It will not be street legal. HE plans on putting a passenger seat in it somehow he said so he can give rides in it.
The motor is suppost to generate around 600-700HP with a car wieght of about 1800lbs.
The body from what I remember talking with him is a cross between the IMSA body and the Drag Strip body that was produced. It is original not remanufactured. This was the only test body in this design that was produced.
I'm going to see Paul again tomorrow at the Gateway meeting so I'll make sure I write the info down this time.
The car should be done before the 20th anniversary show.
Cheever, How about I write up a article for CFOG-I about this car and it's progress?
Earl R.
[This message has been edited by FieroGT87 (edited 12-10-2002).]
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12:06 AM
Cheever3000 Member
Posts: 12400 From: The Man from Tallahassee Registered: Aug 2001
Cheever, How about I write up a article for CFOG-I about this car and it's progress?
Of course! I wish a lot more people would consider that with their projects and activities. Even a photo or two with a couple of paragraphs would be welcome! Whatever ya got.
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12:19 AM
Howard_Sacks Member
Posts: 1871 From: Cherry Hill, NJ Registered: Apr 2001
------------------ --Adam-- 1987 Blue GT 5-speed IM AOL: GTFiero Remember, always brush your milk, drink your teeth, dont do sleep and get eight hours of drugs
Drive it like you stole it...nice and slow so you dont get your @$$ caught by the cops
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01:10 PM
perkidelic Member
Posts: 772 From: Masury Ohio USA Registered: Aug 2002
Looks like a Porsche transaxle behind a SBC. That would put the motor in the cabin, with a stock wheelbase. Judging by the bodywork it looks like the wb is stock. Is the driver pushed forward with his feet in between the front wheels??? Nice project though.
perk
------------------
phitown.com * 85 Fiero concept/race car - in the works! * 84 R&D mule - 84 parts car * 79 Camaro - 88 Chevy custom truck - 91 & 89 Accords
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07:58 PM
FieroGT87 Member
Posts: 3195 From: St. Louis, Mo, USA Registered: Jul 2001
The car has a Porsche 930 transaxle with 930 axles and highly modified 930 hubcarriers.
Wheels are from Diamond racing and run 11.5x23.5R16 on the front and 12x25R16 rear Hoosier racing R45 compound tires.
Front brakes are Wildwood superlite 2A's and the rears are Porsche 930. Rack is a Appleton 2.0 rack and pinion.
The engine is a 383 stroker.
Paul found this body on E-bay 1-2 years ago. The guy who had it didn't know what he had. The body was made at the Pontiac design studio and is a one of a kind.
More to come.
Earl R.
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10:45 PM
Will Member
Posts: 14305 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Howard, I'm not sure he plans on racing the car. Something to do with classifications, I think. It was talked about but I don't remember that part of the conversation clearly.
Will I have no idea if appleton has a web site or not.
And yes this is one awesome setup.
Earl R.
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12:53 AM
Dec 31st, 2002
FieroGT87 Member
Posts: 3195 From: St. Louis, Mo, USA Registered: Jul 2001
Heres the only other pics of the car I have right now.
The articles Paul has been sending me are in a newer version of Word. I have word 6.0, anyone else have a newer version I can buy at a discounted price?
Paul found this body on E-bay 1-2 years ago. The guy who had it didn't know what he had. The body was made at the Pontiac design studio and is a one of a kind.
More to come.
If I am not mistaken, the follow images are from the eBay auction, with the auction write-up. Hopefully, nobody minds if I post it. If someone does, send me correspondence.
I found the auction interesting so I saved the info. Don't know the closing price, but either way, it is WAAAAAY cool to see it being put to use in the Fiero community.
Here is the auction write-up. The images will follow.
quote
This is a new Pontiac Fiero, we believe, Road Race Car.
Complete tube chassis, with all motor mounts, shock mounts and suspension mounts.
This chassis is completely welded and very high-tech.
Has no suspension parts.
It is just a bare chassis with alot of the aluminum interior work done.
Comes with one racing seat.
Also included is a complete fiberglass body which includes front bumper with ground effects, rear bumper with ground effects, hood, deck lid, both front fenders, both rear fenders, both doors, the roof, the rear engine vent panel, rear wrap-around spoiler, and fresh air scoop that reaches above roof.
The body is new, has all duz fasteners mounted and has never been painted.
Does have some minor cracks from being moved around, but nothing major.
Body mounts for duz fasteners have not yet been attached to frame.
Not sure if this is a Road Race Car or some sort of lightweight Drag Race Car.
Has lots of possibilities.
It is very light weight, would make a great Pro-Street Car.
