I just wanted to let everyone know what has been going since not everyone visist the Mall.
I purchase the taillights FieroX (Ryan) was selling on Ebay. I email FieroX prior to bidding on them and asked if they had delamination, his reply was "there is some but it will take you a few minutes to find it" (which to me means very small and minor ). The way they were described on Ebay was "one nocth below NOS".
When I got them I immidiatetly saw a 9 INCH delamination buble on one and some separation on the other one, I email FieroX wanting to resolve this only to not be able to come an agreement.
FieroX and Rare88 (Amir) were trying to convince me that I should be happy w/ what I got. From what they said the lights belong to both of them.
When trying to resolve this with FieroX on the phone, he continue to use profanity even when I politely asked him not to. I used to look up to him because of his achivements with X, I was even considering having him help me w/ a swap but after dealing w/ him, I will never do business with him again. He lye to me about the product I purchase from him.
Below is a reply to an email from Rare88 (Amir), the rest of what has been going on is on the "Mall" under the same heading:
"GT Taillights on Ebay, Super nice !!!"
To say the least this has made me very upset and I just wanted to alert everyone.

" Now the delam, well Ryan could fix your problem by masking off the lights and painting the upper region with some niteshade" (Amir)
I did not bid on lights that were painted, again as I stated before, I paid premium for a set of ligths where "it would take me a few minutes to find delamination" (as stated by Bryan, aka FieroX ), NOT painted or cracked ones.
"Let me know what's going on " (Amir)
What is going on is, I got a product significantly different than described, I try working in out with the seller only to find out I was dealing w/ someone who told me "you should have been more skeptical" ( meaning I should not have trusted him ), I told him what I would do next and I do keep my word.
Lincoln

Hey... If you wanted perfect tail-lights you missed your boat when GM stopped making them. You are overreating about this I'm thinking. Just talk with Ryan and Amir about it. Flaming them all over the forum is just making you look like you are scamming them. I saw these tail-lights with my own eyes and they looked great. You asked if they had delamination and got an anwer and bought them. You saw pictures as well... And yet you still bought them just to complain? just stop whining about it.
-Ryan

Not angry, and not upset with any of your comments they are all true except for you knew there would be delamination man so why even bid on something if you want them perfect. Not to ruin your boat here, but when someone says there is a flaw you should at least go into detail and ask how big where at this and that. What if the delam was small but in a place where you had delam on your initial tailights? How would that work with you? What I am getting at here, is you expected the tailight to have what a 1/2" part of delam? The only logical statement I can produce from what you say each time you say you got something totally different is that you got something that you weren't happy with yourself.

Did you know there was delam? Why yes, you asked Ryan if there was any. He stated yes. So why go out and buy something and know there is a flaw if you are looking for perfect Tailights without any delam or so little it takes you several minutes to find it? I can find delam on a tailight in seconds on a notchback. Turn the lights on and see if you can see through the lenses up top. On Fastbacks you can just look at the upper region and glancing takes 2 seconds. You keep running around the fact that you yourself bid on a light with delam. Those tailights were nice in my opinion, but I guess Im not the judge. Did you look at them besides the delam? The reason I asked if you wanted them painted is because I was reading along the thread with Racingman24. He is doing something along the lines of painting or making the delam go away. They would look original and just have no delam up top. It would look stock. We could have done it or had someone do it so they were up to your standards. I just felt that you were looking at tailights in every way possible to find a flaw so you could tell us how we lied and did this.

Please just understand Ryan DID NOT LIE. He told you fair and square there is delamination. If you were wondering about it, you should have pm'd back and said how big is the delam. Yeah we failed to state it in the auction on that one light, but if someone was seriously interested he would have emailed us or pm'd us on the forum asking for more information just like anything else. I have no problems with you but you insist that we just basically sold you bunk tailights that you aren't happy with at all. Sorry for whatever trouble we caused you but you have to admit you clicked the button that said bid now did you not?

------------------

Maroon 1987 GT 5 spd: 2.8L
Ferrari Red 1988 Formula 5 spd: 3800 Series II Supercharged In & Running.....

My Website: http://www.members.cox.net/rare88/
CarDomain Website: http://www.cardomain.com/id/rare87gt

[This message has been edited by Rare87GT (edited 03-10-2004).]

