I know these questions pop up a lot but I am having trouble actually finding answers.

That said, the vehicle I'm thinking of has an L67 but I also want some generic info here. I'm completely in the dark when it comes to knowing anything about different muffler types, brands, and sounds. However, in addition to generic info I had a couple specific questions as well.

1) I like deeper throatier sounding exhaust so what muffler types would help to give this. A V6 is obviously only going to go so far but I would like to get what I can. I have heard Magnaflow tend to be deeper than most. Is this true?

2) I also want a little lope in the exhaust if possible (yes I know it's a V6 but I can try right?). Are there muffler types that "smooth" the sound out more than others or is this not even something I have any control over?

3) Is there a general relationship between volume and muffler size?

4) How to exhaust tips play into this? Do resonating tips change the sound that much? If so, what kind of changes?

Thanks in advance!

I just went youtubing until i found a sound i like.

My car http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bdjX5BDAXE

Just i spintech muffler. I need to get some more video without the music.

I've done some video searching but I have a hard time trusting a recorded sound. It's a good place to start but I'm just trying to get a better hold on what my options are even if I do find a sound I like.

From what Ive read,there is a maximum mufflers size and most likley you would want volume.
You might consider the:
Flowmaster42583 15 inch case 21 inches overall (includeing the inlett and outlet).Single 2.5 duel 2.5

Flowmaster43083 15 inch case 21 inches overall (includeing the inlett and outlet).Single 3.0 duel 2.5
The refrece to single, is the inlet and duel is the outlets.Depents on your exhaust diameter (inlet outlet).

Just so you know, a 3.0" inlet 2.5" outlet system may be a little loud for extended interstate/highway sessions. 2.5/2.25" is a little smaller but noise-wise it will fit a daily driver better.

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On my 3800 SC I went with the dynomax turbo for the camaro, 2.5 in and 2.5 out. Sounds good, deep mellow tone but a little loud in the cab at 2K rpm. My son used the stock walker camaro muffler on his 3800 SC and it has a good mellow tone but a LOT less noise in the cabin.

If I had it to do over again, I'd use the stock camaro muffler.....

Just my 2 cents..

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85 Notch back Black w/ Silver pearl
3800 SC

quote Originally posted by James Bond 007: From what Ive read,there is a maximum mufflers size and most likley you would want volume. You might consider the: Flowmaster42583 15 inch case 21 inches overall (includeing the inlett and outlet).Single 2.5 duel 2.5 Flowmaster43083 15 inch case 21 inches overall (includeing the inlett and outlet).Single 3.0 duel 2.5 The refrece to single, is the inlet and duel is the outlets.Depents on your exhaust diameter (inlet outlet).

This is what I use...

the 42583 is for the stock to lightly mod'ed 3800SC
The 43083 is for the all out performance build and it is loud.

I have many pictures on my project page of these mufflers, and there are about 3 sound files also.. I will link later.. still working today.

http://www.fastfieros.com/projects

quote Originally posted by JamesCurtis: Just so you know, a 3.0" inlet 2.5" outlet system may be a little loud for extended interstate/highway sessions. 2.5/2.25" is a little smaller but noise-wise it will fit a daily driver better.

Sounds good but would 2.5'' be a little restrictive for a 3800 with say 1.9 rockers and a 3.4 pulley? (I'm assuming that's 2.5" from the manifold to the muffler)

You'll have to let the big boys answer that . I would imagine a 3.0" inlet would create less backpressure and more horsepower. It all depends on the type of driving you do and if you want to give up a pleasant non-earbleeding cross country trip for a few ponies.

Here's another thread where we just recently discussed this -
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/101907.html

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[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 08-06-2009).]

quote Originally posted by FastFieros: This is what I use... the 42583 is for the stock to lightly mod'ed 3800SC The 43083 is for the all out performance build and it is loud. I have many pictures on my project page of these mufflers, and there are about 3 sound files also.. I will link later.. still working today. http://www.fastfieros.com/projects

Thanks to everybody for the replies so far.

FastFieros: Thanks for the relative information. What do you consider lightly modded and what do you consider loud? Would the 43083 be overkill for a lightly modded daily driver?

I am using the 42583 Flowmaster (probably because Loyde recommended it all those years ago) I have been happy with it. It can be a little loud when you get on it, but its a good mellow sound normally. I did modify the cradle slightly to get it to fit in there straight, just had to make the "indent" a little longer.

