Back for another couple days with the car.

I'm thinking this is good for a new ride height. Ha! Yea, right.
Car is going up into the air for one a the last few times.


I mounted the front calipers and attached the brake lines. They went on without a hitch in any way. It was actually a little boring. Looks good though.


While I was doing that dad was working on removing the old rear brake lines. He apparently had a "special pair of pliers" that he usually uses for that job. He never mentioned them while I was tearing my knuckles last time. With some heat (mapp gas) and some WD40 he was done in no time.

Once the calipers were mounted and everything torqued down, and double checked front and rear, I removed the master cylinder. I was in desperate need on cleaning and we wanted to use DOT 5 for the brake fluid. The master was taken to the shop next door and dissassembled, cleaned, and put back together. Looks like I forgot to get a picture of the finished product.






I took it back over and installed it. Then the rear lines were installed. This was a little trickier then the front. The lines were stlightly too short to reach in the stock position. I simply turned the mounting bracket and rebent the hard line a bit. It was very easy and not even worth worring about. Drilled one whole and mounted everything else as usual. I double check with a floor jack that they would not be a problem and full suspension up-travel. No worries.

The whole system was them blead and pressure checked (leak down test). Everything tested out well and they have perfect travel and feel to them. One other thing... Those Solo Bleeders are great! I will be using them on all of the fieros from now on. They let the air and fluid out but don't let it back in so it is very easy to do all by yourself. Since I had help I got the see them in action. DOT 5 does not eat paint like DOT 3 does so there is little worry about spilling a little. It also has a higher boiling point. The clutch system was also blead and refilled with DOT 5. I was suprised at how soft the SPEC clutch is. It should be a good clutch for street use. We'll make the final adjustments later when the car ready to get on the road.






I tried out a set of 86-87GT wheels. Unfortunately, in my application, they did not fit on the rear. I did not even bother to try them on the front. They may fit using stock brake lines but since the Russel brakes were already done I didn't check for sure.


We decided to make a final adjustment to the exhaust system. The cat was sitting about a 1/2 below the cradle from out initial build of it. Both pipes were moved and shotened to bring up the cat. The whole system was them wrapped with black header wrap to help keep the heat in the pipes and out of the engine bay. Damn, it looks good on the car.

Next we got started on the plumbing. I worked on the coolant lines while dad started work on the fuel lines. For the fuel lines we are using stock fiero V6 hard lines adapted to short sections of stainless 4 adapters and -6AN tube fittings and ferrels are used to adapt the fiero hard lines and caddy fuel rail. The flex in the system is the stock rubber tubing. Dad bent the tubing and attached the lines. It turned out pretty good even though dad is not very good with the tubing bender. Dad did a good job but would like to see something a little different. I have another 18ft of the line so I may come up with something a little different for the final product. I may get a couple different fittings and run it directly to the fiero flex lines. If anyone wants the part numbers of the fittings and line used let me know and I'll post them.




I worked on the coolant line for a while. Though there is only 4 places to attach the hose, each one had to be modified in some way to make it work. For the main hose from drivers side coolant tube (inlet) I used a stock 2.5 fiero line (drivers side 85). It was then attached to another short section of hose elbow that was cut off the passenger side 2.5 hose. It was connected to the CSR inline filler. The part number is in my rebuild thread. I used a radiator cap with a temp gauge in it to cap it off. The whole in the filler for the overflow tube was also plugged. I fixed the filler and the 2.5 hose to the engine bay wall using two rubberized mounting clamps. The last section of hose that goes to the engine is the upper section of the caddy hose I believe. Honestly I can't remember where I got it from.




Some of the un-pictured things that were done was the connection of the heater core lines. 5/8 hose was used for these and a gentle bending of the fiero under car hard lines was required for what we felt was proper clearanse of the front exhaust manifold. The conection to the water pump was made. The conection that goes to the thermostat housing was run through the stock fiero tube that runs along the frame rail by the stock battery mounting location. The connection to the trunk wall was also a stock fiero tube. I believe it sits on the firewall in a stock fiero. There is a vaccum line that is brazed to it along with a couple mounting tabs. The end was cut off and flared and a 2"1/2"x5/8" section of hose was used to connect the two tubes. The vaccum tube part was retained and may be used to conect the vaccum canister later. This tube has not been attached to the trunk side wall yet as you can barely make out in the pics. The last section of hose is stock caddy hose. It is an adapter hose that has two different sized ends. Using this hose is probably the best solution IMO so if pull a 4.9 don't forget to grab it.

