Well after much assistance from you guys, and jumping this here and there. Heres what I know.

FP runs on ALDL jump.
FP jump at relay runs FP.
Relays switched and good.
Jump at ECM into A1 socket with 12v, no go.

Therefore I have descided to just run a 12v line to the ALDL off a requlated 12v line from the ignition. Therefore it will only run when engaged similar to the way it should.

I know it is jury rigged but I dont see any complications unless I am missing something.

Matt

Well then the fuel pump would run anytime the ignition is on. Has some minor drawbacks. Best thing to do would be to re-run the wire. Wouldnt take long and it would be fixed right.

I agree strongly!

quote Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC: Well then the fuel pump would run anytime the ignition is on. Has some minor drawbacks. Best thing to do would be to re-run the wire. Wouldnt take long and it would be fixed right.

Do you have an isometric? Its gotta be simple for a Structural Engineer to understand.

Thanks

Matt

What they are saying is splice a wire to the A1 pin wire at the ecm connector and run it upto the FP relay and connect to the Grn/Wht wire there.
This would bypass the original wire if it is bad.

You might still have a bad FP relay socket so that may or may not work.

Do you have a voltmeter? I would shave a little insulation on the Grn/Wht wire under the FP socket and check from there to ground with a volt meter. Turn the key on (there should be power for 2 seconds) or jumper the ALDL to keep the engine running and see if you get +12 on the wire under the socket. If you do then your wire is good and the socket is bad.

Or you could Ohm from the wire under the socket to the connection in the socket and see if you have continuity.

Have you pulled on the Grn\wht wire under the socket to see if it is tight?

For safety reaons like I said before you really don't want the pump uncontrolled in an accident.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 01-03-2007).]

Don't wire the fuel pump to the ignition, it's unsafe. The reason is that if you get in a wreck the fuel pump will still keep the fuel lines pressurized even though the motor is off, unless you're uninjured and conscious enough to be able to turn off the ignition yourself. The result could be the pump running and dumping a tankfull of gasoline out on the ground around your wrecked car. Bad, bad, bad.

Probe the fuel pump relay wire at the ECM with the trouble light to see if it comes on for two seconds when turning the key to RUN, if it does then the ECM is good, otherwise the ECM is bad and needs replacement. Although, I suspect that if you replace your oil pressure switch you'll get the automatic fuel pump function you need.

Best bet, figure out where the wiring problem is.

James

mmesko, buddy, your hearing this from all of us don't do it fix it right.

We want to keep all the Fiero owner around...

I truely appreciate all of your help. I shall yet again try the testing outlined above.

To make sure I have it right. The 24 pin plug is next to the 32 pin plug at the bottom of the ECM. I remove both plugs and hot wire from my 12v cig to my A1 socket on the 24 pin plug. It is very small correct? I had extreme difficulties wedging a wire in last weekend.

Again thanks owners.

Matt

Tool? You don't open up the ecm. There are just two cables that plug into the bottom of the ecm box these are what your looking at right?

You just have to figure out which is the A1 connection on the plug. Should not be that small.

I can take a picture of mine when I get home tonight if that would help.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 01-05-2007).]

Matt, Just make sure to dis-connect the battery when plugging and unplugging wires and connectors into the ecm==no juice. After you remove the 2 connectors dodgerunner is talking about --take a flashlight and look inside the ecm, you`ll see the #`s and letters, try to hold the connectors as close to them --as if when they came out/off and match up the wires with the #`s and letters inside the openings of your ecm. or hopefully someone will chime in with the color of the wire/wires you`ll need to check. A-1 should be top row- left , if your holding the ecm out in front of you . Double check though when looking in-side..

quote Originally posted by Dodgerunner: Tool? You don't open up the ecm. There are just two cables that plug into the bottom of the ecm box these are what your looking at right? You just have to figure out which is the A1 connection on the plug. Should not be that small. I can take a picture of mine when I get home tonight if that would help.

Thanks runner, both you and 3800 are a big help for this simple mind.

Matt

I sure hope you where not pulling the chip out of the ecm and touching +12 to the chip socket. That would be a very bad thing to do.

quote Originally posted by Dodgerunner: I sure hope you where not pulling the chip out of the ecm and touching +12 to the chip socket. That would be a very bad thing to do.

Nope, I may be dim but not stupid. So I disconected the Battery. Ran a jump from grn/white at ECM to grn/white at relay. Connected the battery and engaged. No fuel pump charging. I switched the AC and FP relays to eliminate the relay issue, unless they both could be bad. Is the headlamp relay also suitable? So I think it is my ECM. Must I replace the entire ECM unit with PROM?

Again thanks guys

Matt

The Grn/wht wire at the relay is the +12 that should come from the ecm. (the fp relay is one of the few outputs from teh ecm that provides power not a ground)

You don't want to ground it you would want to go to +12.

Did you try touching +12 on the Grn/wht of the ecm plug to see if the FP relay engaged, or just bypassed it. (can't remember for sure. )

If you need the ecm you could either get an ecm and put your prom in it, but would be easier to just get one for and same engine/transmission and put it in.

Hey, welcome to the forum local...... I work in West Chester. Live in oxford.

