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| Blooze Own: An F355 Six Speed N* Build Thread (Page 99/126) |
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Bloozberry
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MAR 14, 08:59 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by seajai:
When I built my axles, I found a lot of cars used the 1.063" dia axle with the 1.024" 32 spline count. I just wandered through the pick and pull with a digital calipers and measured axles until I found the length with the dia I needed. |
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Thanks for the input but I'm not sure how you determined how many teeth were on the axle rods without pulling off the boots... something that the yards around here certainly won't let me do. I've found that measuring the axle rod diameter isn't a sure-fire way to determine what diameter and number of teeth are hidden under the boot. Lots of axles are turned down to a smaller diameter at the ends.
| quote | Originally posted by Will:
What thread did this come from? |
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www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000030.html
| quote | Originally posted by Will:
That's 26mm x 32 spline... on a 2.5mm module (Which is metric for "pitch") |
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Aha! That makes perfect sense. Thanks for that.
Thanks ccfiero... that was one of the many websites I checked out but either I'm blind, or they've changed the content of the website over the years since I could only find info on boots and spindle nut sizes no matter what topic from their front page that I downloaded. My biggest difficulty was finding specs on axle rods... still haven't found any.
I've had a few helpful people PM me with the parts they cobbled together, but again, without dimensions it's still a crap shoot. From my drawings, I estimate that I'll need an axle rod that is about 400 mm (15.75") long for the driver's side, and one that is about 490 mm (19.3") long for the passenger side. These are quite a bit longer than the typical Corsica, Beretta, Caddy axle rods that some have suggested, but I can't quantify the difference because axle rod lengths for those cars are the missing link. The exact lengths of my axle rods can't be determined either until I have the tripot joints and CV joints I plan to use since the depth of the tripot cup, the depth the tripot seats inside the transmission (or intermediate shaft), and the depth the CV joint seats in the knuckle bearing all affect axle rod length. Once I pick up my Cobalt SS axle assemblies today, I'll have everything I need to calculate how long my axle rods need to be. Then, if someone can suggest a source for an axle rod with the right splines and the right lengths, I could avoid having to cut and re-spline an old Fiero axle rod... but I'm not holding my breath!
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ccfiero350
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MAR 14, 11:02 AM
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Will
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MAR 14, 12:20 PM
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Custom axles can always be made by Moser, Driveshaft Shop, Raxles, Strange, etc. if you provide specs... not cheap though.
Who does the spline work? I have a BMW application that will require some custom splines.
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Will
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MAR 14, 12:28 PM
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Thanks. I'd glanced at that thread and saw the dyno plot at the end, but didn't see anything about 390 HP...
You're welcome.
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fieroguru
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MAR 14, 05:17 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Bloozberry:
Thanks ccfiero... that was one of the many websites I checked out but either I'm blind, or they've changed the content of the website over the years since I could only find info on boots and spindle nut sizes no matter what topic from their front page that I downloaded. |
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They must have downsized and only focus on VW axles now, but they used to have some of the best catalogs. They had pictures with overall axle lengths plus the spline info on both ends. Another of their catalogs showed the part # for the Tripod and CV ends by application and they also had catalogs with dimensioned pictures of the ends by part number and these show the actual axle shaft spline. Here is the Fiero outer CV diagram for example:
My process to narrow down axles is not very "precise" and takes time, but it works... mock up a stock Fiero axle or G6 or Cobalt Axle and determine how much "too short" it is and add this length to the compressed lenght for the axle you used. This gives you the needed overall compressed length. Then look at overall axle lengths that are +/- 1" of that length. Then compare the geometry (length & spline count on the actual axle shaft ends) of the tripod housings and CV joints and back into one that "should" have the right length axle shaft with the right spline.
For example with the various EMPIUS catalogs, you can find all tripods with the 34 spline to fit in a Fiero transmission, then match that part number to the applications for each, then take the applications and find the part # and compressed length for the entire axle and sort them by length. Here is a list of all the GM axles with a matching tripod for a Fiero transmission by length. I haven't taken the time to go through the list and seperate out the ones with 32 splines on the axle shaft and the wheel ends are various styles (small 33, 27 and large 33), but it does show the available lenghts for stock axles with atleast 1 matching end (for a stock transmission, not the F40).
code:
Length EMPIUS part #
27 ¼” 80-1315
26 7/8” 80-1305
26 ¾” 80-1425
26 5/8” 80-1400
26 ½” 80-1319
25 ¾” 80-1309
25 5/8” 80-1833
25 5/8” 80-1237
25 7/16” 80-1307
25 1/8” 80-1341
25 1/16” 80-1339
24 13/16” 80-1805
24 11/16” 80-1325
24 ½” 80-1435
24 ½” 80-1317
23 ½” 80-1393
23 3/8” 80-1377
21 ¼” 80-1329
I never thought to include the axles from other OEM's outside of GM, but EMPIUS catalogs list most of the common makes/models. If you would like I can email you all the EMPIUS catalogs and you can spend literally days sorting through the info...
| quote | Originally posted by Bloozberry:
My biggest difficulty was finding specs on axle rods... still haven't found any.
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Archie has a list of GM axle shaft lengths, you might PM him for the length you are looking for.[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 03-14-2014).]
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JayinMI
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MAR 14, 09:03 PM
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Weird. Since Empi was a big VW parts supplier, I was surprised to see they had an axle cross reference for any other axles.
That's what I knew them from was VW parts.
