I hear that gas prices will double or even triple over the next 3 years!!! Reason you ask. Well according to some second hand info it to get the government allow them to do more exploration and drilling off shore. It seems this is a bit of a chess game going on between tree huggers the government and the oil companies. I don't know how reliable this info is but it sounds like something that can happen.

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That brings up an interesting question... when/if fossil fuels are no longer the main power source for our vehicles, who here is going to go for an engine swap to move to electric or natural gas? I just think it would be kinda interesting to still be seeing fieros on the road in 2030.

There was a cool electric Fiero at Carlisle last weekend. I guess that guy is way ahead of us.

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• Red 88 GT T-TOP
  
• Red 86 GT
  

quote Originally posted by skitime: There was a cool electric Fiero at Carlisle last weekend. I guess that guy is way ahead of us.

hehe yeah I saw that he works for an Airline

I know every one is pissed about gas prices but look at it this way.....gas is one of the few things that did not increase with the cost of living. For almost 20 years we were paying about the same price. I read a report saying that if it would have we would be paying 7 to 8 bucks a gallon right now!

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Hey Mr. Ricer come over here and tell me how your stickers make you faster.....

I'm thinking fuel cells are going to be the way to go. I'd do it now - if it were economically feasible and I didn't loose any performance. But those criteria aren't likely to be met for a while.

quote Originally posted by firstfiero: I know every one is pissed about gas prices but look at it this way.....gas is one of the few things that did not increase with the cost of living. For almost 20 years we were paying about the same price. I read a report saying that if it would have we would be paying 7 to 8 bucks a gallon right now!

before the oil embargo it was like 20 cents a gallon. then they jacked up the prices, and have never gone down since, If gas prices do tripple over the next few years, it will destroy the economy of the US. Transportation costs will be sky high, material goods will cost more because of it, food will cost more, people wont be able to afford to drive to work, unemployment will go way up, we may go into a recession, or probably a depression, and its all because of the oil tycoons.

No, it's actually all because of the environmentalist wackos who won't allow more refineries to be built. Screw the caribou and the spotted owl...I want gasoline.

(Now I'll get to watch the feathers fly...)

no no no! if gas prices double or triple the economy is no going to be laid waste!

It cost about 30 or 35 cents a mile to drive a car or small truck - more for a larger truck. If you are getting 25mpg thats 1/25th of a gallon per mile or .04 gallons.

so if gas is a dollar a gallon thats 4 cents per mile for gas, and 26 to 31 cents per mile for the cost of the car, insurance, maintainance...

if gas goes to $2/gallon thats 8 cents per mile for gas, if it goes to $3/ gallon thats 12 cents per mile.

so the cost of driving doesnt double if gas prices doubles, it only goes up 11 or 15%.

that is not including the cost of paying the driver for transportation.

think of it this way, what does it cost a month to own a car? $250 in car payments, $100 a month in insurance? If you put 10 gallons in the tank a week thats about $60 a month now, $80 a month at $2 a gallon.

compaired to the cost of the car itself, the fuel is dirt cheap. In fact a car is one of the few machines in the history of the world that costs more for the machine than for the cost of all the fuel it will burn during its lifetime.

When they come out with a 2 passenger electric car that can go 60mph and has a 30 mile range or more for $7k or so, Ill buy one.

LOL watch the feather fly!

Ponti4me
Yep thats exactly what I said but if they do it in yearly cycles it mught just be enough to allow for adjustments in the transport sector. I know here SEPTA has increased it's fares "because of union contracts" but I feel the increase more than covers the costs for union bennys, so maybe they know more than we think. I'll be watching this very closely. I think I might invest in home heeting oil and a few others. Natural gas just went up 150% last winter. It does make you wonder what is going to happen.
I remember the 70's crisis and prices never did drop so why should now be any different.

