Before you say it, I know that SC is more HP but is it really that much HP when your talking about putting it in a Fiero. 200-205 HP in Fiero is really a lot a HP for such a small car. I am really looking for a semi daily driver with reliability and performance. Not looking for a car to drag race but give modern sport cars a good run for the money. I get a 3800 NA for 200 today but SC are getting scarce unless you want to pay a premium (600). I know I am going to have to rebuild what ever I get and it will cost a little bit more for a SC to rebuild. My wife has a 02 grand prix with a 3800 NA and it will put you back in your seat pretty good. I am looking at least a series 2. I am not going with a series 1 because of all the benefits in the series 2. Is the 400 dollar extra really worth 40 more HP and improved torque curve for what I am looking for. Let me hear your opinions.

Okay, in stock form it's only 35 horses up. But who leaves it stock, when a pulley swap is so easy?
And 240 HP in a 2900 pound car isn't fast. First gear can feel fairly quick, but it just doesn't pull anything like a cam-and-heads LS1 F-car. And those are another 700 pounds.
The extra $400 is a good value, go on e-bay motors and find just the supercharger. You might score one for that. But it won't include the specific intake manifold, specific heads, specific injectors, et cetera.
Then there's the internals, like pistons.
The L36 will take modest boost, and turbo kits are a viable upgrade for later, when you get bored with 205 HP.
I've seen people on here report 34 mpg highway with the SC, and I haven't seen the non-boosted swaps reporting any better.
I have the SC version sitting in the corner of my garage, and it doesn't hurt my feelings the least bit.
As for rebuilding it, that's an assumption I don't make. That's what compression tests, leakdown tests, oil pressure gauges and bore-scopes are for. Determining what you have.

[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 02-26-2011).]

I'd look for a 3800NA that doesn't need to be rebuilt. There are a ton of them around.

I have the L-26 series 3, NA. I see no real use for more power in the 1st 2 gears of my 4 speed unless I go to bigger rubber. The SC would help in 3rd and 4th, but by then you are way over any limits anyhow. It's a real hoot to drive.

Most guys who build up a L67 (Series 2 S/C verison) use a L36 (series 2 N/a version) lower end and turbo it or use l67 heads intake s/c and injectors. The l36 has 9.5:1 L67 has 8.5:1 compression. so you get more power.. You can get a L26 (series 3 N/A verison) from LQK with a warranty, 30-40k miles for around 400. so that being said you could find one cheaper , LKQ is known to be expensive.. Then you wont have to rebuild, you will need a TB adapter plate to run a cable TB a couple other things will be needed but you talkin no more than 600 for a 30-40k engine that u dont have to rebuild...Then if you feel you need more power, turbo or s/c it.

[This message has been edited by black88fiero (edited 02-26-2011).]

block crank and cam are the same between the l36 and l67 as far as I've read. the only difference is pistons, rods, and balance shaft. Heads have injector holes in the l67. If yourre going to go to the trouble of rebuilding an engine get a cheap l36 and buy the rest of the parts off of clubgp or 3800pro. Screw the supercharger and jut turbo through the l36 intake until you can afford an l26 intake.

Honestly though, it'd be easier/cheaper to just buy a donor car with an l36, swap in the tranny and engine. you'll have all the parts you need and you can use fiero axles in the 4t65 nonhd without modification depending on how you mount.

I have seen L36s for $400 with 15,000 miles on them. If it has less than 175,000 miles on it, I would just put it in. Taken care of, these engines will run upwards of 300,000 miles.

Steve

Thanks for all your replies. I forgot the NA had higher compression. I guess the NA would be the best route and add more later if needed. What is LQK?