It seems like the Flowmaster is pretty popular but how what's the sound quality like? I can understand a "mellow" idle but when you give it some gas is it raspy or more rumbly? (to use technical terms )

lobe sound usually comes from the cam.....

The mufflers that I know of are:

Spintech - direct fit I believe and is supposed to be the highest flow like Borla
Flowmaster - baffled and restricted but others have a different opinon
Ocelot - stock replacement

Magnaflow doesn't have 1 in the size that we need. It would be nice if they did because it's a true straight through design.. and I think the flowmmaster has to be cut down too.

Warlock is another that might work but the original concept of the warlock with the block-off plate would be different... basically flow would enter in the exit. heard it rusts


all have somewhat of a throaty sound to them. Can't make a V6 sound like a V8 though... Although mine sounds like one.... 3.4L P/R with a blown muffler with a hole the size of my fist and some.... I re-welded a plate over the hole for a temp fix but since Borla doesn't make one for us anymore, I'm going to do a spintech "stainless"


I've been debating the resonating tips.... I like the European sound more Farrari, lambo, etc..... I''m afraid of my Fiero sounding like a whimpy V6 Camaro with a 3.4... I HATE THAT SOUND, ESPECIALLY THE AUTOMATICS. I was thinking that a dual 3" to 3.5" w/ resonating tip would sound good... and different. When I get the chance and do this muffler thing, I'm going to have him put regular tips on for sound and then swap to the resonating for the difference.

[This message has been edited by unboundmo (edited 08-06-2009).]

I would say more "rumbly" I guess, as "rumbly" as a 6cyl is gonna get anyways

quote Originally posted by unboundmo: lobe sound usually comes from the cam.....

I had thought the same thing. I was curious though if there was a way to accentuate what was already there.

quote Originally posted by unboundmo: The mufflers that I know of are: Spintech - direct fit I believe and is supposed to be the highest flow like Borla Flowmaster - baffled and restricted but others have a different opinon Ocelot - stock replacement Magnaflow doesn't have 1 in the size that we need. It would be nice if they did because it's a true straight through design.. and I think the flowmmaster has to be cut down too. Warlock is another that might work but the original concept of the warlock with the block-off plate would be different... basically flow would enter in the exit. heard it rusts

Thanks for the breakdown. I thought I recall reading that there was a Magnaflow that fit but perhaps I'm mistaken. Why is it that they don't fit? Or...by don't fit you mean the trunk must be cut?

[This message has been edited by GraterFang (edited 08-06-2009).]

quote I've been debating the resonating tips.... I like the European sound more Farrari, lambo, etc

European sound and ferrari don't belong in a 3800 exhaust thread, just saying .

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So I take it resonating tips mostly just give that euro sound?

They basically make any engine sound like a ferarri v12, just ask over at the honda forums . Now, back on track! I was hoping that resonators would eliminate some of the rasp you get out of the v6, but I don't have enough experience with them to know if they will do that or if it's just a fancy name.

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Any ideas about when a 2.5" inlet becomes restrictive for a 3800SC?

the "don't fit" usually is to where the case body is too long. It always seems like the height and thickness is in the area where it will fit but the length gets in the way of the frame.... I thought.

If you find the Magnaflow, let me know!

I don't want to characterize the resonating tips being European. They somewhat quiet the sound with a mellow raspy noise.

I just don't like the sound of a stock Camaro with a 3.4 or 3.8L... They sound great at idle but once you punch it.... you know it's a whimmmp 6 cylinder. usually the folks that have these cars have a 3" pipe out the back or they do what we have. Again, it's a nice hallow sound at idle but it sounds like crap under load. "My opinion"


oh... lambos belong in all threads




here's a link I did somewhat back and it has a lot of the exhaust sounds you're looking for

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/076217.html

[This message has been edited by unboundmo (edited 08-06-2009).]

quote Originally posted by unboundmo: here's the embarrassing sound that I / you / or anyone that I know doesn't want

Blegh! No kidding!

Sounds horrible above idle, almost like a toy or something.

thanks for the part #... I'm going to remeasure mine

I been useing the Magnaflow on my V8s Chevy.. I think they are deeper throatier sounding I use to like the flows. But feel they belong on a musrat not days.
I not tryed Magnaflow on a 6.