The passenger side coolant tube was also from the same 85 2.5 car. The last 90 degree bend in the hose was cut off and used as the connection to the inline filler on the other side. After the hose was cut it fit with no other modifications.

Some of the vaccum lines were attached but soon time ran out and it was time to clean up and go home.

Oops. Girlfriend just called... Seems she locked her keys in the car and I have to go get her. Be back soon to finish the update...

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 02-17-2008).]

Wow. It was a crazy weekend. Got so much exciting stuff to talk about I don't know where to begin.

The most exciting part right now is.... I am buying the Mr Mikes seats from Troyboy. What was once in perfect union will soon be in "perfect union" with my car. I'm still in shock, but very happy. I can tell you I look just like this smiley right now. Here is a pic that Troy had posted in his thread. I'll get more when the seats come in.

They are the style and color I would have picked if I bought from Mr Mike myself so it could not be more perfect for me. Well, they could have had seat speakers or the cut-outs for them but its OK. I will do something else instead. Maybe I'll use those chiseled holes in the firewall for something afterall.

I did have some bad news this weekend. I found out yesterday that what I thought was the 4.9 ECM actually turned out to be the BCM. Seems to be a pretty common mistake now. I found a new one at the wrecking yard and have since remidied that problem. Its funny the Caddy BCM looks almost identical to the fiero ECM. The caddy ECM looks like this for future referance. You want the ones with Serv. # 16132240. 91 to early 93 according to Aaron. Aaron's chips work with these ones.

Make sure the one you pull has 3 plugs. One green plug and two black.

When pulling it from a caddy it is located on the passenger side behind the glove box, on the firewall, towards the passenger fender. They are mounted lower then the glove box. After doing it a couple times I can tell you it is MUCH easier to get at it from under the dash and NOT through the glove box. Below are a couple of shots of the ECM as it sat in the 91 deville. I also pulled an extra chip from a 91 seville ECM. It sits a bit differently in a 91 seville and are actually easier to get at FYI. I thought it would be a good idea for tuning purposes. I can send one chip off while the other is still in the car. Sorry I didn't get pics of the seville.
To pull the 91 deville you remove the cover under the dash, remove the single 10mm nut on the left side of the ECM (as pictured below, second pic, lower left), and once unplugged it will drop out the bottom. In a seville it is similar but you have to pull it down half-way before you can remove the nut. It also drops out the bottom. When done this way they are very simple to get to.
For the wiring you can take apart the connector that goes to the engine wiring harness. It is located next to the ECM and is also in the pic below (top left, second pic, grey connector). One 7mm bolt holds it together. Where I cut the ECM harness in the ECM pic above should be plenty of wire to get the job done. I cut it above the tunnel just beyond the ALDL plug. If you take your time you can pull the engine and ECM harnesses out in one unit and make wiring even easier. The only cut needed is the one I did next to the ALDL plug. Thats it. Everything else needed will come out by being unbolted or un-clipped.
Mine will be a bit harder since I had to learn this along the way and will be wiring mine in a way that will hide as many wires as possible. I also made some unnecissary cuts to the wires for asthetic purposes. I can't remember where the vats is as I never had any intention of using it or trying to bypass it. Sorry I can't help there. One other tip I can give if pulling the harness from a wrecking yard. Pull the dash and get at all the wiring you can. The wiring and loom under the dash will be in almost perfect condition since it has been inside the car its whole life. The engine bay stuff will be filthy (they always are) and possibly broken or eaten away by battery acid. This may seem like a bunch of work but can pay off in the long run if you happen to need additional connectors, wire, good loom in assorted lengths, or modules. There is a factory keyless entry module in some caddy's that works with this ECM amungst other items.



