I have a 88 fiero. the interior harness of the car was damaged. I have gotten another harness from a car that was automatic. I have a 5 speed. I have already moved the pin to the correct location for the starter. From A4 to E2. The problem i am having is that i have to step on the clutch for the the car to start. The clutch has two sensors that need to be plugged in. But because the auto harness does not come with the sensors. how do I start the car. If i need to buy the sensors that's fine but do they go back to the c500 connector and if they do what is the pin out.

The wire harness for the automatic has a big yellow wire that runs from the ignition switch (pin S) to C500 A4, then to the tranny-mounted gear selector switch (pin F). When the gear selector switch is moved to Park, the switch connects pin F to pin G ( a large purple wire) which goes directly to the starter solenoid.

So then, if you want to make you car start without having to buy a gear selector switch, all you have to do is swap the yellow wire to C500 pin E2 as you've already done and find the connector for the automatic transmission gear selector switch (near the tranny). Then jumper pin F (Yellow) to pin G (Purple) on the connector using a wire that is the same gauge as either of these two. This will complete the circuit. Alternatively, you can simply cut these two wires from the transmission connector and solder them together. The only thing that this doesn't do, is provide you with a neutral safety switch since the gear selector switch on the automatic tranny performs this function. It also means that if you reach into your car and try to start it and the shift stick is in anything but neutral, tthe car will jump forward (or rearward) as the engine cranks.

To restore the park neutral safety function the same way it was with your manual transmission wire harness, you'll have to find the big yellow wire that drops down from the ignition switch (pin S), cut it, and splice each end of the wire to the pins on your clutch pedal switch. Again, there probably won't be enough slack to do this without using an extension on the yellow wire, so be sure to use a large gauge wire for this to avoid overheating the wire when cranking.

[This message has been edited by Bloozberry (edited 08-17-2010).]

Well actually if you only replace the front interior harness you won't need to modify the engine harness since it is still for a manual tranny.

The interior harness will need to be modified so the heavy yellow wire from the ignition switch then runs down to the neutral safety switch. The other end of the neutral safety switch will then be connected to the harness. Make sure you use wire that is as heavy as the yellow wire is. (You can cut it out of the old harness) Easiest would be to do this when the harness is out of the car.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 08-17-2010).]

Ok

[This message has been edited by mike730 (edited 08-17-2010).]

My mistake... I thought you had to replace the engine bay harness as well. Since you're only replacing the harness inside the car, then the only change you should have had to make is moving the C500 pin, and splicing the clutch switch back in but only if you want a neutral safety switch.

When I stated earlier to jumper pins F and G, I was referring to the gear selector switch on the auto tranny harness NOT C203. Once again, you won't have the gear selector connector on your engine harness since you didn't change out the engine bay harness to the one from the automatic.

Since it's not working after swapping the C500 pins, then you'll have to test for 12V at the solenoid terminal on the starter (purple wire) while someone holds the key in the START position. Use a test light or a multimeter set to volts and connect one meter lead to the solenoid terminal and the other to a good ground like some shiney metal nearby. If you get 12V, then the starter is malfunctioning.

If you don't get 12V, then the next step is to take apart C500 and measure for 12V on pin E2 on the chassis half of the connector (not the engine half) while someone holds the key in START. If you get 12V, then there's a problem with the purple wire between the solenoid and C500.

If you don't get 12V, then either your ignition switch is worn and isn't making the right contacts inside the switch when it's turned to START, or the yellow wire between the ignition switch and C500 is broken, or the fusible link at the battery junction block is corroded or blown.

Post what you find and that'll narrow down the scope of what to do next.

All wires and grounds are new. Because I have a auto harness there were no connectors for the clutch. THERE ARE TWO CONNECTORS THERE. Does the clutch need to be depressed in order to start car as well.

With the auto harness there is no clutch switch so when you turn the key to start the engine should crank no matter if you have the clutch pedal pushed or not.

ok thats where I need help at its not cranking all i hear is click and fuel pump. Just a little history when i had the old harness i got nothing. I put this in and I got results. Now im stuck on what to do.

So you need to use that light or a meter to read if you are getting voltage out to the starter on the control wire. You might have a wiring issue or some other issue.

ok so to be straight i can take a light and place it on the control wire and then other end to the ground if it comes on then there is a signal

If the click is truely coming from the starter then yes the wiring must be good. I am questioning if the click is truely coming from the starter so if you could do the test it will say if the wiring is ok or not.