I have flows on my corvair. 3.1 Big boy, Otto 30 cam Alot of head work and custom Header and pipe works.
Sorry I know links not 3800SC But just as far as you from can get from a 3800SC A old air cooled engine Just 225HP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9Cf26hOHQQ

[This message has been edited by billpapps (edited 08-06-2009).]

one thing on the flowmasters you have to decide what series your going with and if it delta flow or not. I had a flowmaster 40 series on my cav loved it. Cant get a sound clip though it faild. most people would think it to loud.

quote Originally posted by Tstang429: one thing on the flowmasters you have to decide what series your going with and if it delta flow or not. I had a flowmaster 40 series on my cav loved it. Cant get a sound clip though it faild. most people would think it to loud.

I honestly don't know anything about the different series and delta flow, is there an easy breakdown?

EDIT: Some easy research provided answers on the different series here (sorry for the numerous questions )

[This message has been edited by GraterFang (edited 08-07-2009).]

quote Originally posted by GraterFang: I know these questions pop up a lot but I am having trouble actually finding answers. That said, the vehicle I'm thinking of has an L67 but I also want some generic info here. I'm completely in the dark when it comes to knowing anything about different muffler types, brands, and sounds. However, in addition to generic info I had a couple specific questions as well. 1) I like deeper throatier sounding exhaust so what muffler types would help to give this. A V6 is obviously only going to go so far but I would like to get what I can. I have heard Magnaflow tend to be deeper than most. Is this true? 2) I also want a little lope in the exhaust if possible (yes I know it's a V6 but I can try right?). Are there muffler types that "smooth" the sound out more than others or is this not even something I have any control over? 3) Is there a general relationship between volume and muffler size? 4) How to exhaust tips play into this? Do resonating tips change the sound that much? If so, what kind of changes? Thanks in advance!

2.5 inch exhaust on a 3800 is too small even for a stock one IMO.

Big mufflers mean quieter / less drone. Resonated tips = less drone, same volume.

Mufflers come in 2 basic designs, chamber, and straight through. A magnaflow is going to be a striaght through, with a bunch of insulation making it fairly quiet and low drone, but VERY loud at wide open. A chamber muffler will limit maximum noise, but it will be quite loud at idle.

quote I also want a little lope in the exhaust if possible

That is going to depend on a large amount of things... any performance muffler will transmit the noise of the motor at idle, but you will need to have a cam that provides the noise (there are plenty of cams that sound cool). The only type of "cool" sound you can get out of this motor is going to be at idle, so that is why I typically use a chamber muffler on my car, and it helps quiet the horrid noise that a 3800 makes at wide open. On my customer / friends cars I have only used the FULL BODY magnaflows due to the power and anti drone characteristics.

I unfortunately have never made a exhaust that retained the trunk... you just can not get a muffler large enough in that space with 3 inch pipe and reasonable bends.

Thanks for the info
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More ?'s -->

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: 2.5 inch exhaust on a 3800 is too small even for a stock one IMO.

Do you find that 3" volume levels are acceptable for a daily driver? I like loud but I still want to be able to hear after a few drives. Would a chamber style muffler help with highway/freeway driving over the straight through design?

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Big mufflers mean quieter / less drone. Resonated tips = less drone, same volume.

Is there a range or size you would recommend?

Ever use resonated tips on a 3800SC and did you like the result?

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Mufflers come in 2 basic designs, chamber, and straight through. A magnaflow is going to be a striaght through, with a bunch of insulation making it fairly quiet and low drone, but VERY loud at wide open. A chamber muffler will limit maximum noise, but it will be quite loud at idle. That is going to depend on a large amount of things... any performance muffler will transmit the noise of the motor at idle, but you will need to have a cam that provides the noise (there are plenty of cams that sound cool). The only type of "cool" sound you can get out of this motor is going to be at idle, so that is why I typically use a chamber muffler on my car, and it helps quiet the horrid noise that a 3800 makes at wide open. On my customer / friends cars I have only used the FULL BODY magnaflows due to the power and anti drone characteristics.

Do the straight through mufflers have better flow? Is it even significant when using 3" exhaust or does it hardly matter?

Are all magnaflows straight through type mufflers? Having used the "full body" magnaflows did you like the results?

Do chamber mufflers actually limit max noise by much?

Is there a brand of chamber muffler that gives off a deeper sound or compliments the 3800SC well?