X

[This message has been edited by fieroX (edited 03-12-2004).]

Well, if I paid $300 (300 dollars was the cost?)for tail lights with a 9" delamination, I'd be torqued too. One notch below NOS is, to me, just some slight haze from being washed over the years. Can you post a pic of the light in question?

X

[This message has been edited by fieroX (edited 03-12-2004).]

I really dont think that he is trying to make you guys look bad, it just may seem that he may have a higher standard for the parts. We all know that those tail lights are damn near impossible to find and at a decent price even. I think that you guys outa take a deep breath and discuss this over the phone, I am sure that you guys can come to an understanding. Shoot, we are all Adults here. I am not taking any sides here, just trying to keep the peace!

------------------
86 Fiero SE
email: fierodustin@yahoo.com
PROJECT: 86 GT with a 3800SC Series I

Refund his money (minus 10% restocking fee), then relist them on e-bay. There were alot of other people interested in them for good money too. Just an idea!

quote Originally posted by SCCA FIERO: Can you post a pic of the light in question?

Ya, can you get some decent pics showing the delamination and seperation? Those pics on ebay aren't much to show any detail.

One party says a 9 inch delamination on one, and seperation on the other.

Another other party says yes theres some delamination, but it will take a couple of minutes to find it and these lights are beautiful.

A third party says they look great - with 9 inchs of delamination?

A fourth party says they failed to mention delamination on one light, accident, or coincidence?

The auctions both state that these are 1 notch short of NOS originals. If they have any delamination or seperation at all at one notch short, what's 2 notchs short? cracked lenses?

There's too many conflicting points here, lets see the pics and see whos $hittin who.

X

[This message has been edited by fieroX (edited 03-12-2004).]

This is ridiculous, i agree with ryan nelson on this. You saw pictures and you bought them, you also seen angle shots of them. Chances are your not going to find a pair in 110% condition, also Amir is a good guy he even offered you the ones off his GT, but theres no settling this is there. Once again i did see the tails in Amirs garage they were very nice, and cleaned to one hell of a polish.

-Josh

OK - I have been following this in the Mall (and no... I don't think it's necessary to carry it over here - Cliff has stated before that one thread on each topic is sufficient). But my one question... Why heck haven't you (85LAMB) just simply sent back the taillights - and FieroX why haven't you just refunded his money? Transaction cancelled! I would also stipulate that 85LAMB only gets back the money that FieroX actually recieved (auction totals less shipping costs), which is standard for most business transactions.

Otherwise, what other resolution would you suggest 85LAMB? That they just magically give you your money back and you get to keep a reasonably-nice set of lenses? I don't think so...

------------------

Looking for Fiero posters?

X

[This message has been edited by fieroX (edited 03-12-2004).]

The lights do look good in the photo, but they are dark and hard to see detail. The pics could have been better. I was actualy thinking of buying those, all the way down to the last minute of that auction, but decided I like 355 style better.

Now if I had bid on what I thought where one notch below NOS and got 9" of delamination, I too, would be upset.

I think everyone would like to see a better pic from 85 lamb. That will show if these where misadvertised. It doesnt take a few minutes to find 9" of delam. LETS SEE 'EM.

------------------
-Chris
86 GT
***95 Camaro 3.4 swap, Ported and polished heads and intakes, CRX CAI, Custom Cam, steel vacuum lines, steel braided EGR tube, new Wire Harness, New Exhaust, No Cat, Flowmaster, polished poly dog bone. Isuzu 5 speed, Short through shifter
***Intrax 2" drop springs, Full Polly Suspension, Sencetrack Struts and Shocks, Grand AM brake upgrade, steel braided brake lines, 17" Gun Metal Wheels, Khumo Tires
***Racing Seats, SunPro tach w/ shift light, carbon fiber Steering wheel, Carbon Fiber dash accents and custom sphere shift knob

[This message has been edited by Black-Azz-GT (edited 03-10-2004).]

I don't think "NOS" should be mentioned at all on an item that had delam on it, even "one notch below NOS".

But I don't think anyone can point a finger until better pics are produced.

just because youdont have a job doesn't make it okay to rip someone off. If theyr'e advertised as almost NOS quality, and they aren't, then you should reimburse the money. I can understand not having the money right away, but thats not 85lamb's fault.

