Simple questions for those of you that have driven or worked on
both the muncie 4 speed and the getrag 5 speed:

1.With 3.65 what does each turn at 70 mph?

2.What kind of durability does each have?

3.Which one is more fun?

I have decided I want to get a GT with a manual...I really want a
5 speed, but can't find any in the southwest. There are several I
could get real easy that have 4 speeds. I am wondering if getting
a 4 speed would be a bad idea or should I wait and get a 5 speed?

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May those that love us love us. For those who don't love us, may God turn their hearts. But if he can't turn their hearts, may he turn their ankles, so that we may know them by their limping.

The names, muncie and getrag are used interchangably by GM. as the manufacturer of a type of trans. Perhaps you mean the Isuzu tranny?

Phil

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87 FIERO GT 2.8 5spd

GM auto tech for 27 years. Specializing in electrical and computer problems. Now on workers comp. and it looks like I will be unable to return to work as a tech.

[This message has been edited by GTDude (edited 01-31-2004).]

quote Originally posted by GTDude: The names, muncie and getrag are used interchangably by GM. as the manufacturer of a type of trans. Perhaps you mean the Isuzu tranny? Phil

Usually (at least for Fieros) the Muncie refers to the 4 speed. The Isuzu was the 5-speed in the 4 cylinder models. The Getrag was the 5 speed in the late 86-88 V6 Fieros. The Getrag is sometimes referred to as a Muncie-Getrag; it was designed by Getrag but built in GM's Muncie plant.

I'll tell ya what's fun if you don't mind having no top end power. Get a 1984 4spd with the 4:10 ratio. Now that will give ya some low end grunt. I put one in an 87 GT I had and loved it. It reved so fast that you didn't even have time to change from 1st to second. Like a rocket for a few seconds....lol.

Phil

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87 FIERO GT 2.8 5spd

GM auto tech for 27 years. Specializing in electrical and computer problems. Now on workers comp. and it looks like I will be unable to return to work as a tech.

I have an Isusu 5 speed on my V8 powered fiero. I can tell you that 1st gear is to short! As soon as I let the clutch go its time to shift to 2nd already. In fact if I'm just regular driving I prefer to start in 2nd. Of course I have a V8 with lots of torque and a short 1st gear might be practical with a small low torque-high winding engine. Isusus are also quite weak (This is my third one!). Next time I'm going with a Muncie with the Lower gears (wide ratio). If I had a Quad4 or something like that I would stick with the close ratios.

Owning 5 Fiero's, four of them manuals I can tell you from experiance.

(1)4:10 4sd- most fun you can have with a manual, do not do any higway driving with this one, you WILL regreat it, that too I know from experiance.

(2)Getrag 5sd- great all around tranny for our cars, closest you will get to that sports car feel of acceleration and gas milage that was offered with our cars.

(3)Isuzu 5sd- great gas milage tranny, add a engine with a little power behind it and it can be some fun, but a good over all tranny.

Depending on what you use for a engine and how hard you push that tranny will determin it's lifespan, I have listed the trannies from strongest to weakest by what I have read from others here on the forum. I have yet to break a manual tranny, but then again I do not race my cars like some do, they could answer the durability quest you have better than I.

What about question #1? I have a Muncie 4 speed (.81 ratio in forth) with 3.65 ratio. At 70 MPH the RPM is 2900 with stock tires. Now what the RPM are for a 5 speed I am not sure, but someone will let us know.

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Boys and Their Toys

My 87 GT with a muncie 5spd runs about 2500 rpm at 70.

Phil

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87 FIERO GT 2.8 5spd

GM auto tech for 27 years. Specializing in electrical and computer problems. Now on workers comp. and it looks like I will be unable to return to work as a tech.

My 86GT with the 4spd does about 2700 at 70

quote Originally posted by GTDude: The names, muncie and getrag are used interchangably by GM. as the manufacturer of a type of trans. Perhaps you mean the Isuzu tranny? Phil

They're not THAT interchangeable. They were all built in the Muncie plant, but the 5 speed was a Getrag design, while Getrag had nothing to do with the design of the 4 speed. I think that your meaning will be clearer if you refer to the 5 speed as a Getrag and the 4 speed as the Muncie, like everyone else does.

