I'm glad you used me for example.... because I'm gonna use me for an example too.

Cliff, I'm with you on whatever you decide to do. I think any banners is a bad idea (I'll explain why in a minute) but if you decide on banners, I'll be the 1st in line for a few.

Why am I against banners?.... Let me explain it like this.... Let's say I'm Joe Blow average Fiero owner & Let's say I'm a dedicated fan of 3.8 Fiero engine swaps. Let's say that one day I happen upon the Forum page and it happens that Archie's banner is being displayed. My immediate reaction would be that the site is owned by Archie or that Archie has influence to that site. We all know that wouldn't be try, BUT the PERCEPTION to the outsider is what counts. I've been to several other Forums and have considered joining a few of them but Advertizing banners etc. have kept me away from them. REMEMBER, the outsider, doesn't know that the banners don't signal influence until they have been here for a while.

Ok, so what do I think could be an answer to raising some funds or lowering costs?

Two things can be done to lower costs... immediately eliminate the O/T section and for the people that have more than one PFF screen name charge a $25/year membership fee for each additional screen name.

Since Cliff won't charge membership dues, (even though many would happily pay them) then I think that Banners are something that HAS to be done. However, to try to limit the potential negative impact that banners could have on the open style of this Forum, I advocate the following funding method.

We know that Cliff will not accept membership dues, I suggest that PFF'ers get together and make donations to a fund.... (We'll call it the "PFF Underground Members Fund" or "PFF u MF") this fund will inturn purchase as much banner space on Cliff's forum as it can. Simple as that..... I can see banners that say something like "This banner paid for by the members of this forum".

Another option for those who claim that they would be willing to pay yearly dues would be for a couple of members to get together and jointly buy a banner. It could say something like.... "the following 3 members of PFF, in an effort to keep this Forum free of advertizing bought this banner..."

Ok, that's my ideas.

Archie

Just brain-storming here, but have you considered making a new section for commercial vendors? Maybe make a section so that only they(paying "advertisers", I suppose) could initiate threads in that section, but once the thread has been opened all PFF members could add comments. This would add a forum dedicated to what people out there are marketing. I'm not sure the idea has any merit, but maybe it's something you can build on.

Archie,

You are a scholar and a gentleman. Billiant ideas, both of the ones you listed. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that Cliff won't go along with them - he said vendors afterall. But if he will go along, I want in to one or the other!

Hell, I offer to co-ordinate the fund. I would offer, however, that people would be more comfortable to send their money to a better known forum member. Whatever...perhaps someone else will step to the plate who is better known and trusted.

Andrew