I also managed to find a compact spare that I am pretty sure will work with the vette rotors. It came from a 96 Subaru Legacy. It is a 16x4 compact spare with a 135/70-16 tire on it. Bolt pattern is correct and the center bore looks to be correct as best as I can tell from my metric tape measure. I did try it out on the fiero that was at the yard and it fit great. I was only able to try it out on the rear of an 88 coupe though (this eliminates the rear as a problem with my particular build. ). Until I get a chance to try it out on the car next weekend I won't know for sure if it will work or not. Clearance is my biggest concern right now but it "should" be fine. For 10 bucks its worth it to find out for sure.



I also got started on the wiring by tearing apart the 4.9 harness. I seperated each connector and cut them with as much wire as possible on each one. I cut them right at the caddy passthrough connector. I then coiled everything up for next weekend when the wiring starts. This is not necissary unless, like me, you want to hide as many wires as possible. I have seen others actually use the caddy harness as it is and route it around the engine bay to hide all the wires. There are many ways to do it and personal preferance is what makes yours unique. Here is what I have so far...
4.9 harness on top 2.5 fiero harness on bottom.

4.9 harness

4.9 harness with loom, mounting tabs, and some tape removed.

Here is the finished job. Everything coiled and ready to be run the way I see fit. The two connections on the right have fusable lins in them which I did not break apart. Hopefully I will be able to keep them intact for this install.

I will route everything one connector at a time to get it the best I can and hopefully have it look factory when done.

I harvested the c203 connector, fiero passthrough connector, and c500 connector from the 2.5 harness. Here is a pic of the c203. Again I kept as much wiring intact as possible just in case. I did not find any wires that went directly from the c500 to the c203 on this harness. I'll find out next week if any need to be added. Wires were cut at the passthrough and fiero ECM plugs to keep as much as possible. If one were so inclined one could freeze the harness and break the glue inside of the passthrough for more wiring, especially coming from the c203 connector (a hammer works well). At the moment I see no reason to do that though.


I also contacted Aaron about the chip and will be sending out the seville chip I got for programing tomorrow. Even if I do finish wiring the car this coming weekend I doubt the chip will be done and make it back in time. So starting the car will have to wait for a bit longer. I won't rush the wiring either way. It will be triple checking everything as I go to help avoid those startup wiring issues.

One other thing to add. Dad just picked himself up a new set of tubing benders with all the proper tools (flares, bead flares, crimps) to do true 4.9 to V6 fiero fuel line. We will be re-making the fuel lines to go directly from the caddy fuel rail to the V6 fiero rubber lines. We now have all the proper tools to do the job right. We are tossing around the idea of making up and selling sets of pre-bent stainless fuel lines. If you are interested let me know so we can make a final decision on whether to make them or not. For those interested I will be testing the first set on my car so you can see how they are made and if they are something you would be interested in. IMO, the stainless steel lines will look 1000% better then and braided line does. It also won't cut your fingers and will take the install work out of the job. The quickly done short sections that we did earlier in this thread will show something for now. They should also be less $ to make them especially if we are able to re-use the caddy and fiero fittings like we should be able to. I can also make them using -6AM fittings. 4 adapters will be needed if done this way (~40 dollars). There are benefits and drawback to both methods. Input would be great to help me decide the best route to go.

More to come soon. Getting real close now.

EDIT: Forgot one thing. A new mod is being added to the car. While at the yard and looking at the 88 coupe I noticed that the gas tank was already out of the car. Apparently they pull all tanks when the cars come in. 25 bucks and its mine. It had the pump and sending unit in it still. This is the 11.9 gal 87-88 tank. I will be grabbing it tomorrow and doing this conversion also. I have not decided yet but I may upgrade the pump while everything is out. Guess that pretty much covers it for what can possibly be rebuilt on this car. With the exception of the steering components that is, everything else has been gone through. I will get to those later, if needed. Later.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 02-24-2008).]

Got a bunch more done this weekend.