Andrew

Matt, Heres a couple links --one to complete ecm other to just the prom, like dodgerunner said , probally easier to grab one in the mall section or ebay == 15.00-25.00 bucks ==tops.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,12491...
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,12491...
Ohh the A-1 is on the very top right ..lol.. if the ecm is held right side up..

So here is where I am at. I ran the jump from my ECM to my relay. No power.

I jumped across my relay sockets and the FP engaged.

So I think it is at my relay, but I swaped out the relays and no use. Unless both relays are bad. Can I swap a headlamp relay with my FP relay?
I dont think it is the relay socket. If it was the jump at the relay wouldnt work.

Also I am going to run a test lamp at my ECM gr/w to cig ground and power up the car. If I get a light then it is at the relay.

Thanks guys

Matt

Matt, Does your a/c work ok? If not its probally that relay is bad also. The headlamp relays look kinda the same ----but they won`t work for the f/p or a/c relays.

Did you happen to read this thread..

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/079293.html

I still think your relay socket might be your problem also. If the spade for the relay coil is not making a connection it would make you think your ecm was not working.

You bypassed the ecm wire to the relay so you must have exposed the A1 wire to do that. Did you check on that wire with a volt meter to ground when you turn the key on? You should see +12 on the wire for 2 seconds when the key is turned on.
If you do then it has to be the socket.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 01-06-2007).]

quote Originally posted by 3800superfast: Matt, Does your a/c work ok? If not its probally that relay is bad also. The headlamp relays look kinda the same ----but they won`t work for the f/p or a/c relays.

Difficult to tell if the AC works when its cold. Just finished some jumping and I am really confused which doesnt take much.

Here it is.

Disconnected battery, installed jump from grn/wh from ecm to ground. Turned key no light.
Removed jumps ran +12 to grn/wh, no pump.
Jumped across relay to ground, pump on.
I also ran a jump from interior grn/wt to relay grn/wht, no pump.

So It appears that the ECM is bad whereas no light to ground.

Any ideas?

Thanks Matt

Just want to verify when you say this.

"Disconnected battery, installed jump from grn/wh from ecm to ground. Turned key no light."

You mean your checking with a test light from the ecm grn/wht to ground right? When someone say jumped it make me think they are jumping with a wire which would not be good. Just want to make sure we are talking the same language.

quote Originally posted by Dodgerunner: Just want to verify when you say this. "Disconnected battery, installed jump from grn/wh from ecm to ground. Turned key no light." You mean your checking with a test light from the ecm grn/wht to ground right? When someone say jumped it make me think they are jumping with a wire which would not be good. Just want to make sure we are talking the same language.

Pardon my lack of nomenclature. What I did was splice a wire from the grn/wt at ECM connect the other end to test lamp clamp, then the other end of the test lamp to cig ground. My cig ground is sound works like a champ.

So as I stated I am going to use my circuit tester next. Grn/wt at ECM, wire splice to circuit tester then to ground.

Matt

Just be sure you never let the wire you spiced onto the A1 touch ground while powered up. That would probably "pop" the output driver transisitor and the ecm would be bad.

quote Originally posted by Dodgerunner: Just be sure you never let the wire you spiced onto the A1 touch ground while powered up. That would probably "pop" the output driver transisitor and the ecm would be bad.

Exactly, when I did test +12 from ECM to relay I disconnected the plugs. Oh well off to circuit test next.

Matt

quote Originally posted by mmesko: God I designed subdivisions that were easier than this. Matt

LMAO I love it.....Keep at it your doing great--kinda feels like someones walking you through heart surgery over the phone huh??

quote Originally posted by 3800superfast: LMAO I love it.....Keep at it your doing great--kinda feels like someones walking you through heart surgery over the phone huh??

Thanks for your kind words of support. Although I feel foolish.

Well he it is. Just ran my volt tester across my A1 to ground. Turned key and got 2 12V spikes. So its sounding like its outside of the ECM.

Any other ideas doctor?

Matt

It has to be the wire or relay socket.
1. Next pull the plugs back off the ecm.
2. Apply +12 to the A1 wire so it is hot.
3. Take your test light and probe the relay socket and see if you can find the +12 on the grn/wht wire there.
4. If not you still have a bad wire, if you do then either the socket is bad for the grn/wht wire or the ground side of the socket is bad.
5.You can hook your test light to the +12 on the battey and test the ground side of the socket to see if you get a light. That should be the black wire on the socket.


It's going to be nice here also, I need to get out and rebuild a door hinge, modify my clutch pushrod, and get some belt brackets made to sell.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 01-06-2007).]

quote Originally posted by mmesko: Any other ideas doctor? Matt

Hell I`m with dodgerunner on this one --he has an E.E. That and its the only thing left that can be wrong.

Really runner you have an EE?

Matt

Yep, you did try the a/c relay--so that woud leave the socket--unless the wires are intermiate--but I`m going with socket..

quote Originally posted by 3800superfast: Yep, you did try the a/c relay--so that woud leave the socket--unless the wires are intermiate--but I`m going with socket..

If so what do I do with them? I am going out to pick up new relays now.

Thanks Matt