I have 3 empty propane tanks laying around and just thought about this.

Also should I mount my current 10lb bottle on its side or standing up?

Well a propane tank IS designed to store gas under pressure. Flammable gas no less (nitrous oxide actually isnt flammable on it's own.)
With that in mind, it might actually work fairly well. You'd want to make sure the tank had all the propane VERY well removed first though. Having an intense oxygen source mixed with a fuel source under pressure doesnt sound like a good idea.
And I'm not sure if any place would fill it for you.

As for sideways/tallways, it depends if nitrous if heavier than straight air or not. If it is, the tank should be upside down to get the most out of it. If it isnt, the tank should be right side up to use it all.

There should be a tube within the bottle that basically goes to one side of the base of the bottle. Depending which side will determine ideal orientation. If possible mount the bottle at a forty-five degree angle with the tube to the bottom and rear of the car. From there, there are less and less desirable orientations. It depends on the space contraints of where you plan to mount the bottle. Often ideal is not practical.

Oh yeah, some nitrous bottles do not have the tube removed. In such instances, mount the bottle upside down.

I hope I explained that all clearly.

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1986 Fiero SE Fastback

NO.........Paul

[This message has been edited by Paul Prince (edited 04-27-2006).]

I didn't look it up but I think that propane only has to be under around 40 psi to stay liquid so a propand tank is probably designed to hold maybe 500 psi . Nitrous is stored at a much higher pressure- you wouldn't get anybody to fill it.

Propane tanks are light sheet metal only pressurized to 150-180lbs. I thought nitrous used a seamless heavy wall bottle like oxygen, I know oxygen bottles get 1800-2000lbs.

DO NOT TRY TO PUT THAT PRESSURE IN A PROPANE TANK!!!!!!!!

I have seen the results of trying it. Just imagine blood everywhere, a head,shoulder and one arm over there, legs over here, and the rest scattered over a 50 ft radius.

I`m pretty sure Phil is correct on this, one way you could check (carefully) is add air pressure to the tanks, little at a time & measure it. But don`t take it up to high --while doing this , just take a soapy sponge or squirt bottle and saturate the tank--look for leaking air bubbles . I hate pressurized stuff--had to throw that in there---just a phobia I guess....

You'll want to find out what the different tanks are rated for. An air tank is, quite simply, a bomb. Too much pressure and it could detonate, sending shards of metal all over. Not good.

The way they pressure tanks is to fill them with water then put air pressure on the water- water is non-compressible (for the most part) so when the tank hits is burst strength there is only a little pop. Very simplified explaination but that's how it's done.

You might get away with using a scuba tank but theres no way I'd try it with a propane than.

Nitrous pressures can approach 1600psi. Besides it is a moot point, no one would refill a tank that was not designed for nitrous.........Paul

Also propane is left hand thread on the bottle, to avoid accenetal connection in place of an inert gas, so not only would no one be willing to fill it, but it would be impossible to connect. Why are you using a baby bottle anyway? Build an engine to make real power

Most tanks have a pressure rating stamped right on them, they also have an inspection date. After so many years ( I seem to recall it is five ) the tanks are supposed to be recertified. You also only get a certain number of recertifications and the tank gets retired. To certify them they are filled to one and one half their rating pressure, this tends to weaken the tank, that is why they can only be certified a certain number of times. The recertification test is done with the tank submerged in water container, this is to help contain any explosion. I learned all of this when I was being certified for SCUBA over twenty years ago. SCUBA tanks had a rating of around 3,000 psi or 200 bar and held about 80 cubic feet of air, if I remember correctly. I have seem some paint ball guys use SCUBA tanks to fill their guns. I found that the carbon fiber tanks used for emergency breathing packs can hold 4,500 psi and I think 150 cubic feet of air, but they are expensive. I think you also have to be certified to buy the SCUBA tanks anyway, and as someone pointed out above, you probably won't find anyone to fill a SCUBA tank or any other unapproved container with nitrous oxide.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 04-27-2006).]

My nitrous bottle has a rating of 3000PSI for safety.
It operates at 900-1100 of PSI depending on the temperature of the bottle.
If propane tanks were rated that high, everyone would use them since they're cheap...

