LS4 / F40 swap - fieroguru (Page 81/216)
fieroguru MAY 26, 06:32 PM
Just knocking out a bunch of little stuff.
Air/Fuel tune adjustments are pretty much complete for MAF and SD (just not for DoD).
Fixed the loose connection in the back of the instrument cluster that kept the fuel gauge and check engine light from coming on (from when I took it out and reinstalled in a couple weeks ago.
Cleaned all the windows with a scotch-brite pad and Windex. Car had been sitting for about 6-7 years so there was quite a bit of build up that just wouldn't wipe away. Now the windows are clear.
Bypassed the heater core... sprung a leak on the way to work last Monday. New one is on order, but wanted to be able to drive the car.
Made more progress with peel & sealing the inside of the b-pillars, the roof structure behind the sunroof opening and the underside of the roof panel (still need to do the rest of the roof).
Evac and charged the A/C system... works like a champ.
Searched high and low for my kahines GT style, notchie sail panels... no where to be found. I think some of my little helpers who were trashing boxes during the move might not have noticed them still in the box.

Still need to:
Install the lower rocker panel on the PS and attach all the round trim pieces.
Continue to tweak the cruise timing at 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 85 to maximize cruise fuel economy.
Replace the side mirrors (DS one is mangled and broke) and peel & seal the door frame.
Install my lateral link relocation brackets in the rear and re-align the car.
Order and install another set of sail windows.
Remove interior again so I can use the better dash, carpet and a few trim pieces from the 86 GT acquisition as they are in better condition than the ones in this car.
Install a passenger seat.
Buff the black paint on the car to make it looks as decent as possible. Some sections are pretty ratty... but not time/money for paint right now..
Good deep wash of the car... and the engine bay, it has been getting dusty/dirty with all the driving.
Dyno the car... so when people ask how much hp it has I will know for sure.

Then I will be ready for the 30th
Trinten MAY 26, 07:23 PM
Looks like you might be cutting it close for the 30th, impressive that you got so much done to such a high level of detail done in your spare time. I was talking with some other guys yesterday about your build and trying to get the DOD to play nice with a manual, they were impressed with the concept, and said they did not envy what you'd have to do to trick the computer(s) to play nice. lol
fieroguru MAY 27, 12:00 PM
Thanks!

I still have about a month before the 30th and the car is running/driving with a bout 1500 shakedown miles on the swap... which a worlds better than than my Ramjet build for my Wedding/2006 HRPT. I finished the swap, tore every panel off the car and painted them 3 days before going going on a 3000 mile road trip. I assembled the car, drove it in town for a 50 mile test drive and then took off.

The DoD side of things has been a pain. With HP tuners, I can't turn off a couple of key DTC's (like the ISS sensor) and with the code present, DoD will not activate. Maybe EFI Live or Tuner Cat II would have access to turning off the code, but presently that is the main hold up. A fellow PFFr (he can identify himself if he wishes) works with controllers and data via the CAN wires and is looking into options. He sent me a scanner tool that splices in the the CAN wires between the TCM and ECM and will log all communication data. Once I take several logs and send him the data, he will see if he has the right conversion file to read the data. Once we have access to the data stream, there are a few different options for adding a different controller to either replace the TCM entirely, or to act as an intercept/filter of the signals between the ECM/TCM, or use the controller to generate the needed signals to keep the TCM happy... lots more work to do and who knows if he can make something happen and how much it will cost me. DoD is the key to me getting 30+mph. Right now I am bumping the timing in the cruise ranges to improve on the 27mpg I got on my last trip. I would like the V8 tune to get 30mpg and the DoD to get me another 3-5mpg.

All I am working on at this point are cosmetic issues and if they get done or not, the car will be going to the 30th. We are leaving a few days early to go canoeing at Turkey Run - I used to go there every summer and my girls have never been. I will probably leave the LS4/F40 car in Indy at my sisters house as we pass through.

As for progress, I try to get something done or progress towards something each day after work but I usually take Thursdays and Mondays off to spend the evening with the girls. Saturdays and Sundays are the major opportunities for progress.

So far today I haven't done anything car related. Inflated a 10x5 pool for the girls, filled it, dug up a couple patches for flowers, pulled the patio umbrella and cushions from the attic... hopefully after lunch I will tear into the door panels/mirrors. I will be traveling for work Tues/Weds this week and Thursdays are booked... so after today not much will happen before next weekend.
fieroguru MAY 27, 10:10 PM
The mirrors and sound deading the doors took most of the afternnon, and they still are not back together.

Bare door:


Peal & sealed - my fingers are sore from pushing/forming it to all the recesses:


Busted up mirror and bent housing:


So now both doors are sealed and the new mirrors installed, but if you noticed the glue in the first pic what was holding the door panel... it was there because the metal clip that holds retaining pin in the upper corner was gone. So I ended up grabbing some other similar tabs and gluing them onto both panels... so now I have to wait for the glue to set before putting the door panels back on.



So I took the car out for another drive and remembered that I hadn't measured the temp of the decklid vents after a drive to see if the LS7 manifolds with their built in heat shields were helping to reduce engine bay temps. My old SBC swap with cast manifolds would see about 165 degrees on the PS vent and 135 on the DS one. After the drive today, the PS one was 142 degrees and the DS one was 104. The front and rear firewalls were between 175-180 degrees right across from the manifolds, so its safe to say the heat shields seem to be working as expected.
Kemp3 MAY 29, 12:44 AM
Curious with the new cam have you played with the injector timing ?

my motor seems to like a little later of an injection .
fieroguru MAY 29, 01:15 PM

quote
Originally posted by Kemp3:

Curious with the new cam have you played with the injector timing ?

my motor seems to like a little later of an injection .



