4.4L Northstar Info
Topic started by: AJxtcman, Date: 02-08-2007 09:27 PM
Original thread: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archive-000001/HTML/20090219-2-080250.html
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              [This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 03-16-2007).] |
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75 pounds.... wow. |
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This is some bell housing pictures. 4.4L RWD 6L80E trans  4.4L RWD Rear of the block and oil pan   4.6L RWD Rear of the block  4.6L FWD Rear of the block  3.6L LY7 FWD trans bell housing for the 6T75 trans  New 6 speed auto trans for the 3.6L FWD  A little info on the trans.  [This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 02-08-2007).] |
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Now the $64,000 question is: Since the LC3's ECM is designed to talk to the rear-drive 6-speed auto's TCM; will it talk to a front-drive 6-speed auto's TCM correctly without reprogramming? -ryan |
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Interesting, but I cant say Im a fan of the supercharger.... (hehe, fan....centrifugal blower?) |
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Please just open you eyes a little on this. I will review a little. 93 N* book states that the PCM will go into Torque reduction for the basic four instances During Trans shift Heavy accel from stop Brakes are applied with moderate to heavy throttle Driver abuse You can add a fifth to the early years Brake are applied with low brake booster vacuum. That is the standard 4 or 5 The pcm will NOT use Torque Reduction if the following is present. Coolant -40Ί C or above 131Ί Low coolant level is present RPM below 600 We all know that you will need a PWM torque desired signal. 90% Desired torque is 100% and 10% is 100% reduction. If the stop/BTSI/Cruise Brake switch input circuit problem will Reduce Engine Power "torque management" Loss of ABS/TCS Data. The PCM sets all serial data from the ABS/TCS to Zero. 96-99 PCM are DELCO and have similar Torque Management functions Except most do not use a BBV sensor. This PCM is similar to a LS1 with more complex software. 2000 to 2003 use a Seimens PCM I will add info later on that PCM 2004 to 2005 use a small PCM I will add info later 2006 to 2007 use E67 ECM and High speed CAN. this is the same PCM/ECM in most GM cars. IT is known as a PIP controller. GM can plug and program as needed. This PCM uses the same software protocal in all lines. Almost all Tuner companies support this PCM for Northstars. A Ecotech uses this PCM. I will post more info on tunning for this PCM. |
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Wow, sorry I asked.
I already know all of this. I have access to the same current GM training materials as you do. And this didn't even come close to answering my question: WILL THE 4.4 SC N* ECM communicate with the FWD 6-speed Auto's TCM correctly??? I'm thinking you don't know and you won't easily be able to find out because GM isn't using the LC3 in a FWD application yet (if ever). And GM has a bad habit of only putting information out about stuff they build/sell, not about what can be swapped and what part might work with another. The only reason WHY I asked is because the 6-speed auto RWD tranny has it's own TCM as does the 6-speed auto FWD tranny (6T70/6T75). All of the GM training information I have read on these TCM's makes no mention as to the actual structure of the data signal and communications protocols because that information is not required by the tech in order to do a repair. I assume the only people who would know this information would be the engineers who designed and programmed the new ECMs/TCMs for the items in question. |
