a week ago i was driving my '86 2M6, and it suddenly started stalling and lurching and shut off...well after i towed it home i found out that i had no spark.. at first the coil put spark to the distributor, but the distributor wouldnt put out spark to the plugs... i reset the computer and i suddenly had spark to the plugs......Now the car fires, starts, runs for 1 second and dies... ive checked all the connections to the distributor and coil and still no luck... and heres somthing else for luck.. i went and bought a code reader and plug it in and my check engine light has ceased to turn on!... does anyone have any suggestions? thanks

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"proud'862M6"

Welcome to Pennocks !

First check your fuses, Then your fusible links. No SES light either means the ECM is not getting power or bad, Or hopefully the light bulb in the dash is just burnt out.

Does it seem to die as soon as you lt go of the key after cranking, or does it run a bit after the key is released ?

Ya as soon as i let go of the key it dies .. but we had the throttle floored and it ran like crap for 10 seconds and sounded like a tractor...sometimes i turn the key and it runs for three seconds and then dies

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"proud'862M6"

I'd sure recheck those connectors on the coil and distributor. They are old and not clean. Bad connections can cause your exact problem. Been there done that.
Also pull the connector from the pickup coil to the module and read the coil between the leads and to ground.
Coil should read between 500-1500 ohms and infinite to ground.

so it runs a little after the key is released

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"proud'862M6"

I'd sure recheck those connectors on the coil and distributor. They are old and not clean. Bad connections can cause your exact problem. Been there done that.
Also pull the connector from the pickup coil to the module and read the coil between the leads and to ground.
Coil should read between 500-1500 ohms and infinite to ground.

the distributor and module is brand new ... i bought it last week

Same problem before the new parts ? First we need to figure out why there is no SES light before we can chase any other problems.

Sorry to say new does not mean good anymore. Still check the connectors again.
Was the module already installed, what brand? Is there grease under it?

ok which way should you take the dash apart to get to the bulb?

quote Originally posted by littleblackpontiac: ok which way should you take the dash apart to get to the bulb?

3 screws on top of the cluster, 2 down behind, and 1 on each bottom side from underneath.

Its a carquest distributor.. the module says GM ...so i would say its a reman distributor...and there is white grease under the module.

im so confused to what the problem could be

not necesarily, but its a good sign.

whats the good sign?

That its still trying to run is a good sign the ECM is working. It is pretty rare for them to actually go bad too. A lot get replaced when it wasnt needed.

Ya i really hope thats my case.. because i dont have the money for the ECM

Do you hear your fuel pump prime? If no fuel pump prime (it runs for 2 seconds after turning the key to on) and no SES light, your ECM is most likely not working.

That doesn't mean your ECM is dead.

Check this connector next to the battery. This connector is the reset connector for ECM. If it is apart your ECM won't work. Make sure you get +12v on the battery side of this connector.

so i checked that orange connecter switch.. it had 12.5 volts. and my fuel pump is being primed...today the car started and ran for about 6 seconds and the died..

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"proud'862M6"

If you get a 'prime', ie as soon as you turn the key to on, the fuel pump runs, then you know your ECM is working. You should also get the SES light when you turn the key to on, engine off. One more check is to just bump the starter and release as soon as the starter engages. Again the fuel pump should come on and run for two seconds.

If that is happening it tells you several things

1 - the fuel pump is at least running

2 - the ECM is running

3 - the ECM is receiving a signal from the ignition. - The ECM only injects fuel when the engine is rotating. The way the ECM knows the engine is rotating is it gets pulses from the ignition. Now that doesn't mean yoru getting a spark at the plugs, but at least it means you are getting the start of the ignition signal from the distributor.

You hear a prime, but no second prime when you bump the starter? Something is up with the generation of the ignition signal most likely. If the tach sits at zero at an extended crank, then that also points to no ignition signal.

You only hear the pump running again only after cranking the engine for a while? = The Oil Pressure Sender ALSO can turn on the fuel pump. So don't get confused if you hear the pump running and sometimes for an extended period if the oil is cold, after cranking it for a bit.

You turn the key off, and then back to on, but you don't hear the prime again right away? The computer won't prime the fuel rail again on just turning the key to on unless it's been off for at least 30 seconds. This only applies to turning the key to off and then back to on. You should always hear the fuel pump start up again when you bump the starter.

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My guess as to where to look? If it ran for a few seconds - and it is priming the fuel system at key on, engine off? Sounds like the ECM is actually fine. I don't think you would get that long of a run on just the cold start injector. Check your fuel pressure.

Buy a fuel pressure gauge for injected engines. Harbor Freight has it for $19.99. It has all the hoses to connect it up. On the 2.8 there is a spot to connect the gauge right on the fuel rail.