Car appears to be set up for V-6 or 4-Cylinder, but chassis is stout enough that it would accept a small V-8.
I haven't talked to Paul in a little over a month, but I know this is his dream car. I heard the guy he out bid at the last second wasn't to happy about losing the bid. The guy actually called the seller thinking he won the car not knowing he was out bid.
I think he would be happy to know Paul is building one heck of a car with that IMSA body.
Earl R.
[This message has been edited by FieroGT87 (edited 02-14-2003).]
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09:27 PM
Feb 15th, 2003
cadero2dmax Member
Posts: 1266 From: Brighton, CO Registered: Oct 2001
The body was made at the Pontiac design studio and is a one of a kind.
The engine is a 357ci small block built by Paul Vanderley (the builder of the racing Super Duty Fieros)originally for his '34 coupe Bonneville Salt Flat car. It puts down about 700hp, and 500lbft of torque with 10:1 compression using pump gas.
The chassis is a Huffaker. Paul told me he was looking forward to meeting Joe Huffaker at the 20th, he had some questions (no doubt!).
Those that are interested in seeing this car need to attend the track day, dragstrip, and particularly the autocross (even just as spectators) just to see it perform.
Please also keep in mind that the Performance Division will have other equally exciting Fieros running at Waterford, at the dragstrip, AND in the autocross, in addition to the show.
This show will be the first time that a racing Fiero will be able to compete against other racecars that actually see the track in a car show!
BTW, Paul has stated his intent to caravan with the one starting in Houston, Dallas, OKC and Tulsa, and on to St. Louis. Then, on through Indy and up to Detroit. Anybody else want to jump aboard this caravan?
------------------ George Ryan Performance Director CFOG-I
[This message has been edited by cadero2dmax (edited 02-15-2003).]
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01:56 PM
FieroGT87 Member
Posts: 3195 From: St. Louis, Mo, USA Registered: Jul 2001
Paul changed his engine from my understanding. Originally he was going with the 383 putting out about 500HP. So this new engine with the Porche tranny should really be something as a hot lap car.
Earl R.
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03:05 PM
cadero2dmax Member
Posts: 1266 From: Brighton, CO Registered: Oct 2001
Paul changed his engine from my understanding. Originally he was going with the 383 putting out about 500HP. So this new engine with the Porche tranny should really be something as a hot lap car.
Earl R.
I didn't mean for it to sound like I was upstaging anyone, my intent was to bring the list current.
Paul has run the gamut of engine choices before he ran into this one, and yes, until just a few days ago was thinking of a stroker motor.
Are you or anybody else from Gateway joining our caravan to the 20th to watch Paul play? He told me it would most likely be his "coming-out party".
G
[This message has been edited by cadero2dmax (edited 02-15-2003).]
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04:42 PM
PFF
System Bot
FieroGT87 Member
Posts: 3195 From: St. Louis, Mo, USA Registered: Jul 2001
No, I didn't take it like that at all. I haven't been able to read the write-ups I have of the IMSA car because I need a newer version of Word. My knowledge is just from talking with him about the car. I wish I was the one building that car. I do envy him in that respect.
I plan on joining the caravan here in St. Louis to the show. I'm not sure if I'm driving the GT or going to trailer it yet. My GT has been garaged for the most part since I bought it and haven't had it on any long trips yet. I think the GT will be fine, but I'm a little nervious about it.
Earl R.
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06:06 PM
Feb 18th, 2003
FieroGT87 Member
Posts: 3195 From: St. Louis, Mo, USA Registered: Jul 2001
Paul sent me a E-mail the other day and he wanted me to say thanks to you for posting the pics that were on E-bay for the IMSA body. He said he needed those pictures for his history book on his IMSA car.
From Paul: "I was happy to see that Gold86SE posted the auction. I had lost those pictures and now I can print them again for my file! Could you thank him for me?"
He would have posted it himself, but every time he tries to post a message his computer crashes.
Earl R.
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09:37 PM
litespd Member
Posts: 8128 From: No where you want to be Registered: Aug 99
I was wondering if that was the same car...I remember seeing that auction on eBay. Wasn't sure if it was the same car or not until I saw the pictures that Gold86SE posted. The paint splotches on the LF fender were the clincher...
[This message has been edited by litespd (edited 02-18-2003).]
Paul sent me a E-mail the other day and he wanted me to say thanks to you for posting the pics that were on E-bay for the IMSA body. He said he needed those pictures for his history book on his IMSA car.
From Paul: "I was happy to see that Gold86SE posted the auction. I had lost those pictures and now I can print them again for my file! Could you thank him for me?"
He would have posted it himself, but every time he tries to post a message his computer crashes.