ChadMan: It's got NOTHING to do with the environmentalists. In fact, it's got REALLY not much to do with oil exploration at home OR abroad. Has anyone here monitored crude prices over the last 3 to 4 years? When prices of oil per barrel went up to $32 USD about 3 years ago, prices at the pump went up by about 5 to 10 cents per liter here in Canada, or about 55 cents a liter (Alberta). What happened later? Was anyone ALIVE 2 years ago?? Prices dropped to about $17 US bucks a barrel! Did prices get cut in half at the pumps??? NO!! They dropped by one or two pennies. NOW prices are back in the high range, about $27-28 US a barrel, which is STILL not as high as 3 years ago. IS ANYONE SEEING THIS???? All oil companies are reporting RECORD profits EVERY QUARTER. So who's screwing us? It's NOT SUV drivers (I don't own one myself and would never buy one) and it's NOT the middle east (at least not to the extent that everyone thinks it is) and definitely NOT the environmentalists. It's the HUGE oil companies that have been allowed to almost monopolize the market. THEY'RE the ones telling us that there is a shortage of oil and that WE are the ones to blame. This is horse sh*t. Do you believe that there is a shortage of oil and that we're paying almost double of what we paid 2 years ago, while their reported profits are skyrocketing??? THINK PEOPLE!!!!!

The thing that I find hardest to swallow about the whole situation is the fact that we can do practically nothing about this. It's not like buying a chocolate bar, where if one guy is charging $5 then we go across the street and get it for $1. We have no choice but to pay whatever they ask, and they know it. We have to work, we have to go to school, get grocerees, etc. Transportation is a necessity today and they are cashing in on it to say the least.

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If you can read this, I'm parked.

Agreed. Especially in places where public transport is very limited.
I think you guys in the US of A have SOME degree of competition. At least I remember when I was there, there were some differences in price from station to station. Here in Canada it's like a conspiracy. ALL stations have the same price!!! If one station goes up, all go up. If there is a station that has a lower price by 2 or 3 pennies, EVERYONE knows about it and lines up to save a buck.

Our CENEX C store here in town dictates what the prices will be at the other stations here in town.

If they go up, then Amoco (where my wife works) has to go up to what CENEX is now officially charging its customers. If CENEX puts their price down, then Amoco matches the price again.

Amoco and the other stations here in town can not change or charge a price other then what CENEX charges. CENEX dictates the going price here in our town, yet we are only a few pennies lower then the towns around us.

Wife is constantly doing drive by's by CENEX to see what they are currently charging to make sure their station hasn't changed their price and to make sure it is at the same price, otherwise, CENEX throws a fit with the gas suppliers and Amoco wouldn't get any gas at the next fill up.

To me, isn't that or wouldn't that be considered "price fixing"?

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I also heard a rumour that the gov't wants to implement an "environmental" fee for people who car pool. I don't know the details, or how it would work. Again, this may or may not be true, but I tell you, it never ends.

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If you can read this, I'm parked.

I dont think that many would have complained if it went up a few cents every year with cost of living. Maybe we would be paying $7 a gallon, but wed be used to it. Theres no reason to double it in a couple of weeks. Id like to double my income starting in june. On the Today show some guy was showing all the oil companies averaged a 50% increase in revenu so far this year. So wheres the hurting part thats making them raise it now. Very simple - GREED.

aGREED.

Ok. That was lame, but that is THE ONLY REASON for high prices!

Hey Ya'll

I have just completed a course in University dealing with Environmental issues and our planet. There is this new thing that has been proposed to the government for years, which has always been looked over.

Switching to a Hydrogen based economy instead of a Carbon based one would tremendously help out our planet and our pocketbook. One idea proposed is lowering income taxes, and rasing gas prices, so that those people who drive vechicles could afford it, and those people who do not drive/own vechicles would be able to invest their money in other ways. Eventually, the economy would switch over to using Hydrogen, solar and wind power in cars and homes. With everyone switching over, the conversion would be cheaper (instead of currently being hugely expensive, and inaccessable) and would help our planet work better. Both win--AND our taxes would be lower!!

