Been slowing making progress on the LS4 engine work.

Since I am deleting DoD/AFM and had the engine torn down, I went ahead and tapped the DoD oil feed ports and capped them. While the non-DoD valley cover had o-ring seals for these I will feel better knowing they are capped.


I also tore down the heads and started cleaning them. They still have a couple more rounds of cleaning.


Installed the Smith Bros (no relation) bronze bushing upgrade for all the rockers. Then put them in an oil bath until they will be installed:



Also, pulled the new LS7 lifters out of the new parts stack and put them in an oil bath until they are needed as well.


I am not sure what took me so long... but I finally make a couple of braces to mount a drip pan to the engine stand.



The next several things I need to do are:
Finish cleaning pistons, heads, and block
Verify top ring gaps... need 0.022" minimum
Lap valves, install new valve seals, install BTR dual springs
Install new bearings

I have been pondering multiple paths forward from an ECM perspective. I am seriously considering swapping in a 24X reluctor on my crank so I can run the E40 ecm. Sad to say that in the 6 years since I did this swap, development on adding basic features to the E67 ecm (like direct wired AC request, cruise, and VSS input for manual transmission) haven't happened. Even the add on modules are still hit and miss.

If I stay with the E67 ecm (58X), I have 3 primary paths:
Keep the LS4 calibration (auto only), continue to use the TCM for the VSS signal, continue to use the AR module for cruise, and continue to run AC w/o the AC request... just like I have been doing that last 6+ years. This is by far the cheapest and easiest.
Switch to the TBSS calication (LS2/auto), use the TCM for VSS signal, direct wire the cruise, and run AC w/o the request signal.
Switch to the CTSV calibration (LS2/manual), eliminate the TCM and direct wire the VSS, use my AR cruise module, and run AC w/o the request signal.

Switching to the E38 ecm (also 58X) gets me to the same spot as the CTS-V option above.

If I go with the E40 ecm (24x), I could:
Switch to the SSR calibration (LS2/manual), eliminate the TCM, direct wire the VSS, direct wire cruise, and run AC with the request signal. It will still allow my flex fuel conversion and it still uses a traditional VE table vs. the coefficient equations in the E67/E38, which makes tuning easier and more precise. Overall this would be a cleaner factory install, allow removing some add-on modules, simplify the wiring, and save some weight. Cost to do the conversion is about $70 for a new 24X reluctor and 1X timing gear. I will have to fabricate a fixture to install the reluctor in the proper position (a tool is available, but is over $200). I will also have to get an E40 ecm loaded with the SSR calibration. Overall it will be more expensive and more work, but I think it is the best path forward...

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 01-01-2020).]

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: I am not sure what took me so long... but I finally make a couple of braces to mount a drip pan to the engine stand.

https://www.summitracing.co...ine-stand-drip-trays

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: I have been pondering multiple paths forward from an ECM perspective. I am seriously considering swapping in a 24X reluctor on my crank so I can run the E40 ecm. Sad to say that in the 6 years since I did this swap, development on adding basic features to the E67 ecm (like direct wired AC request, cruise, and VSS input for manual transmission) haven't happened. Even the add on modules are still hit and miss. If I stay with the E67 ecm (58X), I have 3 primary paths: Keep the LS4 calibration (auto only), continue to use the TCM for the VSS signal, continue to use the AR module for cruise, and continue to run AC w/o the AC request... just like I have been doing that last 6+ years. This is by far the cheapest and easiest. Switch to the TBSS calication (LS2/auto), use the TCM for VSS signal, direct wire the cruise, and run AC w/o the request signal. Switch to the CTSV calibration (LS2/manual), eliminate the TCM and direct wire the VSS, use my AR cruise module, and run AC w/o the request signal. Switching to the E38 ecm (also 58X) gets me to the same spot as the CTS-V option above. If I go with the E40 ecm (24x), I could: Switch to the SSR calibration (LS2/manual), eliminate the TCM, direct wire the VSS, direct wire cruise, and run AC with the request signal. It will still allow my flex fuel conversion and it still uses a traditional VE table vs. the coefficient equations in the E67/E38, which makes tuning easier and more precise. Overall this would be a cleaner factory install, allow removing some add-on modules, simplify the wiring, and save some weight. Cost to do the conversion is about $70 for a new 24X reluctor and 1X timing gear. I will have to fabricate a fixture to install the reluctor in the proper position (a tool is available, but is over $200). I will also have to get an E40 ecm loaded with the SSR calibration. Overall it will be more expensive and more work, but I think it is the best path forward...