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1986 Fiero2m8 (LT1 NX / 4T60 Roadster in progress)
My build thread - https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/071642.html

use a CO2 fire extinguisher tank

Thanks guys. I just thought about it since they are real cheap and readily available. I read somewhere in the archives that you should mount the bottle sideways, but I will call NX to talk to a tech.

quote Originally posted by Fiero2m8: My nitrous bottle has a rating of 3000PSI for safety. It operates at 900-1100 of PSI depending on the temperature of the bottle. If propane tanks were rated that high, everyone would use them since they're cheap...

if propane tanks were rated that high they wouldn't be cheap

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: if propane tanks were rated that high they wouldn't be cheap

I agree - thanks for completing my thoughts.

Fiero2m8

Do not try to fill a propane tank with Nitrous.

quote Originally posted by Phil: The way they pressure tanks is to fill them with water then put air pressure on the water- water is non-compressible (for the most part) so when the tank hits is burst strength there is only a little pop. Very simplified explaination but that's how it's done.

Actually, that's not correct. The way that hydrotesting is done ( the pressure retesting ) is by filling the unit with water, then actually forcing more water into the unit under pressure. The hydrotest sleeve that the cylinders are inserted in measures the expansion of the tank, and if the tank expands too much, it fails. There is no air involved.

quote Originally posted by paulcal: You might get away with using a scuba tank but theres no way I'd try it with a propane than.

You cannot use a SCUBA tank......different type of cylinder.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Most tanks have a pressure rating stamped right on them, they also have an inspection date. After so many years ( I seem to recall it is five ) the tanks are supposed to be recertified. You also only get a certain number of recertifications and the tank gets retired. To certify them they are filled to one and one half their rating pressure, this tends to weaken the tank, that is why they can only be certified a certain number of times. The recertification test is done with the tank submerged in water container, this is to help contain any explosion. I learned all of this when I was being certified for SCUBA over twenty years ago. SCUBA tanks had a rating of around 3,000 psi or 200 bar and held about 80 cubic feet of air, if I remember correctly. I have seem some paint ball guys use SCUBA tanks to fill their guns. I found that the carbon fiber tanks used for emergency breathing packs can hold 4,500 psi and I think 150 cubic feet of air, but they are expensive. I think you also have to be certified to buy the SCUBA tanks anyway, and as someone pointed out above, you probably won't find anyone to fill a SCUBA tank or any other unapproved container with nitrous oxide.

The steel and aluminum pressure tanks can be recertified until they fail with either a visual inspection or a failure during pressure testing. This afternoon, one of our drivers returned a oxygen tank that was manufactured in 1916 and it's still in service. Yes, 1916. 90 years old. We recently had the cylinder blasted and repainted and it looks better than some of the much newer ones. As for hydrotesting, this is a very good explaination of how it's done...

http://www.sounddive.com/hydro%20test%20illustration.htm

The fiber wrapped tanks that were mentioned above do have a life span of 15 years. At that time, they are taken out of service.....no question.

If you want to use Nitrous, make sure that the equipment you buy is rated to handle the product. It's very dangerous if not handled correctly and can cause a lot of damage. Our company fills all of the Nitrous for the metro Milwaukee area and we sell to the speed shops. These cylinders are not light duty tanks like propane tanks.

Please be careful.

Mark
Airgas Puritan Medical

[This message has been edited by Firefox (edited 04-27-2006).]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What Mark said.

In addition, a Nitrous tank has a pickup tube in it that is curved down at the bottom and aligned with the outlet valve so it will remain submerged in the liquid. You do not want to be sucking nitrous vapor, you want liquid and that's what it's designed for. If you look at the brackets from the mfr., they are all made to have the bottle about 20 degrees or so from horizontal and you mount the bottle in them with the outlet down. You can stand them up straighter, but not straight up, if you want to mess with the brackets. Never have the valve pointing down.

And in case you didn't get it earlier, no, you can't use a propane tank for nitrous or any other high pressure gas.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by goatnipples2002: I have 3 empty propane tanks laying around and just thought about this. Also should I mount my current 10lb bottle on its side or standing up?

No legit dealer who sells N2O will fill a propane tank with it, so there really no sense in considering it. Be safe and stick to the proper tanks.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: In addition, a Nitrous tank has a pickup tube in it that is curved down at the bottom and aligned with the outlet valve so it will remain submerged in the liquid. You do not want to be sucking nitrous vapor, you want liquid and that's what it's designed for. If you look at the brackets from the mfr., they are all made to have the bottle about 20 degrees or so from horizontal and you mount the bottle in them with the outlet down. You can stand them up straighter, but not straight up, if you want to mess with the brackets. Never have the valve pointing down. John Stricker

You explained it way better than me.

Spend the extra 80 bucks or so and get a real tank.
You can find used 20 lb'ers real cheap