I doubt anyone on this board is willing to pay $300++ for some taillights with Delam on them.

Lets see those pics.

------------------
SSFiero@Aol.com Support Mental Health, or I'll Kill Ya!!
Yellow Formula Signature

• 88 Yellow FORMULA
  
• ZZ3 with StreetRam TPI=1000CFM, 345hp, 390lb-ft. Est to be done by 5/1/04
  
• My Shower Cam

My comments are over. I base my perfection with what I do. Look at my car and then you will understand why I am the way I am. If I was happy with them everyone else should be too. This is from experience. I was planning on maybe even keeping them. 1 notch short of NOS is what these are. Despite the delam they are perfect, perfection nothing else wrong with them. What is one notch short of NOS all scratched up and not buffed or anything? I dont get it sometimes.

[This message has been edited by Rare87GT (edited 03-10-2004).]

I was goint to post picture before but I had not been able to figure out how... I hope it works
BTW I paid 325.00
1st pic you can see where the bubble starts
2nd pic you can see where the bubble ends
3rd pic is the right light and you can see some separation under the A
4th pic you can see the separation almost touching the middle of the C and at the end of the C

I am sorry about the picture not coming up, but when I right click on them and hit (show pictures) I can see them, if that does not work I will see if can do something about it tonight.

[This message has been edited by 85LAMB (edited 03-10-2004).]

quote Originally posted by 85LAMB: I was goint to post picture before but I had not been able to figure out how... I hope it works 1st pic you can see where the bubble starts 2nd pic you can see where the bubble ends 3rd pic is the right light and you can see some separation under the A 4th pic you can see the separation almost touching the middle of the C and at the end of the C

Pics dont work.

Rare87 - No offence because, I like you even though I dont know you and your cars are beutiful.

BUT, I would think one notch below NOS would be tipical age with no cracks or delam.

I'm only commenting because I almost bought these and it seemed the perfect place to check my sig.

------------------
-Chris

86 GT
***95 Camaro 3.4 swap, Ported and polished heads and intakes, CRX CAI, Custom Cam, steel vacuum lines, steel braided EGR tube, new Wire Harness, New Exhaust, No Cat, Flowmaster, polished poly dog bone. Isuzu 5 speed, Short through shifter
***Intrax 2" drop springs, Full Polly Suspension, Sencetrack Struts and Shocks, Grand AM brake upgrade, steel braided brake lines, 17" Gun Metal Wheels, Khumo Tires
***Racing Seats, SunPro tach w/ shift light, carbon fiber Steering wheel, Carbon Fiber dash accents and custom sphere shift knob

[This message has been edited by Black-Azz-GT (edited 03-10-2004).]

To me that tail looks pretty crappy. During the day in sunlight those large bubbles from delaminating must look terrible. That is far from NOS or a step below.. Falsely represented if you ask me.. However, delamination was mentioned prior to his buying them.. But still the description is far off. $325 for those is a joke. I just threw out my original lense that was in better shape then that because of a 3" bubble.

[This message has been edited by PowerLocked (edited 03-10-2004).]

I don't know what "NOS" is other than nitrous... I don't know any of the arguing parties other than from this forum... I do know the lights were advertised with slight defects, but the buyer is complaining about defects that are larger than advertised... but you know, if I had that $3XX.00, I would buy those off of you and put them on my own car because that set is far nicer than mine.

I'm not saying who is right or wrong here because without actually seeing better pictures of the delamination and knowing the ENTIRE story from both sides, I can't say, and I won't. But I would buy those lenses... if I had the cash.

NOS = New Old Stock

Part that is still brand new, but is several years old. Never used, just stored, but still old.

Just give it up Lincoln. We are bad people that's it. Everyone's definition of perfect and good condition are different. Just leave it as is. Paypal is deciding it not the Fiero forum. You have the tailights over a sink? That's not the greatest place to take pictures and not the best place to have the tailights sitting. You could at least have took better pictures.

[This message has been edited by Rare87GT (edited 03-10-2004).]

Thanks for posting Lincoln. It's nice to see the true colors these folks display. I will not be doing business with either of them.. It's not the fact that they may or may not have misrepresented the items.. the attitudes displayed here are far from business like. When you have a deal you should do it professionally.