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May I ask who is your zones field engineer? |
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The last time I looked the 07s had a Bosch controller. When I did the training they said this controler is used in FWD cars. The 3900 has GM's latest ECM currently available. The Motorola-based E67 has 32-bit processing power and 32 megabytes of Burst Flash memory, 32 kilobytes of external RAM and 36 kilobytes of internal RAM plus a high speed CAN bus to deliver the necessary power to run VVT and the active manifold. 2.4L Ecotec GM will also introduce variable valve timing to the Ecotec four-cylinder engine family. A 2.4L Ecotec will be an optional powerplant in the 2005 Chevrolet Cobalt. The new four-banger is also equipped with electronic throttle control and shares the V-6's E67 engine control module. All analog engine sensors have been replaced with more accurate digital sensors and individual coil-on-plug ignition modules improve upon the two-coil "cassette" found on the original Ecotec. Twin counter-rotating balance shafts are driven by a zero-maintenance chain that also drives the camshafts and water pump. http://findarticles.com/p/a...83/ai_111617012/pg_2 |
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Catalog shows 06 Northstar ECM # 12576523 4.6L 06 Northstar ECM # 12603530 4.4L partial list by part # #12576523 04-06 SRX, XLR, STS #12603530 06 4.4L and 6.0L also fits HHR 2.4L I will have the other parts guy check for me later. |
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Engine Control Module Connector End Views Connector 1: Engine Control Module (ECM) C1 Connector 2: Engine Control Module (ECM) C2 Connector 3: Engine Control Module (ECM) C3 Engine Control Module (ECM) C1  Connector Part Information OEM: 34576-3103 Service: 88988373 Description: 56-Way F (BU) Terminal Part Information Pins: 7, 18, 34, 39, 40, 44, 45, 53, 54, 56 Terminal/Tray: 33467-0003/23 Core/Insulation Crimp: H/H Release Tool/Test Probe: J-38125-213/J-35616-64B (L-BU) Pins: 9, 12, 13, 20, 33, 35, 36, 37, 46, 47, 48, 49, 19, 55 Terminal/Tray: 33467-0005/23 Core/Insulation Crimp: Pins 9, 12, 13, 20, 33, 35, 36, 37, 46, 47, 48, 49 - J/J Core/Insulation Crimp: Pins 19, 55 - K/K Release Tool/Test Probe: J-38125-213/J-35616-64B (L-BU) Engine Control Module (ECM) C1 Pin Wire Color Circuit No. Function 1-6 -- -- Not Used 7 WH 17 Stop Lamp Switch Signal 8 -- -- Not Used 9 TN 2759 Low Reference 10-11 -- -- Not Used 12 BN/WH 419 MIL Control 13 D-GN/WH 465 Fuel Pump Relay Control (Primary) 14-17 -- -- Not Used 18 YE/BK 5728 ECM/TCM Serial Data Wake Up 19 PK 239 Run/Crank Ignition 1 Voltage 20 RD/WH 1440 Battery Positive Voltage 21-32 -- -- Not Used 33 WH/BK 1164 Accelerator Pedal Position 5-Volt Reference (1) 34 GY 2709 5-Volt Reference 35 TN 1274 5-Volt Reference 36 BN 1271 Low Reference 37 PU 1272 Low Reference 38 -- -- Not Used 39 BN 818 Vehicle Speed Signal 40 BN 5069 Powertrain Relay Control 41-43 -- -- Not Used 44 D-BU 1936 Fuel Level Sensor Signal (Secondary) 45 L-BU 1937 Secondary Fuel Level Sensor Signal 46 BN 7123 Super Charger Inlet Air Pressure Sensor Signal 47 D-BU 1161 APP Sensor 1 Signal 48 D-GN 890 Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor Signal 49 L-BU 1162 APP Sensor 2 Signal 50-52 -- -- Not Used 53 D-GN/WH 459 A/C Compressor Clutch Relay Control 54 D-BU 473 High Speed Cooling