Earl R.
Very cool and I am thrilled that he is pleased.
BTW, I have them on my hard drive if he would like to have a copy. I say this because of the ones posted, there were a few I had to resize to meet requirements for image posting.
[edit] stupid grammer problems, hope i found them all
[This message has been edited by Gold-86SE (edited 02-19-2003).]
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12:21 PM
Apr 8th, 2003
FieroGT87 Member
Posts: 3195 From: St. Louis, Mo, USA Registered: Jul 2001
With the engine being rebuilt by Paul Vanderley in Mississippi and a tight, self imposed deadline looming, this past month was spent finishing some of the brackets and starting on the car's systems. I have decided to push as hard as possible to "complete" the car by July 1. The goal is to test and tune the car at the CFOGi show in Pontiac, Michigan on July 17.
The show is a 4-day event to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the introduction of the Fiero. When I say "complete" I mean that the car will be running and track worthy, but not of show quality. I wanted to wait until the car was complete before its first showing, but I cannot pass up an opportunity like this.
Paul has confirmed that the engine will be complete and ready to pick up by the end of March (Helllloooo 700+ hp). When I bring the engine home and get it set in place; the position of many items will be apparent. Things like the firewall, seat, cross bracing, and other items must be fabricated and installed around the engine. Until the engine is installed, none of this can be done accurately. Therefore, in order to accelerate the process, I am fabricating other systems in the car that do not depend on the engine position. This month I focused on the front clip, brake ducts, radiator mounting, steering and a custom built engine stand for the back of my truck. I am also working on designing the brake and accelerator system.
The first question I expect after my last statement is "Why are you designing an accelerator system?" Good question. This car has a horsepower to weight ratio of about 3.3. That means that for every 3.3 pounds, there is one horsepower to propel it. For reference, NASCAR is about 4.3. The amount of force put to the ground is tremendous and there is very little weigh to hold it down. If the car is at high speed, there is no problem; however, at lower speeds (under 100 mph) it will be very easy to brake the tires free. In short, the gas pedal will be touchy and the car will be extremely difficult to "feather" through a curve. Loss of control would be catastrophic. On shorter courses (SOLO II), the car will be slower because it will never be able to hook up. Therefore, I am designing an accelerator configuration that will adjust the usable power of the engine. In the production car, the throttle cable is pulled by a lever arm that is connected to the gas pedal. The distance that the pedal is depressed corresponds to a ratio that the throttle linkage is actuated. The longer the lever arm is on the throttle cable side, the further the cable is pulled and the further it opens the carburetor. Normally, this distance is set and stops are put in place to keep from overextending the butterfly valve on the carb. What I intend to do is adjust the end position of the throttle cable on the accelerator pedal lever arm. By doing this, I retain the full stroke of the pedal while only actuating the carb to a predetermined position. For example, in the normal position, the full pedal means full carb actuation. With an adjustment, full pedal means ˝ carb actuation. The control of this will be done using a brake bias knob on the dash. I will be able to adjust the usable horsepower on the fly. This will greatly improve the usefulness of the engine for many events.
As I mentioned earlier, I did a lot of work on the front clip. I finished adjusting the mounts for the radiator and grinding down sharp points.
I then painted them silver (see attached photo). Next, I spent lots of time cutting off old tabs on the frame. Lots and lots of time. I also installed the rear roll bar supports and triangulated the upper connection of the rear suspension tube. The roll bar supports are a requirement for SCCA.
I also fabricated the brake ducts this past month. I ordered some of that "special" 550 F degree, orange, NASCAR tubing. I had a hard time figuring out what to use to mount the hose to the spindle. Here is a trick you can use at home. Exhaust pipe. I went to my local exhaust shop and asked for some 3" pipe. Perfect! Then I made a pair of brackets and welded them up. The bracket simply unbolts form the spindle when maintenance is needed.
In preparation for sheet metal fabrication, I purchased a Grizzly 3 in 1 sheet metal fabricating tool. It is rated for 22 gauge mild steel, but I will be using it on .040 aluminum. I'll let you know if it holds up. I intend to spend much of March fabricating the sheet metal panels.
Part ordering was high on my list last month too. I ordered some Sparco Pro 2000 seats, Sparco 6 point camloc belts, and a Sparco steering wheel. I also ordered all of the steering shaft components. The AFCO universals and Sweet Manufacturing quick steering wheel release are more durable than most. I picked up a set of overhead Wilwood aluminum pedals and US Brake master cylinders.
I installed the steering system as seen in the attached photo and finished the removable PS support tube.
There is still lots of work to be done and a quickly approaching deadline.
