of Drifting, at least FWD drifting

Drifting is dangerous when done on a street, Last winter I came across a baseball park dirt road, obviously not used in the winter but it was still plowed. As it warmed up a little bit it became very packed down and *perfect* for drifting (winter drifting at least) We would run trails and it would be great safe fun (Road ran between 2 large flat areas of grass). As winter ended the gravel road became muddy and still slick. I wanted to keep drifting. Well I wrote a story about my one drifting crash, enough to scare the crap outta anyone.

Remember this is in my 98 5spd Cavalier Sedan

Friday, April 22, 2005 4:33 PM

Ok, as some of you might of seen, my old sign was of me drifting in my car...
Well here in MI its been raining all day, I just have gotten outta work and was on my way home. I drove by the place where we spend a day in the winter drifting in our cars. Seeing how it was wet and raining I thought id go do some more drifting to end the day. Now, Ive had experience pulling the handbrake during these conditions, but this was different. I was traveling bout 40ish down a turn in this old road, I pulled my handbrake and got the car sideways no big deal. But bout have way through it my Front drivers side tire popped off the rim.(At the time I had NO clue my tire popped of my rim, there was no hole in my tire, i just completely ripped the tire off the rim) I was drifting on a left turn, I realized something wasnt right and instinctly I released the handbrake, the car corrected to much and i went into the field to the right of the road complete sideways I sunk pretty well, I just said Ohh @!#$ and hoped I didnt flip. I came to a stop prox. 45 yards from the road. I put it back in 1st gear and took off towards the road, mud boggin style. I reach the road and then got outta my car to realize what happen. Now, changing a tire isnt fun, let alone a muddy road with a downpour. I put the dounut on and head to discount tyre were they put the tire back on for free since it was a tire I bought from them. Im was on my steelies if anyone wanted to know. This changed my mind big time drifting outside of the snowy realm Gimme some thoughts, yeah it was stupid but its fun, but im going to reconsider next time.

I'll try and find my vid of one of my drifts if anyones interested. Sorry it is so long!

Figures I find it now
Lets see if it works
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=DCP_0367

[This message has been edited by Fosgatecavy98 (edited 01-13-2006).]

you cant "drift" a FWD car. you can yang the e-brake, and lock up the rear & slide it, but thats NOT a drift. you can carry a drift all day - with the e-brake you end up dragging your ass around after the short, but enjoyable slide. you need power to drift. lots of it. RWD power. locked diff or strong LSD diff. Fiero is good to drift. but, its VERY easy for it to let go & snap around on ya. but, it also nice because you can get the very fine 4 wheel drifts. anyone can slide the ass. a geo metro can slide its ass. (see e-brake above )

yes, along with what i mentioned above, these guys here have brought up good points too.
of course u can 'drift' a fiero, but it will jsut be more of a handful than a usual front engine, rwd or awd car.
with lotsa power it makes things easier for sure, as it makes such a 'snappy' car more controllable.
if u took an underpowered rx7 u would have an easier time controlling it than an underpowered fiero.
in my case, ill use that liftthrottle ideal mentioned above....but since the car is quick and powerful, i can just go into a turn hot without much understeer, then start to yank "turn" hard into it while still on the gas....then the back end starts to come out. from here its just a matter of throttle modulation as to how much of an angle u want to take it at and for how long before u correct, while HOPEFULLY not brining the car around. if yer weight was frontbiased in a rwd car, it would be more forgiving.

From Wikipedia:

Drifting refers to the difference in slip angle between the front and rear tires of a car. When the rear wheels are slipping at a greater angle than the front wheels, the car is drifting, or oversteering. The rear end of the car appears to chase the front end around a turn, the driver utilizes both front tires and the rear tires to control the actual direction of the car. More throttle induces more rear wheel slip angle and the rear of the car wants to overtake the front. The goal is for the driver to achieve steering lock and use the throttle to fine tune the car's angle and direction.

Any rear-wheel-drive car can be drifted (with those having a limited-slip differential preferred), and some all-wheel-drive cars can also drift, often with less angle, but higher speed. Popular competition cars in the US include the Nissan 240SX (the U.S. and Canada version of the Japanese Nissan Silvia/180SX), Nissan 350Z, Toyota Corolla GT-S, Mazda RX-7 and Honda S2000. Recently domestic favorites have also been thrown into the mix, such as the Ford Mustang, Pontiac GTO and Dodge Viper. In Japan, the top drift machines are the S13, S14, and S15 generations of the Nissan Silvia/180SX, Toyota AE86 Sprinter Trueno and Corolla Levin, Nissan Skyline (RWD versions, the ER34 4-door sedan and the previous generation of HCR32), Mazda RX-7 FC and FD, Toyota Altezza, Toyota Aristo, Nissan Z33, Fairlady Z(350Z), Nissan Cefiro, Nissan Laurel, Toyota Soarer, and the aforementioned vehicles.