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I unfortunately have never made a exhaust that retained the trunk... you just can not get a muffler large enough in that space with 3 inch pipe and reasonable bends.

I know you have probably posted this before but I'll ask anyways. How much trunk do you usually cut out? Approx 1/2 of the "well" or does it vary for you depending upon the install?

EDIT: Added a question

[This message has been edited by GraterFang (edited 08-07-2009).]

Keep in mind that a bigger pipe doesn't mean better flow... exhaust gases compressed are faster through the tube than non. After the cat, I would feel that 2.5" is a good size for most V6s. but I would have 1 5/8" primaries with a 2" Y section followed into a 2.5" dump for a 3.4 to 3.8L

One thing you have to remember about sound.... it is highly subjective to opinion.

the V6 3800 is 90 degree engine. This in itself is a difference in sound.. it is a firing order that is related to the sound of the exhaust. Those are things you cannot change without spending alot of money.

the mufflers I have tried are

Ocelot, Borla, SpinTech, Flowmaster, and OEM stock 2.8...

subjective opinion from me is the Flowmaster was the best.. however, changing the size of the tubes would have changed all the variables from one product to the next, and I dont have enough time and money to try all those combinations.

Flowmaster 40 is better in flow, and LOUDer than Flowmaster 80 series. However, the 80 is by far the popular in used product line for street strip.

I have installed with cutting the trunk, and not cutting the trunk.

I have installed with 3 inch from port outlet to the muffler, nice bends, did not cut trunk. It takes alot of money to get the right pieces. tighter smooth made parts require dyes that do not last long and the price reflects it. Donuts in 3 inch x 6 inch radius are over a 100 each while 2.5 are only $80.. U bends are the same high price in 3 tight turn. Guy in Canada had the smoking prices back in 06 and he went out of business he didnt charge enough. Guy in NY does some special orders for me, but charges quite high for that special order.

Cut trunk, spintech muffler



NOT cutting trunk - fllowmaster 80




more to see at http://www.fastfieros.com/projects

quote Originally posted by unboundmo: Keep in mind that a bigger pipe doesn't mean better flow... exhaust gases compressed are faster through the tube than non. After the cat, I would feel that 2.5" is a good size for most V6s. but I would have 1 5/8" primaries with a 2" Y section followed into a 2.5" dump for a 3.4 to 3.8L

True, compressed gases will flow faster but a bigger pipe will still allow for an overall equal or larger volume of flow, correct? As far as "breathing" is concerned a larger pipe will always have more potential. I may be wrong but that's how I understand it.

However, I would agree that compressed gases are still better as they allow for backpressure which keeps air from rushing into the exhaust. In the end this is why too much pipe will start having negative results or so I understand.

Nothing sounds better than a glasspack even if it is a 2 inlet into one,dual outlet ,or dual glasspack if you do not have inspection,,or you can get by with a cherry bomb,, the idle is OK nothing special but when you run thru the gears with VIGOR,,glasspacks by a land slide,, they are cheap widely available and you can idle beside a police car yet the sound is neato jet under power ..
liked it on a V 8,, liked it on the duke,, like it on the V6 ..

never tried one on a 3.8
there are many different makes cherry bomb and thrush being the cheapest

Alright, I've been watching what sounds clip I can find. I can't find many for magnaflow but the flowmaster 40 series does sound really nice. Does anybody have the 40 series with delta flow on a 3800SC? So far I'm leaning towards this but I was curious who has already tried it and if they like it or not

One thing I don't like in an exhaust sound is when it sounds like the car is running inside of a culvert, just too much echo in the sound. I would assume that the diameter of the tube is too large for the volume of gas flowing through it. While they generally sound pretty good Mustang's tend to suffer from this.

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RickN
White 88GT 5spd
White 85GT Auto
White 99 F250SD 7.3PSD 6spd
1956 Ford 860 Tractor w/ Freeman Loader
20Ft Tilt Bed Trailer

Im in the market for a muffler too. I have a Flowmaster 80 series on my 3.4 DOHC. Its way too loud in my opinion. With my 3800SC swap, I want it quiet. But, also retain the trunk and factory tips. So I need a smaller crossflow muffler that is quiet. there aren't a lot of answers to this problem.

here is my exhaust setup, i used a flotech afterburner and did not cut the trunk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVORSX0fzsk