Personally I don't think that's the type of business this forum needs.. the (you got what you paid for too bad you should have asked before) attitude is something I thought wasn't on PFF because of the tight relations this group seems to have. Obviously the man isn't happy, if you don't want to hear his opinion and feelings then make it right.. If you don't want to then let him speak. I for one am glad he did, I almost bought those taillights myself.

quote Originally posted by Rare87GT: My comments are over. I base my perfection with what I do. Look at my car and then you will understand why I am the way I am. If I was happy with them everyone else should be too. This is from experience. I was planning on maybe even keeping them. 1 notch short of NOS is what these are. Despite the delam they are perfect, perfection nothing else wrong with them. What is one notch short of NOS all scratched up and not buffed or anything? I dont get it sometimes.

Amir I have lost all respect for you buy the attitude you have taken over this issue !!!!!!!!!!!,who are you to say if you are happy with every one else should .....not so you guys have conspired to screw this guy over and if you have any heart give him back his Freaking money.All well it was an auction and you guys made a killing but you all bent the guy over and screwed him without a condom and vaseline and giving him an attitude,you should be ashamed of your part in this it is like showing me a circle and making me believe it is as a square........shame ,shame on you.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/018435-2.html

[This message has been edited by Master Tuner Akimoto (edited 03-10-2004).]

What am I looking at here? What is delam? Those light look good to me.....But then I havnt seen a NOS set of 88 lights before. soooooooooo... Just wondering is all.

------------------
ICQ# 140841625
www.FieroLoki.com

Amir:

You may be correct that the forum is not deciding the fate of this particular sale. But, what you two seem to fail to realize is that the forum IS deciding the fate of your future sales. You should have returned his money if he wasn't happy and allowed him to return the lenses. Poor choice to allow this to come out this way. I have to agree with the others is saying that I wouldn't purchase anything from you either. Very poor form.

Sour

dude, i paid only $200 for a set that doesnt have much more delam than those, and mine were even mis-represented.

9 out of 10 would be like show car lenses that just need a little cleaning up. What if someone like Skitime bought these lense to put on his GT? think he would put on delaminated lenses that were suppose to be perfect except for maybe a very small spot you have to really look for? no.

you definition of good may differ from his definition of good, but perfect always means perfect. there is no "pefect but with delamination" because they would not be perfect now, would they?

------------------

+ a silver 85 2M4 *RIP gold 87 2M4*
--Adam--
IM AOL: FieroGT5speed

X

[This message has been edited by fieroX (edited 03-12-2004).]

i wish people would quit bitchin about "i got screwed on ebay because..." no matter what you should always ask for more detailed photgraphs of the product before you bid to make sure that this doesnt happen. if you dont then, o well your SOL.

------------------
'86 Fiero GT

www.KylesFiero.tk
www.XoticRydz.tk

I am sorry the picture are not that great but, it's hard to get a decent picture because of the glare.

MinnGreenGT
"what other resolution would you suggest 85LAMB? That they just magically give you your money back and you get to keep a reasonably-nice set of lenses? I don't think so..."
No, if I get my money back I will send the items back

fieroX
"I think thats what he is shooting for. Ill let paypal sort it out, and when they favor me, the deal is over. You are now the new owner of some nice ass lenses. Congratulations and welcome to ebay"
Wrong, as I stated above I would return the items back

Black-Azz-GT
"The lights do look good in the photo, but they are dark and hard to see detail"
You are right, the picture from ebay did not show the details and on the left light they did not show where the buble is at all.

PowerLocked
" During the day in sunlight those large bubbles from delaminating must look terrible. That is far from NOS or a step below.. Falsely represented if you ask me"
You are 100% correct, they look really bad in the sunlight, anyone that knows about GT lamps could imagine it.

Rare87GT
"You have the tailights over a sink? That's not the greatest place to take pictures and not the best place to have the tailights sitting. You could at least have took better pictures."
I took the pictures over the sink because when I took the pictures that is where the light was the best. I don't keep them on top of the sink, that is the sink I use everyday.