First thing I got started on the spare. I posted the details in this thread...
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/065950.html

Next up I swapped the gas tanks. This is not a hard job though it is time consuming. Not quite sure why some people think the larger tanks don't fit in early cars either. Oh well.



For some reason, that I still can't figure out, one of the previous owners had spliced into the fuel pump power wire. Since there was no reason for it to be there I took it out and reattached the wire. It was also a good thing that I dropped the tank. The fuel pump had been replaced but they did not put in the rubber piece that the pupm sits on. This and they used a cheap pump without the rubber sleeve to help with the sound. Both of these problems were corrected before the pump was re-installed.

As for the tank swap, it was not a tough. I re-used the stock 84-86 rear tank strap. It was a perfect fit and needed to modification at all. The front strap was a different story. I had both the 84-86 and 87-88 front straps and both were too short to work. Since I also had an 87-88 rear strap I decided to shorten it to complete the install. I cut it right past the folded part at the end. Folded it over again and re-drilled a new hole. Thats it for the install of the larger tank in an earlier car. If you decide to do this I would recommed starting with another 84-86 rear strap to modify. They are a bit different and much easier to work with and find.

Dad had done some work on the exhaust while I was away. He re-shaped the under car pipe to better fit it into position. He also managed to give himself a nasty cut on his right hand. Aparently that heat shield for the trunk is very sharp when you are trying to put on the exhaust springs and the pliers slip. I felt bad about it being Dad it didn't slow him down, the swelling never went down either. Dad had only tacked the pipe so it had to be removed to be fully welded. While it was out we welded on the stock fiero spring tab also. The pipe was zinc primered and finally wrapped with the left over exaust wrap. There was not enough to do the whole pipe so just the center section that runs under the oil pan was done.

Work started on the exhaust tips. We quickly decided that the resonator tips I bought were not going to work the way they were. Problem was they used 1.75" pipe in the "Y" portion of it. I believe this will too restrictive for what is suppose to be dual 2.5 outlets. This section was removed and a set of SE V6/Formula tips were used to make the new tips. All 4 resonators were cut off and welded on the the cut sections of the fiero tips. Here are some shots of the process. Keep in mind they still need to be painted and polished.




We used exhaust hangers for a fiero though neither of us could tell you which year. Some tweeking was required. The exhaust is comeplete and on the car but will still need to be adjusted to be perfect. I'll post pics when the job is done.

Thats it for the pics this time but I did get a lot of the small details done...

-Cooling system is done and double checked. All hose clamps tight and overflow tank installed. Radiator hold down removed, cleaned and re-installed. Rubber shroud re-installed.
-Front tub, jack mount, jack, and washer fluid tank were installed. Basically everything under the hood.
-Positive battery cable run from front mount battery tray to starter and on to the c500 connection. We used everything provided by Norm with his kit. Worked perfectly and I think there will be enough left over for the negative cable.
-Coilovers were raised about and inch to adjust ride height and give the car a slightly "raked" look.
-Temporary rear cradle bolts were replaced with the correct ones from the junk yard 88. The front cradle bolts were also finally tightened for the first time since this install started. The motor should not be coming out again bafore its on the road.
-The ball bolts (whatever they are called) that attach the shift cables to the transmission were replaced with the correct ones. The isuzu cables did not have any when I got'em and the ones I had were the wrong size. The 88 also robbed of these. This was the first chance to get a feel for Rodneys shifter and I LOVE IT!!. Nice short throw and a positive snap into gear. This is going to be one very nice shifting car when its on the road. No matter how long the tranny lasts.
-The EGR silonoid was installed in what I think is the stock position. I made a vacume line to go to the EGR using a 90 degree rubber elbow to a piece of plastic vacume line to a straight rubber piece. All parts we re-used caddy parts. I'll post pics later.

While back at the house later that night I worked more on prepping the wiring harness. The c203 was double check to make sure the wire color and position was correct. So far so good.
The ECM connectors were also double checked. I removed the un-necissary wires including everything related to cruise control, AC, and auto tranny.
The c500 was double checked to make sure it had enough wires for the install. Sice I pulled it from a 2.5 I wasn't sure.
Now all the wiring is ready to go for the next trip down.