A chain of junk yards

I bought my 2001 L36 for $250 from LKQ with 50k on it. It came with harness, computer, and all accessories. I'm sure I'll eventually end up with an L67, but the NA price was right and in my budget for the foreseeable future.

you have to remember that the sc 3800 has lower compression so it can inject more fuel when its supercharged, vs supercharging a N/A 3800

i have a 3800 n/a and its plenty...i bought everything to supercharge it, then i stood back and thought...why?? I dont have anything to prove, i dont want to race the car, i just wanted a good clean swap and i already had that with the non supercharged motor! And yes, its still alot of fun to drive!!!

quote Originally posted by IanT720: you have to remember that the sc 3800 has lower compression so it can inject more fuel when its supercharged, vs supercharging a N/A 3800

huh?


The higher compression engine will produce more power with forced induction.

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: huh? The higher compression engine will produce more power with forced induction.

The factory SC engine will have a lower compression ratio than the NA engine, to avoid fuel knock (premature fuel detonation) when the pressurized intake system charges the cylinders.

So, if you start with the NA engine and customize it with a supercharger, don't you run the risk of fuel knock under heavy throttle, due to the NA engine's higher compression ratio?

Really, I'm just asking--and waiting for someone with more expertise to respond. I've been running the factory 2.8 in my 88 GT. I don't know anything firsthand about engine swaps or turbo/superchargers.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 02-27-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: huh? The higher compression engine will produce more power with forced induction.

Runs the risk of mr. k showing up earlier than expected from my understanding of things.

The only reason I see to use the l67 bottom end would be the stronger design of the internals; specifically the shorter and stouter rods. It really depends on where you want your horsepower goals to go I suppose. How high have you seen the l32 bottom end pushed? I'd like to know how well it could handle 15 psi of boost. Would save me sourcing a l67 shortblock before my build.

with a stock pulley I wouldnt really worry about it... Higher octane gas burns longer... solving knock problem. right?

[This message has been edited by dhobbs84sc (edited 02-28-2011).]

quote Originally posted by dhobbs84sc: with a stock pulley I wouldnt really worry about it... Higher octane gas burns longer... solving knock problem. right?

Stock pulley true.

Personally I'm going turbo.

quote Originally posted by jasonfox: Runs the risk of mr. k showing up earlier than expected from my understanding of things. The only reason I see to use the l67 bottom end would be the stronger design of the internals; specifically the shorter and stouter rods. It really depends on where you want your horsepower goals to go I suppose. How high have you seen the l32 bottom end pushed? I'd like to know how well it could handle 15 psi of boost. Would save me sourcing a l67 shortblock before my build.

The same rods were used in all series2/series3 applications, while most series3's got a powdered metal manufacturing process. Some claim them to be stronger, but it has never been proven.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: The same rods were used in all series2/series3 applications, while most series3's got a powdered metal manufacturing process. Some claim them to be stronger, but it has never been proven.

http://www.enginebuildermag...8l_buick_engine.aspx

supercharged and na rods are different; there's even a picture.

The L67 rods were conciderably stronger than the n/a rods. The powdered rods in the series 3 supercharged were stronger yet.

"he L67 rods were conciderably stronger than the n/a rods. The powdered rods in the series 3 supercharged were stronger yet."
The L67 and L36 rods are the same. The powdered metal rods are supposedly stronger but apparently more brittle. Nobody on this forum should ever make enough power to break either so it doesnt matter.

35hp is not much but 55 lbs-TQ more you really feel it. That is the big difference between the two.

quote Originally posted by Tengis: The L67 and L36 rods are the same.

L67 and L36 connecting rods are NOT the same. Yes they are made the same and using the same material, but the L67 rods are much thicker/beefier than the L36 rods. Of course this also makes the L67 rods heavier as well.

-ryan

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OVERKILL IS UNDERRATED

Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com

quote Originally posted by IanT720:you have to remember that the sc 3800 has lower compression so it can inject more fuel when its supercharged, vs supercharging a N/A 3800

Also, more fuel equals less mpg, but, hey, cheaper fuel is just a couple of months away.

