LS4 / F40 swap - fieroguru (Page 6/216)
fieroguru DEC 29, 11:16 AM

quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Don't forget the LSX and LSA.

But to be more specific, the LS4 block is the only small block V8 from GM to ever be in a FWD vehicle, and the only one that will mount to the FWD Metric pattern directly. And it's not very likely that GM will produce a new small block V8 like that anytime soon. If you want a V8 that bolts straight up to the GM FWD Metric transaxles, your only choices are LS4 or Northstar. And both will require some small modifications to any manual trans.

Just thought I'd post in case anyone wanted to come ask about any other V8 possibilities for a direct bolt up.



It gets alittle confusing when you specify FWD, since there were longitudinal FWD applications that used V8 engines (both big and small block configurations) but all had the BOP pattern, not the Metric pattern.

The LS4, N* (and its sister the Aurora 4.0), and the 4.1/4.5/4.9 pushrod caddilac V8s are the only V8 engines that use the Metric pattern. All other V8's will require an adapter plate of some sort.
Raydar DEC 29, 01:48 PM

quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
...
The LS4, N* (and its sister the Aurora 4.0), and the 4.1/4.5/4.9 pushrod caddilac V8s are the only V8 engines that use the Metric pattern. All other V8's will require an adapter plate of some sort.



Well... not exactly. Gotta have deep pockets, though.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/113449.html
Don't want to hijack.
dobey DEC 29, 03:08 PM
Interesting, Raydar. I guess that is an option if you want to go that route. And I did forget about the 4.x Caddy V8s. Sorry.
Seanpaul DEC 29, 05:41 PM

quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:


The LS4 is the only LS based engine with the FWD Metric pattern and is the only LS based engine that will bolt directly to the typical fiero transmissions including the F40. The LS1, LS2, LS3, LS6, LS7 and LS9 will all require an adapter plate.



I have a nice LS1 out of a 99 corvette. Was hoping for an Archie kit for an install next year. But you mention "FWD Metric pattern" ..doest the mean that the rotation of the engine is so that in FWD position, it can be moved to the rear of the Fiero? Does the Corvette C5 Ls1 rotate in a direction so that it cannot be moved to the back of a Fiero and be used with an F40 or Getrag?

I was also told that i can flip the intake so on that LS1 engine as well, is that true?
fieroguru DEC 29, 06:07 PM

quote
Originally posted by Seanpaul:


I have a nice LS1 out of a 99 corvette. Was hoping for an Archie kit for an install next year. But you mention "FWD Metric pattern" ..doest the mean that the rotation of the engine is so that in FWD position, it can be moved to the rear of the Fiero? Does the Corvette C5 Ls1 rotate in a direction so that it cannot be moved to the back of a Fiero and be used with an F40 or Getrag?

I was also told that i can flip the intake so on that LS1 engine as well, is that true?




"Metric Pattern" refers to the bellhousing bolt pattern: http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...ns#GM_metric_pattern
This Metric Pattern is a common FWD pattern and is the same as the fiero pattern.

You can use your LS1 engine in the back of a fiero, but it will require the Archie LS(x) kit.

Flipping the LS1 intake is simple, but it does require modifying the oil pressure sender boss (aluminum welding).
Seanpaul DEC 29, 06:57 PM
That was a good link thanks, i typed it in to wiki at first but didn't get the results.
So the wiki info doesn't seem to stay...is the Ls1 BOP?

Guru...have you considered offering a kit for this swap??
RumbleB DEC 30, 11:44 AM
Just an inquire here, regarding the water pump. Wouldn't be easier to switch the setup over and use the RWD water pump design? Instead of going though all of the work cutting up the casting, you have. It would put the pump back above the crank pulley and help clean up the engine some. Always like the work you do. First class all the way.

[This message has been edited by RumbleB (edited 12-30-2010).]

fieroguru DEC 30, 01:13 PM

quote
Originally posted by RumbleB:

Just an inquire here, regarding the water pump. Wouldn't be easier to switch the setup over and use the RWD water pump design? Instead of going though all of the work cutting up the casting, you have. It would put the pump back above the crank pulley and help clean up the engine some. Always like the work you do. First class all the way.




Only way you can use the RWD water pump is to cut the majority of the passenger side frame rail for clearance... there just isn't enough room for it to fit, then you have the issue with the outlet and heater hoses exiting to the rear of the chassis and looping back up front. If you look at the belt location vs. the timing cover on the LS4, there is only about 1/2" between the two. Then look at the RWD pump and see home much space there is between the backside of the pump and the pulley... probably 1" to 1 1/2", and then the pulley itself sticks out another 3-4 inches from there. If you look at some of the clearance shots between the balancer and passenser frame rail, the needed room just isn't there.

The "easy" solutions are either to run the same electric water pump setup like Archie does on all his swaps, get the WCF alternator bracket and mount it up top, or notch the passenger frame and mount is down low like FieroAddiction and Sinister Performance.

One of my many character flaws is I like to do things the hard way and come up with thought provoking solutions. The more effort involved, the greater the chance of my swap remaining unique...

I am hoping to have a couple pics of some welded alumimum this evening to get this thread back on track.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 12-30-2010).]

fieroguru DEC 30, 07:01 PM
Lets get back to the build...

The nipple for the water pump inlet was welded in place and the welds cleaned up:


The thermostat flange was also welded on. Here is the other half that will bolt in place:



I still need to weld the top of the coolant fill to the bolt on part. I purchased a 12" piece of aluminum pipe so I can adjust the elevation of the cap slightly.
fieroguru JAN 01, 05:36 PM
Well my alternator package showed up yesterday and had a distributor inside... going to be another week or two till I can get back to the accessory bracket.

So I spent a little time today capping the open passages on the water pump and cleaning up and smoothing all the welds.




On Sunday I should be able to finish the water pump housing... just need to build up the upper tensioner bolt area, cut out the thermostat area, then smooth out all the edges in the places it was cut. I have already done the first series of leak tests and everything checks out. Eventually, I will cap everything and pressurize it to 30 psi and check for air leaks.

Once it is leak free, then it will be ready for some sand blasting to give the whole thing a uniform texture.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 01-01-2011).]