I sent off the chip last week to Aaron (stickpony on this forum) to be programed. It should be back within the next week.

The seats will be here tomorrow and I will post pics when I can. I still look like this when I think about them.

Its getting very close now. I was trying to get everything done that was under the hood and under the car. Except for the oil cooler lines that was accomplished. Hopefully there will be a startup video very soon. Later.

EDIT: Someone had asked that I post the part number for the fuel fittings that I had used. I was having trouble finding the invoice. Found it with the car then... left it there. I will give Dad a call tomorrow and have him give me the numbers. I will post them with the seat pics. Everything was found on summitracing.com FYI. Its best to search by department-plumbing.

Stock fitting sizes are...
Caddy fuel rail: Two male 14mm saginaw O-ring fitting. Both sides are the same size.
Fiero V6 flex lines: One male 14mm saginaw O-ring fitting for return. One male 16mm saginaw O-ring for pressure.

If you choose to re-use the fiero V6 hard lines you will need female fittings for the fiero ones.

You can get adapters in these sizes if you choose to go with AN style connections. -6 AN is the size you want. You also have a choice of hard line , braided stainless and others. I prefer hard line cause I think it looks better and the -6AN fittings are much cheaper. 6 dollars total compared to 40. Stainless hard line is also cheaper then braided. I also recommed NOT using alluminum line if you can avoid it. Not for fuel at least. If you can't bend tube, go braded.

I will use the lines I have at first but eventually I will re-make them without the fiero hard lines in there. I will make them out of the same stainless tubing but use the stock fiero and caddy fittings for space savings. I checked out Dads new tool. Every crimp, flare, and bulge you can think of is in there. He even made a couple just for fun. We can re-make fiero lines easily now. 4.9 swap lines will not be much of a problem either. I'm working out some details to see what we can come up with. Anyone interested?

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 07-27-2010).]

Damn. Just found something I missed for the tank swap.

I forgot the expansion tank. It had me a bit confused while I was working on it. Aparently when the previous owner put in the 88 V6 motor they also changed out the sending unit. The 87-88 sending units are different in that they have a extra tube coming out that connects to the expansion tank. When I looked under the car there was one tube hanging down that didn't go anywhere. I figured it was a vent not really thinking much about it. Wonder if the previous owner had a problem with dissapearing gas?

Good thing I figured it out. Could have been a nasty fire with the cat so close by and me switching to a tank that needs an external expansion tank. It feels good to save a fiero like this one. With all the little problems fixed its going to be a pretty nice car. Previous owners suck!

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 03-02-2008).]

Update time again. Been a busy week so its a little late in coming.

First thing I had to do was finish up the tank swap. For this I needed to install the expansion tank and lines. It is not a direct swap in this case either since the 84-86 cars did not have or need the expansion tank. The tank mounts on the passenger side under the rear inner fender well. On the 87 and 88 cars there are holes drilled for the tank. 84-86 do not have these so you have to put them in. Without removing the rear clip you cant get all 3 drilled. 2 should work just fine for now. I will add the third when I do the fastback conversion. Other then the mounting holes it fits without any other trouble.


There are some other differences you have to take into consideration when doing the tank swap. On the passenger side near (under) the battery tray is a hole in the sheetmetal on the 87-88 cars. This hole is there for the lines that run to and from the expansion tank. You have to drill or cut out a hole there for the lines to go through. There is no other way that I found. I chose to drill a hole and used a rubber gromit to seal it and protect steel lines.

There are 2 lines that run to and from the tank. One line goes to the tank and connects to the sending unit line. This the line that the expanding fuel travels through to get to the expansion tank. It is the larger and lowermost of the two lines coming out of the tank.

The second line runs to the Vapor (purge) canister. I'll be adding this later. I'll be using the ECM controled caddy one.
Anyways for this second line you can run it in the stock poition without a problem. Course I couldn't. I am relocating the vapor canister to where the stock fiero cruise usually is. This meant that I had to do some major bending to the line to run it around the opposite side of the engine bay. It runs right up to the trunk wall and connects to other line pictured above that runs with the coolant line for the heater core.