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'87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above

Do that again, only mean it this time

84 4 speed, i get about 3400 rpms at 70 mph. in a pinch i can skip right over 1st gear, which makes it a 3-speed with an extra lo-low gear..

quote Originally posted by lurker: 84 4 speed, i get about 3400 rpms at 70 mph. in a pinch i can skip right over 1st gear, which makes it a 3-speed with an extra lo-low gear..

Which 84 transmission are you using? The SE 4.10 or the regular 3.32

Personaly I would buy a Fiero with the Getrag or Muncie. I would get the Muncie if that is all you can find in your area I am sure you will enjoy it. They are both good trannys and I think they are both fun to shift. I have a Muncie in my 86 gt and for where I live it is plenty fun. If I drove it on the highway alot over 70mph I would probably prefer the 5 speed. However, I did take my car to the 20th last summer and I really didn't miss 5th gear that much. Oh I have the 3.65 final drive. I hope this helps.

quote Originally posted by Will: They're not THAT interchangeable. They were all built in the Muncie plant, but the 5 speed was a Getrag design, while Getrag had nothing to do with the design of the 4 speed. I think that your meaning will be clearer if you refer to the 5 speed as a Getrag and the 4 speed as the Muncie, like everyone else does.

While I do agree with you, Will, to avoid confusion people should also know that when looking for parts, etc., it is referred to as a Muncie 5-speed, not Getrag, not Muncie/Getrag. Yes, it's confusing, but that's how many of the parts books are written.

For everyone's edification, the breakdown is like this...
Muncie 4-speed (in multiple final drive ratios)
Isuzu 5-speed (Isuzu design, used on 4-cylinder Fieros)

The V6 5-speed is referred to by as:
Getrag 5-speed
Muncie/Getrag 5-speed
Muncie 5-speed
All of these refer to the same transmission. That's why it's just easier to call it a Getrag, since that avoids confusion, but if you go look for Getrag 5-speed info, you may find nothing if it's listed as a Muncie 5-speed in the book.

Hope that helps some. Clear as mud, eh?

quote Originally posted by v8fiero400: Which 84 transmission are you using? The SE 4.10 or the regular 3.32

FYI , my 84 with the the 4:10 and the stock 13" tires did 67 MPH at 3000 rpm.

I recall in another thread about trannys that the final drive gear ratios for the 4 and 5 speeds were very close, so the RPMs aren't much different and you don't get much better fuel economy with the 5 speed.

My 86 GT 5 speed turns right at 2400 RPM in 5th gear at 70 mph.

What's the overdrive gear ratio for the getrag? That tells the story.

BTW, anybody know the overdrive ratio for the isuzu 5 spd?

quote Originally posted by v8fiero400: I wouldn't get a 4.10 geared Muncie if you want to keep your freeway rpm's down. the 4.10 gear ratio came on 84 SE's. The 3.65 Muncie came on the V6's. The 3.32 came on the non SE 84s. I don't know much about the Getrags except I hear that they are strong. But the gear spacing on the Getrags is very similar to the Isusu's.

With the same tires a 4.10 and 3.65 should be within 100 rpm of each other at highway speed. They both have an overdive 4th gear but the ratio is taller on the 4.10.

With the stock tires my '84 with a 4.10 turned 3000 rpm at 67 mph. A Getrag five speed is something like 2300 rpm at this speed.

Give it a rest. There is nothing wrong with a 4.10 on the highway! If you have an engine that can handle the rpm then what better tranny is there? I have done 2000 KM round trips in my car and loved every second of it. Cruising at 3000 RPM and blast to 6000rpm no problem.

STOP SAYING THE 4.10 ISNT GOOD ON THE HIGHWAY

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quote Originally posted by donk316: Give it a rest. There is nothing wrong with a 4.10 on the highway! If you have an engine that can handle the rpm then what better tranny is there? I have done 2000 KM round trips in my car and loved every second of it. Cruising at 3000 RPM and blast to 6000rpm no problem. STOP SAYING THE 4.10 ISNT GOOD ON THE HIGHWAY

I agree, you just have to get used to running 3000+ rpm on the highway. There's not alot wrong with that. Heck I rented a VW Polo diesel in Europe last year. It ran 3500+ RPM on the highway and got 45 MPG.

So what is there really to get used too? I have the th125(I know that it is an auto), but at 80 mph my engine speed is 3500 rpms. I thought that it was normal. I do it everyday and have NO problems the 2.8 is a great everyday engine if it is just taken care of. The power really sucks thought.
Just my .02.
dustin

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