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: L67 and L36 connecting rods are NOT the same. Yes they are made the same and using the same material, but the L67 rods are much thicker/beefier than the L36 rods. Of course this also makes the L67 rods heavier as well. -ryan

+1 Hence the different balance shaft.

Lov'in the comments. I really think NA is the way to go because it gives me a good base to start with and I can get crazy with it as I go. I also have another cradle so I can swap back and forth and see what I like.

quote Originally posted by fieropunk: Lov'in the comments. I really think NA is the way to go because it gives me a good base to start with and I can get crazy with it as I go. I also have another cradle so I can swap back and forth and see what I like.

Plus when if you want the better bottom end later all you have to do is put in pistons/rods, balance shaft, and cam gear from an l67. You can get that for around 115. Slap a cheap turbo on there and get sick with it.

[This message has been edited by jasonfox (edited 02-28-2011).]

A N/A 3800 will take 600hp without issue. You will find other weak links before you have to worry about your rods and pistons.

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

EDIT: My response to the arguing about rods is simply: lol.

[This message has been edited by Tengis (edited 03-01-2011).]

quote Originally posted by jasonfox: +1 Hence the different balance shaft.

AND the different amount of weight in the counterbalances built into the crank, flexplate, and balancer.

Piston pins are different as well (SC pins being thicker than N/A pins).

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: AND the different amount of weight in the counterbalances built into the crank, flexplate, and balancer. Piston pins are different as well (SC pins being thicker than N/A pins).

All the vin 1 and vin k cranks were the same as far as i've read.

cranks are the same.. its the balancers and flexplates that are different between the vin 1 to vin k engines

Cranks may be the same but is the factory balancing job going to be? Probably not. Hence the reason why I said the counterbalance weight is different.

Bottom line: If you're keeping an L36 crank but are installing L67 rods, pistons, piston pins, and connecting rods; you should probably have the rotating assy's balance checked.

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: Cranks may be the same but is the factory balancing job going to be? Probably not. Hence the reason why I said the counterbalance weight is different. Bottom line: If you're keeping an L36 crank but are installing L67 rods, pistons, piston pins, and connecting rods; you should probably have the rotating assy's balance checked.

You get my vote on that one. Sounds about right.

If anyone pays to have their 3800 balance checked then they are wasting money. Nobody here is making ridiculous power.

quote Originally posted by Tengis: If anyone pays to have their 3800 balance checked then they are wasting money. Nobody here is making ridiculous power.

I'm not saying you should take a totally stock engine in and have it balanced (although the factory balances have proven to be not perfect).

What I am saying is if you are swapping out reciprocating parts for aftermarket parts, or mixing-matching reciprocating parts between N/A and SC engines, you really need to have a full engine balance done. Not doing so is plain dumb if you are going to have the engine torn apart that far anyway. Having the engine properly balanced will add many miles of service life to it, not to mention the benefit of having it run smoother. What's wrong with that?

Also consider running 93 octane vs 87 into your pricing. I've been considering taking my sisters 3800 NA to work everyday now instead of my 3800SC. I have about a 35mi drive each way, and the gas is really getting expensive.

No matter how expensive gas gets, the "extra price" of running premium is fixed at xx dollars per fill (roughly $2 extra for a fiero fillup). When gas goes from 3 to 4 bucks a gallon, your price per tank will go up 10 bucks, but you are still only paying 2 bucks a fill for the "premium" part.

quote Originally posted by Tengis: "he L67 rods were conciderably stronger than the n/a rods. The powdered rods in the series 3 supercharged were stronger yet." The L67 and L36 rods are the same. The powdered metal rods are supposedly stronger but apparently more brittle. Nobody on this forum should ever make enough power to break either so it doesnt matter.

Then why did GM keep upgrading them? What's the magic hp # that breaks these rods if no one here makes enough?

quote Originally posted by 1fatcat: Then why did GM keep upgrading them? What's the magic hp # that breaks these rods if no one here makes enough?

My guess would be the long term reliability was the reason for the upgrade.