If you get a bright light (+12) at the starter control wire when you turn the key then the problem isn't with the wiring but instead something internal to the starter/solonoid.

That is btw assuming you also get a bright light (+12) at the large terminal of the starter. Check to make sure the voltage actually appears on the bolt itself, not just the wire connector that runs to the starter.

yes I have done this test and the light is bright. I have tested it at the bolt

So if you have +12 at the large bolt, and +12 is sent to the small bolt when you turn the key to start, then the problem is with either the starter or the solonoid.

Test on the other large bolt of the solonoid when the key is turned to start. If +12 isn't being sent to the other side of the solonoid then the solonoid is not connecting the two and is the part that is bad.

You can also test the starter out of the car to double check your results, assuming the starter is what is testing bad.

quote Originally posted by mike730: i thought that i was getting a signal because the starter wouldnt click when i turned the key.

quote Originally posted by mike730: its not cranking all i hear is click and fuel pump.

You keep contradicting yourself. In this thread you've said that you do, and don't get a clicking sound from the starter, and in your other thread you've said you do get a clicking sound from the starter... so which is it? It matters.

When +12 is connected to the solonoid control, the solonoid electric magnet will push the pinion gear out to engage the flywheel, and once the gear is all the way out the end of the solonoid pushes a switch that connects the large terminal from the battery to the large terminal that leads into the starter. There would be a possibility that somehow the pinion of the starter is mechanically hitting something (ie flywheel) that is keeping it from extending all the way out. This would be perhaps if the starter isn't the correct starter for the application.

Phonedawgs, let him answer one question at a time. All he needs to post at this time is whether the starter is or isn't clicking when he turns the key. Posting a thousand posts in two threads at a time isn't helping.

[This message has been edited by Bloozberry (edited 08-17-2010).]

thats a great point the starter I have on my engine if for the fiero. I have a starter in my garage for the 3.8 in my engine. The 3.8 strater is smaller than the fiero starter. the 3.8 starter is smaller and a little longer than the fiero starter. im going to change it out. you think that may be the problem. Below are two links one for the fiero and second for 3.8.

http://www.rockauto.com/cat...einfo.php?pk=1292751

http://www.rockauto.com/cat...reinfo.php?pk=513193

You must use the starter for the specific engine it was made for since there are many factors that can change between starters... the number of teeth, the distance the starter moves out to engage the flywheel, the location that the starter is installed on the engine, etc. All these things affect the alignment and proper engagement of the starter pinion with the ring gear on the flywheel. If you're running a 3.8 and using a 2.8 starter, then I think you just found the root of your problem.

I don't know that is what is happening, I am just saying that IF you get so the starter is getting the signal voltage but isn't turning that MIGHT be what is happening. Checking the voltage on the other side of the solonoid is a start to trying to figure out why the starter isn't turning.

You should check the starter out of the car if you have come to the conclusion that the starter is getting signal.

The starter will "jump" when it starts from all the torque so clamp it down in a vice before you test it. You can use jumper cables from a battery to send voltage to the starter. Make sure you don't short the jumper cables while you do this or you can start a fire or blow up your battery.

Bloozberry what i saying in the other post was the same in this post when i had my old harness in the car the car didn't do anything. When i changed my harness and got a auto interior harness the fuel pump came on and starter was clicking. of course i changed pin outs. Thanks guys for all your assistance

Looks like you have the trouble on the run - Cool cool

I'd like to say thanks to Blooze also. He is VERY knowledgeable on everything Fiero.

ok i found a thread and i dont think the problem is the starter size. i found a thread. This guy was using a fiero starter for his 3.4 engine and switched to a 3.8 starter.


https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/108710.html

Yeah I was thinking they were the same size but idk. I thought there was a thread where ppl were using 3.8 starters on 2.8's. Again testing the starter out of the engine would give a lot of light to this situation.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 08-17-2010).]

So what to do now

Pull the starter and test it on the bench.

Test your spare starter on the bench also

ok guys i have switch starters and same thing

You switched starters in 9 minuites?

I tried that. They click when in the car. They sounds as if they trying to do the job

So they work on the bench but when mounted in the car they don't turn the engine. Is something keeping them from turning the engine over? Can you turn the engine over with a wrench at the crankshaft pulley bolt?

Is the battery so dead the starter can't turn the engine?

Is there a possibility that the battery cables are bad so they don't allow enough power through to turn the engine?

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 08-17-2010).]

THE BATTERY IS BRAND NEW SO ARE THE CABLES.