Thats it for the 84-86 to 87-88 tank swap. Sounds like alot but its really not a big deal. I'll summarize...

-Main tank: Use 84-86 rear tank strap for rear. I used a modified 87-88 rear strap for the front. I cut off, fold and redrill strap to fit front. Main tank done.
-Expansion tank: Drill mounting holes. Drill hole for lines to pass through. Attach tank and lines, add vapor canister. Done. Hope this helps some out there who have wondered how hard it would be.



Next up I finished up mounting the oil cooler. I decided to mount it under the drivers side quarter panel.


We decided to make some mounting brackets out of some scrap stainless we had lying around. It was one piece 1" wide and 19" long cut in half. Bends were made and the holes were drilled. Nothing special and you will never see it once the inner fenders are installed.








Looks pretty good in there. Would look even better with a better scoop.

The lines that run to it were easy also. I had grabbed an assortment of oil lines from the caddies at the yard so we found two of those that would work. Both had to bent slightly to clear the exhaust, shift cables, and slave bracket. The ones we used were close just needed a bit of tweaking. 5/8 rubber pressure line was used to connect to the oil cooler. About $3 dollars total.



Car is pretty much ready to drive. So I started on the wiring.

First thing I did here was mount the ECM. This is not as simple as you might think. The 85 ECM holder did not work. The caddy ECM mounts perfectly in an 87-88 Duke ECM holder. If you don't have one, you'll need it. Here is a pic of the ECM and the two holders. You want the one on the left.


There is a difference in how they mount. Nothing more then drilling 4 holes. I used self tapping screws. Made it a snap.



With the ECM mounted I went at the harness. I am using the caddy engine to dash connector as a quick disconnect for the engine. This makes my harness look a bit different but the same wires go to the same spots. Here is what you need for the interior. I connected all the wires together but had not cut anything to length in this pic. That was done in the car.


3 ECM plugs. Should be 2 black ond one green. I used a 91 deville ECM so all the pins were correct and all I had to do was remove the ones that I was not using. Cruise, AC, auto tranny, VATS... all gone.

Fiero C203 connector. Everything needed is already there. Double check the pins but there is little to worry about. I think there were 12 wires total

ALDL connector.


Soldering iron, solder, flux, and heat shrink tubing. I used a small butane torch that happens to have a soldering tip. Works great and its cordless. You can also heat the shrink tubing without missing a step. $25 at wal*mart. I've had this one for years.


C203 first. With the ECM mounted I was able to cut all the wires to length and solder the connections. Make sure to slip the shrink tube on before soldering. One at a time.... just takes time. I'm not going into the details of which pin to which pin here. I will do a 4.9 wiring thread when it runs and is complete.


With the c203 done I moved to the engine bay. Since I am using the caddy connector I was able to do that on the bench. I went at the connectors one at a time cutting each one to length. I routed the wiring as hidded as possible. Here is a list of the connectors my particular install took.

Oil pressure sensor. This is the caddy connector. If you use an 88 fiero sender it will plug right in and screw into the caddy oil filter housing. This is the easiest way by far. You can use an 85-87 sender also but you will need to connector to go with it.

VSS connector. The Reverse light connector for Isuzu and Getrag trans also looks the same.

EGR silonoild

Coolant temp sender. This is a 3 wire unit out of a 92 Cavalier. 2 of the wires to to the ECM the other goes to the gauge via the C500. The TPS connector looks identical. It just has different color wires.

Plug to distributor.

Final mounting position on the MAP sensor.

MAP sensor.

Fuel injector connector. This has 10 wires total. 8 for the injectors and 2 for power.

Mounting position of the caddy C225 connector. I will also add the fiero passthrough connector.


I'll have to come back and edit this post later when I have my notes handy. Can't remember off the top of my head now.

I did not start on the C500 connector yet. I will be doing that next weekend so stay tuned. A first start should follow that shortly. Later.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 12-08-2009).]

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 12-08-2009).]