Master Tuner Akimoto
Thank you for your comment, the way you describe it is how I feel....what you stated about Amir saying is round when it's a square, I am glad you where able to see that, I was begginning to think I was the only one who saw it that way.

Thank you to all that have replied, This deal made me really upset but I did not post this to try to star a flame war, or to get a green bar (as FieroX stated), I posted to make everyone aware of what happen and because it might help some of you.

quote Originally posted by fieroX: From here on out i will add a disclaimer in my auctions that say "Item sold as-is, sorry no returns" and that should end this type of mayhem. Look at my feedback 101 positives, no negatives. Look at Lincolns 1 feedback, and its FROM ME!!!. Wish I wouldnt of left it so soon. Peace.

Your credibility is now shot as a seller,because who would want to trust your description of items you intend to sell you leaving a positive is you saying "yes I got a fool".If it was one of the upstanding member in the community that you sold this to you could not BS them with your 9 out of 10 rating ,Give the guy his money back and stop being arrogant he did nothing wrong except for trusting your flawed description.
Be a man why sell your reputation on the forum for a few $$ would you like to be referred to as a scam artist :
Amir & FieroX .............. do the right thing and refund the money

quote Originally posted by Master Tuner Akimoto: Your credibility is now shot as a seller,because who would want to trust your description of items you intend to sell you leaving a positive is you saying "yes I got a fool".If it was one of the upstanding member in the community that you sold this to you could not BS them with your 9 out of 10 rating ,Give the guy his money back and stop being arrogant he did nothing wrong except for trusting your flawed description. Be a man why sell your reputation on the forum for a few $$ would you like to be referred to as a scam artist : Amir & FieroX .............. do the right thing and refund the money

I am not arguing with anyone over this. Our credibility is shot because of one deal? Man that's real nice of you guys. I guess we are just lying people. I am again not out to have problems, its just that this deal went hay wire. Its not like we were asking $300 for the lights, there was no reserve. Well see what happens with paypal and go from there, how bout that. Sorry for being a douchebag i guess.

ps: i dont have to post on here anymore or sell things, maybe Ill just leave.

-Amir

Why not give them a chance to GET the money to refund? X has said he doesnt have it RIGHT now. I agree this could have been handled better in many ways, but damn people. Let him GET the money to refund, if he does intend to refund.

[This message has been edited by Loki (edited 03-10-2004).]

I also was looking at those tails on eBay. I'm sooo glad I didn't bid, as I need a good set of tails for my GT. I have basically identical tails with some delamination.. and I would never dream of describing them like that.. Do the right thing and settle this, it's not right to stick him with bad tails and a big dent in his pocket.. Regardless of whether it's within your legal rights as an auction seller.. this is a community of fair Fiero owners lets not tarnish it. Both you and Amir have two of most popular Fieros on the board.. I can't say as I'm a huge fan or follow your builds, but just for the fact of the extensive modifications I do have respect for you both.. And I must say this is a bit of a shock considering your long successful Fiero history.

X

[This message has been edited by fieroX (edited 03-12-2004).]

quote Originally posted by fieroX: Lincoln, why dont you take the taillights to Daytona and show some of the fellow fiero enthusiasts there, let them decide if they are worth the money. I guarantee you most will think they are awesome. People on here are starting to get the impression I sold a destroyed set of taillights as new. Why dont you post up pics of the entire light, not just one section with mad glare and a dumb tape measure on top of it. Show what they really look like. Put them both together side by side and take a picture. It doesnt matter what I write, Im the bad guy. People on here are so quick to jump to conclusions. Look at my rating bar. Ive been on here for years. Ive helped people numerous times with their swaps and such. I introduced Fibersmith to the forum and he has provided many of you with awesome products for your cars, and if it wasnt for me, he probably would of never joined. And someone will jump on the click a negative for him bandwagon because of one bad transaction. Also, look on ebay now, and see how many people say "sold as is, all sales final" and such. This is because of transactions just like this. Learn to use ebay, and come and see me.

Wow, thats funny you say that and then look what you did to me. I have never personally did any dealings with you and then you get in my business with rare. You have started alot of crap over the years. So don't think you have never done anything wrong. I don't see you giving your friends cars for free because they need a car to go to work. WELL, I did. If you changed your attiude a little maybe you would not have these problems. You get want you give.