Key on, engine off - the system should pressurize during the two second prime to about 42psi. If the system is substationally less than that you have a problem.

Want to be cheap? Do the key on prime and then depress the schrader valve and see how high the fuel squirts. 40 psi is enough to easily hit the deck lid with the squirt of gas. Only enough of a squirt to make it to the top of the intake manifold? Yep that's not enough to run the engine/



See the black bicycle tire valve stem cap, located a bit straight above the tip of the yellow arrow? Thats the valve. Yours will have a metal cap that kinda doesn't look like it will screw off, but it will kinda easily. Under there is a bicycle valve stem type valve. Push it in the middle and it should squirt the gas.

Wear eye protection. Have a fire extingquisher handy. Have some rags handy to catch the squirt if needed.

Don't wait too long after the prime or your test might not be valid. The fuel rail should hold pressure for a fair amount after the prime, however many don't any more. That really doesn't matter much, just as long as it has pressure when the pump IS running.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 12-04-2010).]

Ok i will check the fuel pressure... ill tell ya, this has been a wild goose chase...i took my SES light bulb out and tested it.. its not burned out, it still works. does that mean anything? sorry to ask so many questions. This is my first Fiero, 2.8, fuel injected car. haha i totally miss working on my old '68 carburated ford 390..

but i love the Fiero so thats why im doing this =)

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"proud'862M6"

Turn the key to on and mess around with the holder a bit where it bayonets into the dash panel. Also try the two wire connectors to the dash. Watching for the light as you move them around just a bit should show you where the loose connection is.

so i did the test.. the fuel barely made it pass the intake after the prime....so what should i be lookin at to replace? fuel pump?

You are hearing the fuel pump run right?

Take a vice grips and squeeze the return line rubber hose (the return line hose is the smaller of the two) and see if that makes the pressure go up. If that DOES make the pressure right then the trouble is actually the fuel pressure regulator.

Check the voltage on Pin G of the ALDL. Make sure you have at least 11v there during prime. If not, your fuel pump isn't getting the proper voltage to run.

Replace the fuel filter.

If none of those fix it, then you for sure have a bad fuel pump and will have to drop the tank.

Ok ...man i sure hope i dont have to replace the fuel pump.. because that tank is full!

Ya i can hear the fuel pump run for sure..and when i depressed the schrater valve it went a inch above the intake..then i primed it again and it just flowed over the valve

Sounds like your getting close. The fuel pressure was going to be my next idea.
It still sounds like your have a fuel issue though. Possible your tank is full of rust and maybe the new filter is slugged already, your pump is bad or you have a split hose or pulsator in the tank. You need a constant 40+ on the fuel pressure to keep the engine running.

so i tested my fuel pressure and i have a solid 42psi the car will start to run for 15-20 seconds and the die...but the fuel pressure never dies..which is naturally telling me that its not the fuel system... any suggestions...?

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"proud'862M6"

Have you checked all your fuses ? sounds almost like the injectors are not firing, there should be 2 fuses for them though and I doubt both are bad. You might check if power is getting to the injector fuses, might me a fusible link feeding them.

quote Originally posted by littleblackpontiac: so i tested my fuel pressure and i have a solid 42psi the car will start to run for 15-20 seconds and the die...but the fuel pressure never dies..which is naturally telling me that its not the fuel system... any suggestions...?

Well it's saying the problem isn't the fuel supply system to the injectors. It still could be caused by the injectors not injecting. But yes you have eliminated a number of components

yes i can hear the fuel pump prime and prime after the engine dies.. i just got done reading codes its only flashing code 12 over and over again and then i turned the engine on and it ran good with the code reader in but it just randomly flashed...i didnt flash any code

Was it flashing cause you still had the jumper in A-B?

The fuel pump will run after the engine shuts off for two reasons.

1 - The ECM is programmed to keep the fuel pump on for 2 seconds after it gets the last ignition pulse
2 - As long as the oil pressure switch senses some oil pressure it will manually have the fuel pump on. If you start the engine and then shut it off right away it will run for a while because of this

ya it flashed because i was still in the A and B pins

The idea of doing the bump but not starting it is to see if the ECM is getting the pulses. Since the engine ran we know the ECM is getting the pulses. Hearing the pump run after the engine has ran could be by either the ECM or the Oil Pressure Switch.

Doesn't matter anyways, the engine would not have ran without the ECM getting the pulses.

So does this mean it's fixed? What happens when you pull the A-B jumper? Does the engine stay running?

no its not fixed... and come to think of it the fuel pump does not come on after the bump of the starter ..and it seemed like it died after we pulled the pin

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"proud'862M6"