Fan Relay Control 55 WH 1310 EVAP Canister Vent Solenoid Control 56 YE 447 Starter Relay Coil COntrol Engine Control Module (ECM) C2  Connector Part Information OEM: 34566-0103 Service: 88988931 Description: 73-Way F (BK) Terminal Part Information Pins: 73 Terminal/Tray: 7116-4152-02/9 Core/Insulation Crimp: 2/5 Release Tool/Test Probe: 12094430/J-35616-35 (VT) Pins: 13, 28, 45, 65 Terminal/Tray: 33467-0003/23 Core/Insulation Crimp: H/H Release Tool/Test Probe: J-38125-213/J-35616-64B (L-BU) Pins: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 27, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 62, 63, 64, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 11, 12 Terminal/Tray: 33467-0005/23 Core/Insulation Crimp: Pins 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 27, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 62, 63, 64, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72 - J/J Core/Insulation Crimp: Pins 11, 12 - K/K Release Tool/Test Probe: J-38125-213/J-35616-64B (L-BU) Engine Control Module (ECM) C2 Pin Wire Color Circuit No. Function 1 PU 2121 IC 1 Control 2 TN/WH 3111 HO2S Low Reference (Bank 1 Sensor 1) 3 PU/WH 3110 HO2S Reference Voltage (Bank 1 Sensor 1) 4 PU 3120 HO2S High Signal (Bank 1 Sensor 2) 5 TN/WH 3121 HO2S Low Signal (Bank 1 Sensor 2) 6 L-BU 1876 Knock Sensor 2 Signal 7 GY 2303 Low Reference 8 D-BU 496 Knock Sensor (1) Signal 9 GY 1716 Low Reference 10 -- -- Not Used 11 YE 581 TAC Motor Control - 1 12 BN 582 TAC Motor Control - 2 13 PK/BK 5290 Ignition 1 Voltage 14 PK/BK 6395 Camshaft Position (CMP) Actuator Solenoid -- Intake Bank 1 Control 15 TN/BK 6397 Camshaft Position (CMP) Actuator Solenoid -- Intake Bank 2 Control 16 D-BU/WH 878 Fuel Injector 8 Control 17 OG/WH 2122 IC 2 Control 18 L-BU/WH 2126 IC 6 Control 19 BN/WH 2130 Low Reference 20 PU 6267 Low Reference 21 TN 6268 Low Reference 22 WH 6269 Low Reference 23 BN 6266 Low Reference 24 BK 2755 Low Reference 25 D-GN 7125 Super Charger Inlet Air Pressure Sensor Return 26 -- -- Not Used 27 GY/BK 6272 Low Reference 28 PK/BK 5290 Ignition 1 Voltage 29 TN 2752 Low Reference 30 BN/WH 6754 Low Reference 31 D-BU/WH 6756 Low Reference 32 PK/BK 1746 Fuel Injector 3 Control 33 OG 2127 IC 7 Control 34 D-GN 2125 IC 5 Control 35 BN 2129 Low Reference 36 D-GN 6457 Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor -- Exhaust Bank 1 Signal 37 OG 6260 Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor -- Intake Bank 2 Signal 38 PK 6261 Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor -- Exhaust Bank 2 Signal 39 D-GN 6259 Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor -- Intake Bank 1 Signal 40 GY 2705 5-Volt Reference 41 YE/BK 7124 5-Volt Reference 42 TN 2760 Low Reference 43 PU/WH 6270 5-Volt Reference 44 GY 2701 5-Volt Reference 45 BN 6273 Oil Temperature Sensor Low Reference 46 BN 6753 Low Reference 47 D-BU 6755 Low Reference 48 L-GN/BK 1745 Fuel Injector 2 Control 49 TN/WH 845 Fuel Injector 5 Control 50 WH/BK 6396 Camshaft Position (CMP) Actuator Solenoid -- Exhaust Bank 1 Control 51 GY/BK 6394 Camshaft Position (CMP) Actuator Solenoid -- Exhaust Bank 2 Control 52 L-BU/BK 844 Fuel Injector 4 Control 53 L-BU 2123 IC 3 Control 54 D-GN/WH 2124 IC 4 Control 55 PU/WH 2128 IC 5 Control 56 D-GN/WH 6264 5-Volt Reference 57 OG/BK 6263 5-Volt Reference 58 PK/BK 6262 5-Volt Reference 59 D-BU/WH 6265 5-Volt Reference 60 TN/WH 331 Oil Pressure Sensor Signal 61 -- -- Not Used 62 TN 472 IAT Sensor Signal 63 WH/BK 6271 CKP Sensor Signal 64 D-GN 485 TP Sensor 1 Signal 65 D-GN/WH 357 TCC Release Switch Signal 66 PU 486 TP Sensor 2 Signal 