Northstar rebuild: Will style (Page 7/119)
bushroot FEB 08, 07:08 PM

quote
Originally posted by Will:

Oh yeah, the guy who's installing the external lube and such... Ok... I forgot who the "guy doing your trans" was...

Needless to say, F1 has changed a LOT since the early '80's. F1 engines were in the 10-12 thousand RPM range back then. Now adays they're using pneumatic pressure to close the valves.

http://www.indiacar.com/index2.asp?pagename=http://www.indiacar.com/nfs/technica l/pvengine.htm


And who developed the air bag system for valves?...Cosworth developed it. Still, not everyone is using the system. From what Terry says, it was originally used because it doesn't have the resonant frequency problems associated with traditional valve springs.

[This message has been edited by bushroot (edited 02-08-2004).]

Will FEB 20, 08:14 PM
Yay, progress!

I ordered a set of Eagle conrods from the ebay user "dynoflo1" today. They were $469 with free shipping. The pistons will be shipped off for Swain's TBC on the tops and PC-9 on the skirts on Monday. I was unfortunately unable to talk to either Ed or Kevin at Total Seal today, but I should be able to do that on Monday as well. I picked up $257 worth of gaskets from my local GM dealer. The spak plug O-rings came in packs of 5 (???). Still need: bearings, valvesprings, new piston pin locks, crank case sealant...

I will be having the assembly balanced of course... in the interests of expediency I bought a N* crank for $50 on ebay, and will be buying a block from Wcapman. I'll have the short block almost fully assembled when I go back to VA to work on the car.

I also spoke with Bud Adelman of Bud's Outback in AZ ( www.gr8grip.com ) about his new LSD which is similar to a Phantom Grip, only about 80% more effective. I'll have more on that when I get it on the road.

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'87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above

Luck is for those who lack the courage to define their own fate

jstricker FEB 20, 08:38 PM
Will,

I don't remember what those O rings cost, but they weren't much when I ordered them from gmpartsdirect. Because of the price, I ordered 8. Guess how many I have now?? If you'd have said something (or I'd have thought to ask) I'd have thrown you 8 in with the timesert set. I've also got an extra set of new timing chain guides I'd let you have for cheap (the two, long nylon ones, they come with the bolts.

John Stricker

quote
Originally posted by Will:

Yay, progress!

I ordered a set of Eagle conrods from the ebay user "dynoflo1" today. They were $469 with free shipping. The pistons will be shipped off for Swain's TBC on the tops and PC-9 on the skirts on Monday. I was unfortunately unable to talk to either Ed or Kevin at Total Seal today, but I should be able to do that on Monday as well. I picked up $257 worth of gaskets from my local GM dealer. The spak plug O-rings came in packs of 5 (???). Still need: bearings, valvesprings, new piston pin locks, crank case sealant...

I will be having the assembly balanced of course... in the interests of expediency I bought a N* crank for $50 on ebay, and will be buying a block from Wcapman. I'll have the short block almost fully assembled when I go back to VA to work on the car.

I also spoke with Bud Adelman of Bud's Outback in AZ ( www.gr8grip.com ) about his new LSD which is similar to a Phantom Grip, only about 80% more effective. I'll have more on that when I get it on the road.
Howard_Sacks FEB 20, 08:56 PM
It has been explained to me that F1 cars use have actual valve springs. They use the air to prevent float at high RPMS.


quote
Originally posted by Will:

F1 cars have the absolute minimum valvetrain mass, as jstricker says. Also, I'm sure that VERY, VERY few people have ANY real knowledge of F1 valvespring rates. I would be pretty surprised if "the guy doing your trans" is one of those people, unless he has a lot of other qualifications.
I thought they closed the valves pneumatically anyway. If they do use springs, F1 springs are going to be tapered and behived and wound with oval wire and all the other tricks to get max revs from minimum spring rate.

AJ's website claims that his springs work with stock retainers, which means they are most likely not tapered. Northstars also have hydraulic lash adjusters that reciprocate with the valve. They add a bit of mass and F1 engines CERTAINLY will not have them.
Will FEB 20, 09:04 PM

quote
Originally posted by jstricker:

Will,

I don't remember what those O rings cost, but they weren't much when I ordered them from gmpartsdirect. Because of the price, I ordered 8. Guess how many I have now?? If you'd have said something (or I'd have thought to ask) I'd have thrown you 8 in with the timesert set. I've also got an extra set of new timing chain guides I'd let you have for cheap (the two, long nylon ones, they come with the bolts.

John Stricker


I was going to use the chain guides that are in the engine currently, but if I can get new ones from you, why not?
I just thought it odd that two packs of N* spark plug o-rings will o-ring a V-10.

------------------
'87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future

jstricker FEB 20, 10:03 PM
Yes, the logic of an accountant was in play here, no doubt. I'll go back and see what they cost, but they weren't outrageous, and I'll make you a heck of deal on the guides if you want them. I'll send you an email tomorrow from the shop.

John Stricker

quote
Originally posted by Will:


I was going to use the chain guides that are in the engine currently, but if I can get new ones from you, why not?
I just thought it odd that two packs of N* spark plug o-rings will o-ring a V-10.
Will FEB 23, 10:25 AM
Ordered Total Seal rings today. Modified Max-Seal set with gapless top ring and Napier 2nd ring, along with assembly lube and whatever their cylinder molykote stuff is.

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'87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future

86 FIERO GT FEB 23, 10:47 AM
Will, what is the advantage with the total seal kit? My other question is would be whether you goin to have the cranks, rods and pistons spun balanced like they come from the factory?

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Will FEB 23, 11:02 AM
Total Seal gapless rings should seal better than a normal ring with conventional gap. I also had them put together a Napier scraper profile 2nd ring for oil control.
If I were putting together a stock rotating assembly I might or might not have it balanced, but since I'm usign Eagle rods which do not weigh the same as the stock rods, I MUST have the assembly balanced. More on that when I get it done.

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'87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future

Rickady88GT FEB 23, 11:25 AM
Will you said that the H lash adj's reciprocate with the valve train, but on my S* the hydraulic lash adjusters are set in the head casting and is just a pivit point. So I wonder if this is a change on the Y2K N* also or a S* only valve train? Dose anyone have pics of the Y2K N* vale train? With less valve train mass the RPM's could go higher without valve floting, if GM used the same rate spring ratios on the S* as they used on the pre Y2K N*.

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Rickady88GT QuadCam 3.5 V6