Not yet. Might have to do some research if there are any benefits with changing it from the stock setup. The stock LS4 injector timing "Boundary" and "Normal End Of Injection Target vs. ECT" are the same between LS4, LS2, LS7 and LS3. However the LS4 "Normal EOI vs. RPM" is the same as the LS2, but different from the LS3 and LS7's. The LS4/LS2 is 0 degrees for all RPM's and the LS7 starts at 32 degrees at idle, reduces to 4 at 1100 RPM and then increases to 93 degrees by 4100 RPM (max of the table).
Kemp3 MAY 29, 09:21 PM

quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:


Not yet. Might have to do some research if there are any benefits with changing it from the stock setup. The stock LS4 injector timing "Boundary" and "Normal End Of Injection Target vs. ECT" are the same between LS4, LS2, LS7 and LS3. However the LS4 "Normal EOI vs. RPM" is the same as the LS2, but different from the LS3 and LS7's. The LS4/LS2 is 0 degrees for all RPM's and the LS7 starts at 32 degrees at idle, reduces to 4 at 1100 RPM and then increases to 93 degrees by 4100 RPM (max of the table).




in terms of benefits you would need very expensive equipment to quantify results. For me I adjusted till I got the richest AFR @ operating temp idle, then the theory is for every 1000 rpm increase you would want 40* added. After 4000-5000 rpms the timing has no real impact as the PW is so long it covers most of the valve duration. Seeing as how you don't have a stock cam I believe playing with injector timing could benefit you .

Once you have your hot idle timing dialed you can adjust your timing vs clt table, normally a cold engine would like to have the fuel sit on the back of the intake valve a little longer than a hot engine. Better fuel atomization.

in my setup my intake valve starts to open @ 385* and my injector timing at idle is 395*. For my tuning software that is 10* before the valve starts to open, In all reality the difference between 385 and 395 is so little vacuum is the only way I can really see it and that maybe 3 kPa . The point of reference for this is 360* is TDC of exhaust stroke. What I found most intersting in this is that with 51* of overlap it doesn't seem like I am sending unburned fuel out . I thought with the scavenging effect that it may do that . When I was testing this I had a injection time of 415* and that is a few degrees after my exhaust valve had closed. I believed that when that event occurred I would have the highest air speed into the cylinder. Datalogs have shown otherwise.

[This message has been edited by Kemp3 (edited 05-29-2013).]

fieroguru MAY 30, 05:19 PM
I did some research into the injector timing and it looks like it is something that needs changed. I do have a strong exhaust smell at idle and my camshaft does have a decent amount of overlap. Thanks for the tip!
fieroguru MAY 31, 10:33 AM
My camshaft has 59 degrees of overlap (.006 intake lobe open to .006 exhaust lobe closed) and 2 degrees overlap at .050 lobe lift. The factory ecms work backwards where you define the end of injection and the ECM figures out where to start based on all the various parameters. I added 32.5 degrees to mine so it ends in between the .050 and .006 exhaust closed values and add up to 152.5 degrees by 4K RPM. This seemd to do the trick as this morning the gas smell at idle was much less.
fieroguru JUN 01, 09:33 AM
Last night I took a more detailed look into the EOIT values to find the best offset to use at idle. My car already runs open loop at idle, so after the car was up to temp, I let it idle for 3.5 minutes per offset value while logging the data. I did this for 20, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55, 60, 100 and 150 degree delay in injector timing just to see the trend and to find the ideal offset value at idle.

I was supposed to have seen the A/F ratio go rich on the wideband as the injector timing became more beneficial, but the max/min of the entire range was 15.49 to 15.93. Without any injector offset, I was at 15.51, at 20 it dipped to 15.49, but from there on it was a small but constant increase to the lean side. There is only about 3% difference between the max/min, so I started to look at some of the other data I logged.

Delivered Torque is a calculated number from several sensors/inputs/calculations (air flow, fuel, ignition timing, etc). When I compared these values, the min was 31.41 (at zero offset) and it peaked at 34.83 @ 55 degrees of offset, then gradually decreased to 34.24 at 100 and 33.09 at 150 This shows a 10.8% increase in calculated delivered torque at the 55 degree setting. So that is where I have decided to set the offset at idle.

Finding the ideal offset values for the rest of the RPM range (idle to 4100 RPM) is difficult w/o a load based dyno. So to get something "closer" I looked at the LS7 tables as that is the highest revving factory LS(x) based engine and I figure GM did their work to find the ideal values for it (especially since they are actually using the RPM based table - LS4/LS2 have no RPM based offsets used). At idle the LS7 injector offset is 32.5 (vs. stock LS4) and gradually increases to 93 at 4100 RPM. So for my table, I started with 55, then used a similar gain rate as the LS7 to end up with 112.5 offset at 4100. My starting offset is 22.5 higher (more aggressive camshaft) and the ending offset is 19.5 higher... this should be better than no RPM based gain and should be in a beneficial range w/o going too far. Time will tell.

The downside to making this adjustment, is it requires going back and retuning the MAF/VE tables slightly, but if it helps with MPG and low rpm torque, then it will be worth it.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 06-01-2013).]