67 YE 492 MAF Sensor Signal 68 GY/WH 3113 HO2S Heater Low Control (Bank 1 Sensor 1) 69 GY/WH 3122 HO2S Heater Low Control (Bank 2 Sensor 1) 70 YE/BK 846 Fuel Injector 6 Control 71 OG/BK 877 Fuel Injector 7 Control 72 TN 1744 Fuel Injector 1Control 73 BK/WH 1551 Ground Engine Control Module (ECM) C3  Connector Part Information OEM: 34566-3303 Service: 88988372 Description: 73-Way F (GY) Terminal Part Information Pins: 73 Terminal/Tray: 7116-4152-02/9 Core/Insulation Crimp: 2/5 Release Tool/Test Probe: 12094430/J-35616-35 (VT) Pins: 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 14, 15, 16, 18, 21, 22, 23, 29, 33, 34, 35, 37, 38, 39, 46, 50, 53, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59 Terminal/Tray: 33467-0005/23 Core/Insulation Crimp: J/J Release Tool/Test Probe: J-38125-213/J-35616-64B (L-BU) Pins: 48, 49 Terminal/Tray: 33467-0003/23 Core/Insulation Crimp: H/H Release Tool/Test Probe: J-38125-213/J-35616-64B (L-BU) Engine Control Module (ECM) C3 Pin Wire Color Circuit No. Function 1-2 -- -- Not Used 3 TN/WH 3211 HO2S Low Reference (Bank 2 Sensor 1) 4 PU/WH 3210 HO2S Reference Voltage (Bank 2 Sensor 1) 5 PU 3220 HO2S High Signal (Bank 2 Sensor 2) 6 TN 3221 HO2S Low Signal (Bank 2 Sensor 2) 7 OG 225 Generator Turn On Signal 8-13 -- -- Not Used 14 L-BU 7126 Super Charger Vacuum Bypass Valve Control 15 L-GN 3212 HO2S Heater Low Control (Bank 2 Sensor 1) 16 PK 2014 Coolant Pump Relay Control 17 -- -- Not Used 18 BN 1174 Oil Level Switch Signal 19-20 -- -- Not Used 21 BK/WH 2751 Low Reference 22 OG/BK 6014 BARO Sensor Low Reference 23 OG/BK 469 Low Reference 24-28 -- -- Not Used 29 GY 23 Generator Field Duty Cycle Signal 30-32 -- -- Not Used 33 TN 2501 High Speed GMLAN Serial Data Bus - 34 YE/BK 6120 IAT2 Low Reference 35 TN 2761 Low Reference 36 -- -- Not Used 37 GY 2700 5-Volt Reference 38 WH/BK 2932 5-Volt Reference 39 GY 2704 5-Volt Reference 40-45 -- -- Not Used 46 OG/BK 1786 Park/Neutral Signal 47 -- -- Not Used 48 PU 428 EVAP Canister Purge SOlenoid Control 49 D-GN 335 Low Speed Cooling Fan Relay Control 50 OG/BK 3223 HO2S Heater Low Control (Bank 2 Sensor 2) 51-52 -- -- Not Used 53 TN-BK 2500 High Speed GMLAN Serial Data Bus + 54 -- -- Not Used 55 YE 410 ECT Sensor Signal 56 L-BU 6118 IAT2 Signal 57 OG/BK 380 A/C Refrigerant Pressure Sensor Signal 58 GY-BK 433 BARO Sensor Signal 59 L-GN 432 MAP Sensor Signal 60-72 -- -- Not Used 73 BK/WH 1551 Ground ________________________________________ |
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AJxtcman, so what does the PCM do if there is nothing connected to terminal 33 or 53 on the C3 connector? |
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ECMs used 2006----GMX211---Impala -----------Z4 ----------3.5L ---------High Value V6 --------- E67 2006----GMX211---Impala LZ9 3.9L High Value V6 E67 2006----GMX211---Impala LZE 3.5L High Value V6 E67 2006----GMX231---Monte Carlo LZ4 3.5L High Value V6 E67 2006----GMX231---Monte Carlo LZ9 3.9L High Value V6 E67 2006----GMX231---Monte Carlo LZE 3.5L High Value V6 E67 2006----GMX272---Cad. DTS L37 4.6L PV8 -E67 2006----GMX272---Cad. DTS LD8 4.6L PV8 -E67 2006----GMX222---Lucerne LD8 4.6L PV8 --E67 2007----GMX211---Impala LS4 5.3L Gen IV V8-- E67 2007----GMX211---Impala LZ4 3.5L High Value V6 E38 2007----GMX211---Impala LZ8 3.9L (DoD) High Value V6 E38 2007----GMX211---Impala LZE 3.5L High Value V6 E38 2007----GMX231---Monte Carlo LS4 5.3L Gen IV V8- E67 2007----GMX231---Monte Carlo LZ4 3.5L High Value V6 E38 2007----GMX231---Monte Carlo LZE 3.5L High Value V6 E38 2007----GMX272---Cad. DTS L37 4.6L PV8 E67 2007----GMX272---Cad. DTS