Jay
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Bloozberry
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MAR 14, 09:27 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Will:
Who does the spline work? I have a BMW application that will require some custom splines. |
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I still have to get the details, but the owner of one of the local machine shops told me of another local shop that has the ability to cut new splines cold. I live in farm-country with lots of machinery repair shops nearby. 
| quote | Originally posted by Fieroguru:
[EMPIUS] used to have some of the best catalogs. They had pictures with overall axle lengths plus the spline info on both ends. |
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Thanks Paul for that list... I should be able to follow your procedure to find an EMPIUS part number from your list with the correct overall length, then, assuming the axle rod will also be close to the length I need, I can cross reference the EMPIUS part number to the equivalent Interparts number using the extensive listings at www.interparts.com. From that same site there are tables that list the cars that use each of their part numbers. Once I know which cars have which axles, I can then go shopping in the salvage yard. In the mean time, I'll find out a bit more about how much it costs to get an axle re-splined... it still might be easier and cheaper to do that.
As promised, here are the rest of the photos showing how to disassemble a Fiero axle assembly. Similar to the CV end of the axle, I had to cut the two retaining clamps off the tripot boot. However unlike the CV joint, the tripot housing simply slides right off the tri-lobe roller assembly inside:
This is what the tri-lobe assembly looks like after cleaning the grease off it. You have to be careful when cleaning it because the large rollers can easily slip off the ends of their shafts along with the needle bearings which are not retained by anything except the stickiness of the grease.
To get the tri-lobe assembly off the end of the axle rod, you have to remove two snap rings. The first one is a large heavy ring that has to be opened up with snap ring pliers and slid away along the axle:
Only then can you expose the small snap ring hiding under the tri-lobe assembly by sliding assembly further onto the axle rod. The small snap ring is easily removed with a pair of small standard screwdrivers:
With the small snap ring removed, the tri-lobe assembly just slides off the end of the axle rod. Here are the pieces:
Since I had the CV and tripot joints for both the automatic and manual Fiero transmissions handy, I thought I'd show them side by each to give an idea how different they are in size, even though I won't be using either. Perhaps this will help someone choose the right joints for a future project. The manual transmission tripot joint is the more robust one on the left while the joint for the automatic is on the right:
Here are the CV joints... again, the manual CV joint is on the left (yellow) and the automatic CV joint is on the right (green):
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Bloozberry
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MAR 17, 08:58 PM
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I picked up both Cobalt SS axle assemblies a couple days ago for $310 total, including taxes, which seemed like a pretty good deal. When I ordered them from NAPA, I initially asked for the price difference between new and remanufactured axles. In their crazy cost structure the remans were $209 each unless I brought in cores which would lessen the price by $59. New axles were $137 each with no need for a core return. I just don't get it. Needless to say I went with the new axles. Here's the part number:
Here's what they look like out of the box:
Interestingly enough they're manufactured by Interparts... the company whose website I posted earlier and where I found some useful specs.
The exterior of the Cobalt CV joint is shaped slightly differently than the Fiero's, but all of the key exterior dimensions check out the same:
Most importantly, the Fiero rear wheel bearing slides onto the Cobalt CV joint spindle like it was made for it. A perfect fit!
Although I haven't removed the Cobalt CV joint's spider assembly, cage, and balls, they too appear to have the same dimensions as the manual Fiero CV joint with the exception that the Cobalt's CV spider has 25 splines for the axle rod, whereas the manual Fiero's has 32 (Fiero automatics have 29). For example, the Cobalt's cage measures 2.250" across, just like the manual Fiero CV joints (this is the Fiero's):
I'll expand on the significance of this later on as I summarize all of the possible ways to modify the Cobalt parts to fit any Fiero with an F40 transmission. In the meantime, here is quick comparison between the Cobalt and Fiero tripot joints. Notice how the Fiero joint is lobed and the Cobalt's is cylindrical. Also note how much larger the splines are on the Cobalt's stub shaft. The Cobalt's tripot stub shaft has 27 splines compared to the Fiero's 34. Bear in mind that the Cobalt SS uses the F35 five speed transmission, but it has the same tripots as the G6 F40 six speed transmission.
Enough comparisons... the next thing I needed to do was figure out how much longer my new axle rods must be than the Cobalt's. Tearing a page from Fieroguru's methodology, I first separated the Cobalt tripot from the axle assembly and cleaned up the grease.
Next, I seated the empty Cobalt tripot cup into the F40 driver's side differential:
I used a rubber mallet to make sure it was completely seated... here's how deep it sits:
Next, I took the remains of the Cobalt axle and shoved the CV joint into the knuckle until it seated hard against the backside of the bearing:
Here's how much too short the Cobalt axle is:
Although it's pretty straight-forward, I'll be able to accurately calculate how much longer my new axle rods have to be by continuing with Fieroguru's approach in my next post. (Thanks Paul for the idea!)[This message has been edited by Bloozberry (edited 03-18-2014).]
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Danyel
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MAR 17, 10:30 PM
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Blooze .... I am REALLY reading this carefully...... as you probably know I'm gathering parts and info to do my F40 to SBC swap.... your write ups are FABULOUS thanks for all the work and info you are sharing in this excellent thread ...KUDOS to you
Danyel
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Will
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MAR 18, 06:59 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by Bloozberry:
In their crazy cost structure the remans were $209 each unless I brought in cores which would lessen the price by $59. New axles were $137 each with no need for a core return. |
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The new ones may be made out of the finest Chinese lead... be careful. Other people have had problems with new and reman aftemarket axles being much weaker than the stock ones.
| quote | Originally posted by Bloozberry:
25 splines for the axle rod, |
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What's the OD of that shaft?
| quote | Originally posted by Bloozberry:
Also note how much larger the splines are on the Cobalt's stub shaft. The Cobalt's tripot stub shaft has 23 splines
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What's the diameter of that shaft? 
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