There is some debate over whether or not front-wheel-drive (FWD) vehicles can drift. By the technical definition (rear wheels slipping at a greater angle than front wheels), they are indeed able to drift. However, many consider FWD vehicles a poor choice for drifting, as the frequent use of the emergency brake (necessary to drift FWD cars) slows them down and makes them harder to control. Also since they use their front tires for both steering and power, the car loses control after a single slide, while RWD cars can drift through consecutive corners. In this way, the definition of drifting is frequently challenged to say that FWD cars cannot drift, only powerslide. However, some drifters such as Kyle Arai or Keisuke Haketeyama use EF Civics to drift, and succeed in doing so, sometimes besting out their RWD opponents.

AWD vehicles, such as the Subaru Impreza WRX STi, and Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution drift at a much different angle and are usually induced by power-over. As the front wheels are also driven on an AWD vehicle there is a noticeable lack of counter steer. D1 and other professional competitions do not allow AWD vehicles. However vehicles like the Impreza and the Lancer are being converted to only use the rear wheels so as to become a RWD car that can compete in drift competitions that prohibit AWD cars.

Drifting Techniques:

There are many different ways to drift a car, including: (NOTE: ABS and TCS should be turned off before attempting to drift. These systems are not made to take into account a driver wanting the car to slide.)

* Braking drift - This drift is performed by trail braking into a corner so that the car can "set" or shift weight to cause the rear wheels to lose traction, then controlling the drift with proper steering and gas inputs. Having brake bias can be beneficial to the drift depending on the driving style. Usually having bias on rear brakes helps to brake drift.

* Power Over Drift - This drift performed when entering a corner at full throttle to produce heavy oversteer through the turn. It is the most typical drifting technique for AWD cars (predominately RWD). Keiichi Tsuchiya has been regarded as saying he used this technique when he was too scared to drift at certain corners when he was younger. However the chance of this technique leading to a burn-out instead of a drift is possible if executed at a bad angle.

* Inertia (Feint) Drift - This is done by rocking the car towards the outside of a turn and then using the inertia of the car to swing it back to the desired drifting line. By going away from the corner, and turning back in hard, you are coming from a much sharper angle. Somtimes the brake will be applied while rocking the car towards the outside to give a better weight transfer; hence creating an even sharper turn. It has been said by many pro-drifters that this is one of the hardest techniques to master as has a high spin-out factor.

* Handbrake/ebrake Drift - This technique is pretty straightforward; pull the handbrake to induce rear traction loss and balance drift through steering and throttle play. Some people debate the fact that if using the handbrake creates an actual drift, or just a power slide, but ultimately, using the e-brake is no different than any other technique for starting drifts. This is generally the main technique to perform a controlled drift in a FWD vehicle. This is one the first techniques beginners will use as their cars are not powerful enough to lose traction using other techniques. Also this technique is used heavily in drift competitions to drift big corners.

* Dirt Drop Drift - This is done by dropping the rear tires off the road into the dirt to maintain or gain drift angle without losing power or speed and to set up for the next turn. Only permissible on roads without barriers and lined with dirt or other materials which to lose traction. This is commonly done in WRC rallying.

* Clutch Kick - This is done by "kicking" the clutch (pushing in, then out, usually more than one time in a drift for adjustment in a very fast manner) to send a shock through the powertrain, upsetting the car's balance. It causes the rear wheels to slip and enables the driver to induce oversteer.

* Choku Dori - This is used while drifting on straightaways. The driver of the car sways the car side to side while the car is in a drift, which looks impressive. It can be initiated through all the above techniques.

* Changing Side Swing - This technique is used extensively in the Japanese D1 competition and is very similar to inertia (Feint) drift. It is often done on the first entry drift corner, which is often a long double apex turn just before a very fast straight-way. If the straight-way before that double apex is of a downhill orientation, the driver keeps driving on side of the track that is closetest to the corner. Then with correct timing in mind, the driver abruptly changes the car onto the other side. This movement has the car momentum to be altered causing the rear wheels to lose traction. The car is in a drift motion right now. Then the drift is carried over into the corner and through it.

* Dynamic Drift - This technique is similar to the Choku Dori. It employs all forms of the above techniques - and not restricted to only one - in combinations to accomplish the desired drift movement.

Automobile Configuration:

The suspension in a drift car is very tight and unforgiving -- even the chassis is tightened with roll cages and strut braces. Die-hard drifting enthusiasts also alter the suspension geometry to enable the car to slide better. As with everything, modification of the body and suspension components is a trade-off. Hard suspension in the front and a soft suspension in the back is easiest for first timers, but a handicap at higher levels. Most cars use an integrated coilover/shock (MacPherson strut) combination called shakocho. This allows for the height of the car to be adjusted. Better shakocho will be what the Japanese call "full-tap". This means the bottom of the strut is also a coil over, so you can change the height of the car from the bottom, and the height of the spring with the top. Usually a driver wants to have full stroke on his shocks, so he will raise the spring to its highest point. There is no perfect height setting or spring/shock combo for any car, but there are perfect setups for particular drivers. Many suspension manufacturers, such as Kei Office, APEX'i, Tein, JIC Magic, and HKS, offer suspension tuned specifically for drifting, allowing many people to enter the sport competitively.