Thank you,
Paul Hosler rrunner@egyptian.net
Earl R.
[This message has been edited by FieroGT87 (edited 04-08-2003).]
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10:45 AM
FieroGT87 Member
Posts: 3195 From: St. Louis, Mo, USA Registered: Jul 2001
Even with substantial progress during the month of March, things seem to be moving too slowly. I still believe I will be able to make the July 1 (read this as July 16) deadline to make the CFOG-I 20th show in Pontiac, Michigan however, the car may be a little rougher than I would like.
Again, lots of progress this month. I have included several pictures for your viewing pleasure. Comments and suggestions are encouraged. I want the feedback and ways to improve the car.
The big news this month is centered on the engine. I received pictures and a dyno sheet. As you can see from the pictures, it even looks like a Winston Cup motor! I was excited to see it. Paul Vanderley told me he had done something to the engine that he had never done before and asked me to see if I could find it. I was skeptical. I thought that there was nothing that Paul had not done before. I was surprised to find out that the valve covers that say "VanDerLey Engines" were custom. He had them made to reduce the height of the motor so I could get it under my main rear firewall bar. What a guy! No charge too. I think they are beautiful and show off the Fiero-famous engine builder's craftsmanship.
Okay, okay… Someone out there is impatiently saying, what did the dyno say! Drum roll please
645.7 hp at 6900 RPM, 534 lb-ft at 5000 RPM. That should be enough. My wife and I will pick up the engine on Friday.
Much of the sheet metal work has now been done. The radiator intake shroud, pan, front firewall, door panels, and rear firewall are 70% complete. This took about 60 to 70 hours to complete. The seats arrived as well. I installed them after the pedals and steering wheel was positioned. I also got the mounts installed for the 3" - six point belts. They and the seat are very comfortable. I had a tough time making myself get out of the car. Busy dreaming.
I ordered the clutch and all components to make it work. I ordered the clutch from Renegade Hybrids in Nevada because they specialize in Chevy SB/ Porsche drivetrain combinations for racing applications. Scott gave me a hand in determining what clutch would run best with my setup. I have received the brake and clutch line as well as the slave cylinder. This project is on hold until I get the engine mounted. With the help Fuel Safe, I designed and ordered a custom fuel cell. It will hold 17 gallons and should provide plenty of laps at 7 mpg. On most tracks, that should be about 50 laps.
Once I get the engine home, I will need to decide if the current motor mounts work for well. What I mean is, is the engine too high or too low, or is it too far rearward considering I have moved the rear wheels forward about 1 inch. I plan to move it so that the axles are straight and the engine sets as low as possible. Naturally, this will help stability.
I picked up a used 20ft enclosed Timber Wolf trailer. She tows nicely, but I decided to purchase an anti-sway friction bar for the hitch. This coupled with the load levelers will greatly improve the stability of the trailer. Saturday (yesterday) was the first time I took the car anywhere in the trailer. I took it over to a glass shop to have the windshield put in. Much better! This car surprisingly uses a factory windshield. That and the taillights are the only stock items on the vehicle.
Please forgive the short write-up this month. The combination of this car, my job and a little one on the way, I have had very little time (or energy) for anything else.
The aero-notch IMSA cars have always been my most favorite...
That body actualy appears to be identical to the Huffaker cars that ran the GTU class from '84 on. Here's a pic of the '84 DOLE car that won 2 races that year, taken from an "Inside the IMSA Fiero" article. The article actually states that after the '85 GT, all '86s and up were going to be aero-notches. Funny how plans change...
We really need to get SpeedChannel or someone to cover the 20th anniv show...this is definitely going to be an awesome event...even for non-Fiero people who are just car fans!
------------------ TRiAD Motorsports 10 Years and Counting!
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11:21 AM
Doug Chase Member
Posts: 1487 From: Seattle area, Washington State, USA Registered: Sep 2001
Cool! I saw this car on ebay. It's good to see that it went to somebody who can really appreciate it.
Keep us posted.
------------------ Doug Chase '88 Fiero Formula 5-spd (autocrosser) '88 Fiero GT 5-spd (daily driver) '85 Fiero GT 5-spd (rally car) '87 Fiero SE V6 5-spd (too good of a deal to pass up) Custom roll cage fabrication available Custom exhaust fabrication available
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02:07 PM
perkidelic Member
Posts: 772 From: Masury Ohio USA Registered: Aug 2002
I'm still curious how he fit an SBC and Porsche transaxle in the stock wheelbase. Can you guys post some pics when he gets the seats and steering column in so we can see how it is laid out???
and I am thrilled that he is pleased.
.gif)