LD8 4.6L PV8 E67 2007----GMX222---Lucerne LD8 4.6L PV8 E67 2007----Holden VE (Zeta) Commodore L76 6.0L Gen IV V8- E38 2007----Holden VE (Zeta) Commodore L98 6.0L Gen IV V8- E38 2007----Holden VE (Zeta) Commodore LS2 6.0L Gen IV V8- E38 2007----Holden WM (Zeta) Statesman L76 6.0L Gen IV V8- E38 2007----Holden WM (Zeta) Caprice ??? ??? Gen IV V8- E38 2007----GMT921---Tahoe LMG 5.3L Gen IV V8 ----------------E38 2007----GMT921---Tahoe LY2 4.8L Gen IV V8- E38 2007----GMT921---Tahoe LY5 5.3L Gen IV V8 ----------------E38 2007----GMT922---Yukon L92 6.2L Gen IV V8 ----------------E38 2007----GMT922---Yukon LMG 5.3L Gen IV V8 ----------------E38 2007----GMT922---Yukon LY2 4.8L Gen IV V8 ----------------E38 2007----GMT922---Yukon LY5 5.3L Gen IV V8 ----------------E38 2007----GMT926---Escalade L92 6.2L Gen IV V8 ----------------E38 2007----GMT966-- Outlook LY7 3.6L High Feature V6 E67 2007----GMT968--- Acadia LY7 3.6L High Feature V6 E67 2007----GMT265--- SRX LH2 4.6L PV8 --------- E67 2007----C105 Antara LZC 3.0L 60° V6 China E67 2006 Marque Modθle 8e caractθre ΙFC Grosseur ECM du du NIV du moteur du moteur moteur GMT001 Chevrolet HHR P LE5 2,4 L E67 GMT201 Chevrolet Uplander 1 LZ9 3,9 L E67 Saturn Relay 1 LZ9 3,9 L E67 Pontiac Montana SV6 1 LZ9 3,9 L E67 Buick Terraza 1 LZ9 3,9 L E67 GMX001 Chevrolet Cobalt B LE5 2,4 L E67 Pontiac Pursuit B LE5 2,4 L E67 GMX020 Pontiac Solstice B LE5 2,4 L E67 GMX023 Saturn Sky B LE5 2,4 L E67 GMX211 Chevrolet Impala N LZ4 3,5 L E67 1 LZ9 3,9 L E67 C LS4 5,3 L E67 GMX215-V Cadillac XLR D LC3 4,4 L SC E67 GMX222 Buick Lucerne Y LD8 4,6 L E67 GMX231 Chevrolet Monte Ca K LZE 3,5 L E67 N LZ4 3,5 L E67 1 LZ9 3,9 L E67 GMX272 Cadillac DTS Y LD8 4,6 L E67 9 LD8 4,6 L E67 GMX295-V Cadillac STS-V D LC3 4,4 L SC E67 GMX320-V Cadillac CTS-V D LS2 6,0 L E67 GMX365 Buick La Crosse/Allu C LS4 5,3 L E67 1 LZ9 3,9 L E67 GMX380 Chevrolet Malibu B LE5 2,4 L E67 GMX381 Pontiac G6 1 LZ9 3,9 L E67 |
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Great question. From my understanding the DLC will connect to the 2 wires, but will need a resistor between the 2 wires at the DLC. If you look at the last posting you will see that this is the same ECM as a G6 or solstice. That should show that this PCM will work with a F40 trans with the correct software alterations. |
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are the cam phasers controlled by the ecm or oil pressure? if you can narrow down what the ecm actually looks for/controlls, mabye it could be removed and just use standalone engine management? im sure with most of the new gm/ford engines using all of these drive by wire/cam phasing/drive an engine like a playstation things that sds or painless will come out with a compatible management system. even then if you could remove this stuff and go back to a good ol drive by cable system with standalone it might make this swap easier. as for you guys getting the gm technical man.s can you get me these books for the engines im more likely to see? like the ecotech and vortech and 350(whatever engine code it is by now), and nstar? i doubt ill work on an xlr-v any time in my life but it would be nice to know whats going on with the more mainstream cars. i can trade vw tech information if anyone actually cares. |
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The 4.4L ECM also the 6.0L GM PART # 12603530 CATEGORY: Emission Control System Hardware PACK QTY: 1 CORE CHARGE: $0.00 GM LIST: $383.88 OUR PRICE: $199.62 |