One common trend that used to be popular in Japan was "Oni-can." In English, it means Demon Camber. It involves setting the suspension with obscene amounts of negative camber. The car will be very easy to slide and lose grip, but stability, grip, and overall ability to control the car will be compromised. As such, this setting is very dangerous, and is not recommended.

The differentials are limited-slip differentials (LSD), which are divided into clutch-type differentials and viscous Limited-Slip Differentials (VLSD), not the standard open differential. On an open differential, the automatic transfer of power to the spinning wheel causes the car to the inside wheel spinning out of control, and the other spinning at the actual speed of the car. A LSD allows the two wheels connected to the LSD to spin in a certain speed range, to give power to both wheels through a turn, allowing a car in a drift to use both wheels for power in a drift. LSD's are separated in three categories, 1 Way, 1.5 Way, and 2 way. A 1-way LSD means it only locks the differential under acceleration, while a 2-way LSD locks them under acceleration and deceleration. A 1.5 way LSD allows locking under both acceleration and deceleration, but it is weaker than a 2-way under deceleration. It is common to use a 2-way LSD for drift cars however 1-way and 1.5-way LSD can be used.

A cheaper alternative to a LSD is to weld a differential. This allows for no difference of speed between the left and right wheels the differential is attached to, and may hop and screech during low speed parking maneuvers. Welded differentials may have a low longevity due to poor welding, however a decently welded differential should be fairly reliable. The welded differential aids in drifting because it allows both of the wheels to spin in a corner, instead of just the inside wheel. Many people claim they like welded differentials better than LSDs, however it is up to personal preference. Most professional drifters use LSDs.

The cars quite often have different tires on the front and back, and the owner may have quite a few sets. This is because a single afternoon of drifting can destroy a new set of tires. As a rule, good tires go on the front for good steering. On the back, hard-compound tires are used -- quite often second-hand ones -- as they tend to end up in a cloud of smoke. As a driver gets better, she will most likely want to upgrade the tires used in the rear for a higher grip compound. Although cheap/hard tires are fun purely for their slipperiness and ease of drifting, they quickly become a hindrance for high-speed drifts.

In addition, for the typical "drift car look," the tires are stretched over a wide rim. This is known as a "hipari" tire. For example, 205 50/16 tyres may be fitted to an 8" rim, or 215 45/17 to a 9" rim; this allows for a bigger, wider, "cooler looking" wheel to be used. The driver is essentially still racing on a tire meant for a 7.5" or 8" wheel, but has the "cool wide look." The only real performance benefit of stretching tires on the wheel, is that it lowers the overall height of the sidewall and can add a feeling of firmness to turning and decrease body roll associated to a weak sidewall. *edit* actually tyre stretch is used to stop sidewall flex specially in high speed drift on change of direction. giving a much smoother transition and less weight transfer

The clutches on these cars tend to be very tough ceramic brass button or multiple-plate varieties. This is because a lot of drifters use the clutch to commence the wheel spins (and hence the drift) by popping the clutch at high engine RPMs. At the D1 level, most of the drifters who do not drive lightweight Hachi Rokus do not use "Clutch Kick" to initiate a drift. Most of the higher powered/better sponsored cars use the E-brake to initiate the drift. Some cars, like the HKS S15, only need to utilize their suspension geometry to start a drift.

Engine power does not need to be high, and in fact if you have too much power e.g. more than 500 hp (400 kW), the car can be very hard to handle/drift. Some drivers have 600 hp (450 kW) cars, and essentially perform long burnouts. Don't be fooled, drifting still retains the elements of speed and angle. Intercooler efficiency is reduced because of the angle of the car which reduces the air that passes through them. Rear spoilers usually are useful only in small tight tracks.

yes you can drift a fiero.... it just takes more skill and you wont be able to get as extreme of a slip angle but yes you can do it... there are videos out there of nearly stock MR2 turbos drifting and they have 37/63 F/R weight distro.... so it just takes practice.... ive had mine sideways around turns and its HARD but can be done..

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: you cant "drift" a FWD car......... )

I can... on dry roads... 4:10 gear ratio, 1st / 2nd gear torque, I can drift my escort... no ebrake turns... The front tires grip hard on pavement, enough to swing the rear... It all depends on how "comfortable" you are with your car. Obviously what I did was at a local show, legally, and off roads, with all safety equipment, and a medical team nearby.

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Custom Fiero Fiberglass