Good god, multi quoting on this bulletin board software is cumbersome!

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: Fair enough But if you really mean what you say, then don't project on me either. I did not say you were yelling, I used your comments against your projections on others. "Kinda seems like" isn't exactly what I call hard evidence. It just kinda seems like an observation? What exactly is "yelling" on a car forum anyways?

My apologies, the word used was "screaming" instead of yelling.

I... don't see where I was projecting anything, I simply asked questions and was met with a degree of hostility, which is a quick indicator of a lack of objectivity.

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: I know this is just semantics but you asked for "data" then asked what people use to come to conclusions, as if people do not use opinions to form conclusions? If you ask for "data" on economic confidence, you will never get an answer. Quite literally economic confidence is based on people's opinions. That article has both hard data and opinions and you rejected the notion of commenting, outside calling this forum an echo chamber. You know you can brake the cycle by offering your objective opinions and then back it up with examples of "data".

I don't necessarily have an opinion here. I just reviewed several threads and there's a lot of really broad, significant claims, but it's pretty consistent that there's no data linked. Most of what I see linked is extremely biased opinion blogs. I was wondering if the conclusions being reached are being reached based *purely* on opinion, or if there was any data I'm not seeing that people use to reach these conclusions.

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: Ok, I do not disagree. But like I have said, you aren't doing any of this yourself. It is a perfectly respectable position to take, I am willing to say that many people in this "echo chamber" echo your desire for more factual and unbiased data for the betterment of knowledge, understanding and opinion forming purposes.

I haven't really made any statements beyond "a lot of unsubstantiated claims get made here" and that "this place has become an echo chamber". For data, I can link a contextually-relevant definition of "echo chamber", it fits fairly well. Scrolling through the first few pages of O/T can substantiate the claim of "a lot of unsubstantiated claims get made here".

What is an echo chamber in this context? "In discussions of news media, an echo chamber refers to situations in which beliefs are amplified or reinforced by communication and repetition inside a closed system and insulated from rebuttal. By participating in an echo chamber, people are able to seek out information that reinforces their existing views without encountering opposing views, potentially resulting in an unintended exercise in confirmation bias. Echo chambers may increase social and political polarization and extremism." Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_chamber_(media)

Beyond a definition of an echo chamber, I don't know what claim you expect me to substantiate, as I haven't made any. I asked a question, and was either linked to opinion blogs, with unsubstantiated "data", or dismissed as "... a democrat". I'm not a democrat, but that's beside the point - it's an indication that this place does, in fact, match the description of an echo chamber. By asking a question, I am immediately seen as an outsider or challenger, instead of someone trying to gain insight.

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: And yet with all your posts to this point, you have accused, projected and assumed,....without providing any data, facts or numbers. I am open to your opinions, for debate and those requested facts, data and numbers do drive the debate in the right direction, but like you we all have an opinion and those will be expressed in ANY debate. So I am realistic enough to acknowledge this fact, are you?

Again, I've not made any accusations, no projections, though calling this place an echo chamber could be seen as an assumption, as I had failed at that point to define what an echo chamber was. I have since resolved that by adding a definition above.

I remember a span, years ago, when we could all engage in level headed, pleasant conversations in O/T, with the occasional spicy photo, home brewing setups, etc. I recently, after a long absence, picked up a low mileage Fiero to play with and keep miles off my alfa, and thought I would drop by - and I was *shocked* to see the closed-loop this place has become. Politics make everything gross and unmanageable, but that's all O/T appears to have become. This used to be a great community, but people can't drop the wild political gesticulation long enough to remember why we all came here in the first place. Because we like a weird, mid engined, sometimes pointy plastic car. Some stuff is still the same (randye is still the old man yelling at clouds :P ) but the overall tone of O/T "feels" pretty antagonistic.

I dropped by to see how things were going and... I'm not angry or upset, I'm more just disappointed. I thought our love of the little plastic fantastic was enough to keep people civil, but it really doesn't seem that way anymore.

[This message has been edited by FieroSTETZ (edited 08-16-2021).]

[This message has been edited by FieroSTETZ (edited 08-16-2021).]

CLICK FOR FULL SIZE

You may or may not be interested, but if you scroll backwards a small ways in this thread you can see my response.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 08-16-2021).]

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 08-16-2021).]

quote Originally posted by randye: Ironic how you whine and complain about how "antagonistic" this place is and yet how freely you stoop to personal insults...... .....even insulting someone who hasn't even engaged you in any discussion or debate. YOU are no better than what you accuse others of. By the way you pompous phony, YOU can also be dismissed as "yelling at clouds" as easily as anyone.

Oh come off it Randye, it wasn't an insult, it was tongue in cheek. Stop being so delicate. It was a reference to your propensity for gesticulating wildly and going off on tangents while randomly capitalizing and bolding things - which I recall started shortly before I sold my previous fiero, leading to a long absence before returning. If I wanted to be insulting, then I would say something deliberately insulting. My post was a reference that you were perhaps a bit of a mascot for O/T when I left.

Aaaaaand don't assume what I am or am not here to do. I'll generally state my intentions pretty plainly.
(also - ha! he's still got it, good old randye )

[This message has been edited by FieroSTETZ (edited 08-16-2021).]