Lots more to this whole debate...Hey, I might as well share what I had gleened from my $500 I paid for the course :P

quote Originally posted by FieroHeather: Hey Ya'll Switching to a Hydrogen based economy instead of a Carbon based one would tremendously help out our planet and our pocketbook. One idea proposed is lowering income taxes, and rasing gas prices, so that those people who drive vechicles could afford it, and those people who do not drive/own vechicles would be able to invest their money in other ways. Eventually, the economy would switch over to using Hydrogen, solar and wind power in cars and homes. With everyone switching over, the conversion would be cheaper (instead of currently being hugely expensive, and inaccessable) and would help our planet work better. Both win--AND our taxes would be lower!! :P

Welcome to the Forum Heather
So I guees we will be waiting some time for warp drives huh.

Any way that sounds logical in a governmental way. take tobacco for example. the raised the price to kill off demand and deter new smokers, so why not do it with fuel and maybe even offer up some really cool incentives to promote research and such Either idea still comes down to one thing ... Pull up the bootstraps and invest in shoe companies

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 05-23-2001).]

The main reason that gas prices shoot up so fast now is because of "just-in-time" delivery and the low inventories that go with it. If you have just a little too little, then BLAMMO!

We really can't complain about our gas prices, look what Europe and some other places pay. I think higher gas prices may do some good. Get some of those M-----F---ing SUV's off the road with their 30 gallon tanks and 12 MPG. I hate SUV's.

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Proud Owner of 85 GT

True we have enjoied low gas prices but I'm sure we will equal the rest of the world soon enough

Thanks 84Bill! I have been reading PFF for about two weeks now, and I thought I'd join in on the fun.

One thing that I did not mention is that the governments have been overlooking this simple solution to help the environment and change our economy because it would take away from their profits for the first year or two... Anything the government can do to help their people is majorly overlooked if it doesnt help themselves financially as well.

Enjoy the low gas prices while you still can! They have just went down to $0.754 per Liter here in Barrie...not too bad--on Saturday they were $0.829/L.

The only reason gas prices are high is because they know people will pay it. Price is dictated by supply and demand. Because every aspect of our lives is dependant on transportation then demand for gas is constant. So therefore they can charge whatever they want. The excuses about low supply are just to pull the wool over our eyes.

One solution that would work, but is nearly impossible to organize is for everyone to boycott one of the major oil companies and all of their subsidiaries. If no-one is buying from them they will be forced to drop prices to keep from going under, when they do the competition will need to drop prices to compete.

The problem with this is it needs to be well planned and choreographed at which point to switch between companies in order to keep them competing for your business. Which is a hard feat to accomplish accross a whole nation of people.

Yep we will pay it for sure, a boycot just is not an option unless I stop going to work for a month in fact every one will need to do the same to even make the smallest of dents in the oil companies pocket.
I was thinking of that rice mobile insult or something like that as an option but it still requires gas so even then they still get you.
Gasoline is a vicious additiction I feel will take decades to get over. The guy at carlisle had the right idea with the electric power but 70 miles or 70mph but not both is not very appealing. hummm but then again I only drive 40 miles a day total but usually at 65 to 70

As far as the environmentalists are concerned they have put a stop to exploration in many "safe" zones and the public in general agrees. but take away the publics money and lookout there are no friends and the public WILL drown out the cries of the environmentalists in short order. It's just a nasty dependency we all suffer from. Money is definatly at the root of it for sure.

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 05-24-2001).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FieroHeather:

"Enjoy the low gas prices while you still can! They have just went down to $0.754 per Liter here in Barrie...not too bad--on Saturday they were $0.829/L"