I am actually in a similar situation.
Since my '93 Northstar block requires honing, which then requires new pistons and rings, I have been looking at upgrading to a 2006+ block. This gives me the chance either to keep my current 0411 OR upgrade to a 58x controller. I don't have the 24x option.
My big concern is drive by wire. I'm don't think that's accessible to me with the 0411, even though in theory it has the hardware to operate a DBW throttle. I currently have direct wired VSS, direct wired A/C and can switch to transducer-based compressor control in order to skip the Fiero safety switches using the Cadillac compressor.
If I switch up to a 58x computer, I can get DBW, but it sounds like the best I can do for the other functions is direct wired cruise via the TBSS OS.
Didn't the Pontiac G6 have a VSS in the F40? Is that not direct-wired to the ECM? Is that OS not adaptable to an 8 cylinder engine?

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 01-04-2020).]

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: If I am remembering right, Ryan was able to come up with a way to drop out the AC at WOT on Tom Slick's car (with E67). I would have to go digging way back in the PMs to find the info. I didn't bother and just turned it off before doing WOT runs. If you stay 24x, you could switch to the P59 series of ecms with the green/blue connectors or E40. Both are twice as fast at the 0411 and both will support DBW and electronic cruise.

I don't have the 24x option now.

For all years, the Northstar crank wheel is in the middle of the engine and integral to the crankshaft.

The '93-'99 Northstars use a 32x crank wheel with 2 crank sensors on the forward side of the block, a few degrees above and below the crank centerline. The cam sensor is on the right (rear) bank exhaust cam and reads a single peg on the cam sprocket. The 4 coil ICM reads these sensors and sends multiple 0-5V logic signals to the PCM. Those signals are: 4x crank reference, 1/2x cam reference and 24x constant pulse width misfire detection reference. The PCM sends back the timing control enable (I'm blanking on GMs name for it right now) and actual timing signals. The ICM delivers static ignition timing at 10 degrees until the PCM drives the timing control enable, then the ICM fires the appropriate coil when the PCM drives the actual timing signal low. The interface is actually similar to the 4.9's distributor interface, which is why a '7730 can run a Northstar in batch fire. The '0411 I have uses the "1998 Oldsmobile Shelby" .bin from the Shelby Series 1 to run a '93-'99 Northstar.

The '00-'05 Northstars use the same sensors and locations, but with a different trigger wheel, different cam sprocket, a Siemens controller and a coil-on-plug style coil pack on each bank. The coil packs and crank triggering systems are unrelated. This is the hardest type of Northstar to swap. The cam sprocket uses a raised ridge on 50% of its circumference to make a sensor signal that is high for one crank revolution then low for the next crank revolution.

The '06+ FWD Northstars have a 58x trigger wheel and a single crank sensor in the valley. That crank sensor is NOT directly above the crank. The cam sensor is in the same place, but I don't know what that sprocket looks like. I should be able to swap it to my heads, though.

What's the PN for the GM 24x wheel? Maybe I can machine a Northstar crank to accept it, and then orient it to work with the old style LS sensor in the valley of a '06+ block.
Did the LS9's use a different wheel? They use a sensor that has a longer "snout" than other LS sensors.
Do you have the OD of the GM wheel handy?

ETA: I just realized... I can solve this whole thing by installing a LINGENFELTER part on my Fiero!
https://www.lingenfelter.co...97.html#.XhX78UdKiEI



This converts a 58x crank sensor and 4x cam sensor into 24x LS crank sensor and 1/2x LS cam sensor pulse trains. I can build a 58x Northstar and then run any 24x LS controller with this.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 01-09-2020).]

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: The 24X reluctor wheel is #12559353 and has an ID of 3.965 and an OD of 7.128" The lingenfelter converter box will work, but for my swap I am trying to eliminate all the add on modules to work around issues.

Totally understandable for you, but the Lingenfelter box will work for *MY* swap!

I was looking up LS trigger wheels on the internet yesterday, and the ID is WAY too small to work on even a modified Northstar crank. I'd need something that looks more like a starter ring gear in order to modify a Northstar crank.
The wiring is going to be super fun because the Northstar is right bank forward, while the LS is left bank forward... They have the same firing order, but all the cylinder pairs are reversed.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 01-09-2020).]

quote Originally posted by qwikgta: found this on facebook in the LS4 page. not sure if it will work for the manual trans guys but maybe w/ some mods??? https://www.facebook.com/br...zA3OTQ4ODE2MDU4MDA2/ rob

He had this about 3 years ago, but looks like he is continuing to refining the solution.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/...40-non-ls-4t65e.html

My starter solution has been used on F23, F40, 4t65e-hd, 200R4 and a couple of others.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 01-15-2020).]