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http://www.speartech.com/ Using the latest GM ECM/TCM combination provides precise factory control for both the engine and the transmission! Custom length wiring harness comes with all of our great features including: fuse block, fuel pump relay, cruise control wiring, check engine light, and diagnostic port. Our custom molded harnesses practically plug themselves in on your engine, making hookup easy and quick. Our setup allows communication and diagnostics using any late model GM compatible scan tools or diagnostic equipment. This is a huge advantage over aftermarket race ECU's and boat controllers. If you want to diagnose a check engine light or see how your engine is running you can go to your corner mechanic or GM dealership, plug in their scan tool and see everything going on in your engine! Package includes custom wiring harness, engine control module, transmission control module, accelerator pedal.  Complete package: $1949 That include the TCM and APP |
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http://carputing.tripod.com/index.htm LS2 edit will let you tune many of the latest 2005-2007 cars and trucks. Please see the vehicles and engines supported below, and start tuning! In 2005 GM released the LS2, GEN IV engine, and started using the GMLAN communications interface. In 2006 GM released new ECM's for the LS2/LS7and started using them to control many of their cars. In 2007 GM expanded these into a broad range of their trucks. We support these 2007 car engines: LS2 LS7 LS4 LE5 2.4L LZ9 3.9L LZ4 3.6L V6 4.4L Supercharged Northstar 4.6L Northstar 4.6L RWD LZ4 3.5L 3.5L E85 5.3 L FWD Want to know what users think about LS2-edit??? Check out GM HiTech Performance: http://www.gmhightechperfor...re_review/index.html LS2-edit will tune all these ECM's, and will tune the TCM's for all these cars/trucks with 4 speed automatics. Any questions about the editor capabilities?? Just ask mailto:PCMdoc@surfree.com Here is the user's guide for LS2-edit. It is an MS-Word file stored in a zipped format (WinZip is one tool that will unzip it for you. this zipped version is still nearly 400kb) http://carputing.tripod.com/LS2-edit.zip [This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 02-13-2007).] |
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LS2-edit is available in two versions--licensed for a single PCM ($550) or licensed for unlimited PCMs ($2,995). If you order the single license version, you can also add a license for additional vehicles for $100 per extra vehicle. |
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One of are new used cars.    |
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So if the heads are "mostly unchanged" can you bolt them to a front wheel drive N* block? I am not asking about the accessories and such, just the head bolt pattern and chain drive cut outs. |
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Unchanged from the RWD cylinder heads. |
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No. The RWD VVT northstars have a larger oil pump due to the VVT system which makes them incompatible with any block that didn't have the VVT whether or not they physically bolt on. |
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Thank Ryan I had forgot the NO part. |
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Please more info? |
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We got a new STS V in. I was told it was ordered from someone. I have a couple of pictures right off the truck. . . .  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . OUCH fiberglass?  |
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