As shown with Heathers message, consumers now see anything under 80 cents per litre a bargain on gas where just about 2 years ago 49.9 was the bargain of the day. What it comes down to is conditioning the public to accept the prices they are willing to offer. I recently wrote a letter to the editor of a local paper about this. Canadian Tire up here has promotions that give us random gas stations offering 20 cents per litre off regular prices from 6am to 9am, recently done in Hamilton and a competitor up the street followed suit, question is "Just in time delivery", WOW! talk about coincidence that particular truck also had some cheap gas on it that could compete at 59.9 cents! otherwise Canadian Tire would have had all the business!, what a load of crap! can't tell me that either was giving the gas at any loss! sure they probably weren't making huge profits but definitely not losing their shirts either! Kinda reminds me of the issue that pi$$ed me off few years ago when prices spiked just in time for the summer- gas companies came back when questioned and said it costs more to refine summer gas! we said really? then its ok, that winter PetroCan offered us winter gas at no extra charge! how generous! So what it really boils down to is consumer ignorance in accepting what we are told by business and government as gospel. Sorry but for some reason this topic gets me boiling!... and i am probably one of the most pro-business, "what the market will bear" people i know!

quote take tobacco for example. the raised the price to kill off demand and deter new smokers

So they apparently say this is for that reason to John Q. Public.

FACT:
The tobacco companies recently raised their prices as a result of all the legal litigation they are currently experiencing and to cover the costs of law suits and subsequent payouts awareded and/or pending that they must or will make.

Yes, it may deter some, however, it has been only a smaller then recognizable margin of those who can not afford the slightly higher prices.

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What I ment by "they" raised the prices I should have said the governments implementation of higher taxes on cigarettes forced a rise in prices that were passed on to the consumer since it cut into the vast profit margines of the tobacco co's the reason according to the government was to set asside money for the tratment of tobacco related products effects on the insurance industry and hospitals for cancer treatment claims by tobacco users (yeah right). If you believe that I have a Fiero with 3 miles on it for sale.
Even the suit money that Florida won 5 years ago is still wrangeled up in red tape and has yet to be put to use for the unfortunate tobacco sufferers as it was intended. IMO tobacco should be ranked up there with cocane and heroin as far as adictibility is concerned, maybe even gas for that matter
Now that suits are coming in yes another increase will and has been implimented.

I hear from credible sources the reason for high gas prices right now is not the supply of crude oil, but from the fact that refineries are operating at maximum capacity.

You could bring in ships full of free crude oil right now and they could not refine it into fuels any faster - that is where the bottle neck is. refineries have not been built to keep up with rising demands because of environmental and government regulations restricting their constructnion.

So it really falls back on increased demand. We are getting the LOWEST average mpg's from our vehicles this year since 1980!!!!

take a guess why? SUVs! Why anyone needs to drive a six passenger SUV that could go up one side of the rocky mountains and down the other without the benefit of a road, as a commuter vehicle, with one occupant, in the city, on a grid locked highway going 3mph, in the summer...

Its the out of control increase in usage that has driven the price up - and the oil companies cant build any more refineries to keep up with the demand. So yes, their profits are up because their refineries are running at 100% capacity - the ideal situation for a factory - and demand is high.

there is lots we can do about it. Next time you buy a vehicle get one that gets 40mpg or more. Have one big vehicle for family trips and a small one for commuting to work. Get a small motorcycle. Car pool. Keep a shopping list on the kitchen counter and only go to the store ONCE a week, instead of every day. Plan your trips to the mall or shopping centers. stop spraying gasoline on your neighbors lawn at night so your lawn will look greener (c:

OK here is my 2 cents......

I remember 49.9, it was nice....

I remember 59.9, it was nice....

Honestly let's look at it....

approx 38 litres (let's use that

38 * .499 = 18.962

38 * .699 = 26.52

38 * .83 = 31.54

THAT is a tad exteme for me, 31 VS 18.. that's killer, 69.9 is ok though!

quote Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: stop spraying gasoline on your neighbors lawn at night so your lawn will look greener (c:

Hehe yeah but this is reality and planning is not everyone's cup of tea and besides SUV's are great! If you like smash into someone, kill them and use lame excuses for your road rage like jeas I never even saw them or he sped up as I was lane changing.
Damn i've been found out, guess I'll have to start using diluted soilent green (victims of merderous SUV accidents). on my lawn instead

Whenever someone tells me they drive an SUV cause its safer, and they love their family and want to protec them

I tell them I drive a Kenworth 18 wheeler for commuting, and to take the kids to the mall, with 20,000 lbs of steel rebar in the trailer, cause I love my kids, and dont want them to be orphans - in fact I broadsided an amtrack train once with my Kenworth, derailed 3 cars and killed 356 people, but I walked away without a scratch. (c:

they stand there with this blank look on their face, and dont know if Im serious or not.

quote Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: Whenever someone tells me they drive an SUV cause its safer, and they love their family and want to protec them I tell them I drive a Kenworth 18 wheeler for commuting, and to take the kids to the mall, with 20,000 lbs of steel rebar in the trailer, cause I love my kids, and dont want them to be orphans - in fact I broadsided an amtrack train once with my Kenworth, derailed 3 cars and killed 356 people, but I walked away without a scratch. (c: they stand there with this blank look on their face, and dont know if Im serious or not.

Hmmm.. True statement? Sorry to hear if it is! OUCH!

by my calculations Grint I don't think thats possible since 3 rail cars wont hold 300+ people unless it fell off a cliff onto another 3 rail cars that is

the absurdity of driving the biggest machine possible on the road, thinking somehow that makes you a better father or husband, or makes you safer it true.

but, no, i have never driven an 18 wheeler.

Geeze guys, do I have to put the little smirk face ;) on all my posts to let you off the hook and know when I am only kidding?

I drive my car with extreme caution with my kids in the car and so far by the grace of god? have not had an accident with them in the car, the wife now thats a different story, 2x with my son while driving a 73 Tbird and my ::sniff:: 88 fiero but she just drives without regard for what might happen if I just blast ahead without thaught of what others might do. and thats where we differ greatly in our driving habbits.

Ken
The refineries thing MIGHT sound like a valid excuse, BUT, how do you explain the oil companies' RECORD profits, virtually EVERY QUARTER in the last year or so??! Sure, SUV's guzzle gas and I hate them! BUT, whoever said that cars consumed A LOT more 20 years ago, while prices were WAAAY lower is right. The following excuses for high prices are ALL Bull Sh*t and probably started by the gas companies:
1. Refineries are at their capacities (what the f*ck is THAT all about??)
2. SUV's consume so much (fact, but not a real reason).
3. There's a shortage of oil (yeah, tell me another one).
4. OPEC has cut down on oil production (true, but no more than 3 or 4 years ago when price at the pump was MUCH lower)
5. Environmentalists are preventing exploration at home (someone has yet show me an environmentalist with more money for lobbying than an oil company).
GET THIS IN YOUR HEAD PEOPLE: IT'S ALL GREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Boycotting one company is not a bad idea. In fact, there's a chain letter going around up here to boycott Petro Canada and Esso (Imperial Oil). Buy gas from ANYONE else, but not from these two until they're forced to start lowering prices. This (in theory, at least) MAY start a price war eventually. Even if it doesn't work, I'm doing MY share of boycotting.

Voytek, grinthock, fieroheather, others, read the previous posting i put in about gas companies up here and especially end of posting... definitley shows greed of oil companies and also how they prey on ignorance of consumers.

hmmmm I paid $1.01 a litre yesterday. It is only getting worse.

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When I was young I spent 80% of my money on Women, Gambling and Alcohol. I guess I wasted the rest.

quote Originally posted by AusFiero: hmmmm I paid $1.01 a litre yesterday. It is only getting worse.

WOW! thats ( not )cheap I'm up to 1.95 for premium 1.74 for reg and it pings my engine to hell and back.

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 05-24-2001).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 84Bill:
Originally posted by AusFiero:
hmmmm I paid $1.01 a litre yesterday. It is only getting worse.

WOW! thats cheap I'm up to 1.95 for premium 1.74 for reg and it pings my engine to hell and back.

Mr. Bill How cheap 1 U.S. Gal = 3.7854 Litres, translation $3.82 3/10 per U.S. Gal!!, excluding exchange of course!