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| LSJ Supercharged Ecotec Swap (Page 6/45) |
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AP2k
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JUN 22, 02:24 PM
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Joseph Upson
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JUN 22, 03:49 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by wftb:
looks like a simple solution to everyones 6 speed axle problems .also it means i could easily adapt an f35 to my 2.2 setup .great work ,your pictures are awesome . |
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Not quite though they will help. The G6 intermediate shaft is male ended, the Cobalt/Saturn intermediate shaft is female ended.
That means you'll have to adapt the Cobalt intermediate shaft to the V6 when used with the 6spd, and that will require an adaptor plate to attach it to the block mounting point.
The intermediate shaft used on the Cobalt/Ion looks identical to the intermediate shaft used on the Saab 9-3, tubular and I believe I have a picture of it in my 6spd swop thread.
I'm getting ready to order a set of Cobalt axles now to compare to the G6 axle length.
As for the outboard joints, unless the axle center shaft has a different number of splines than the G6 axle center shaft, the inner races of the outboard joints are interchangeable between the Fiero and Cobalt joint assemblies so that you can use the fiero joint cup and have the dust shield if you want.
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wftb
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JUN 22, 10:07 PM
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so to get the cobalt axles to work with the 6 speed just means you have to use the cobalt ss jack shaft as well .that would not be a problem as most wreckers would be happy to sell the whole assembly as a unit rather than a piece at a time.i dont think it would be much work to fab a bracket to adapt the cobalt jackshaft to a v 6 .it would be no work at all to mount it to a 2.2 because it has all mounting holes predrilled for every chassis /tranny/body it is used in.i am not dissing your thread here ,i have followed it since it started .you have done a ton of work to adapt the 6 speed tranny to the fiero .it just seems like the answer has been staring us in the face and somehow none of us have seen it till now.
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Joseph Upson
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JUN 22, 11:22 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by wftb:
so to get the cobalt axles to work with the 6 speed just means you have to use the cobalt ss jack shaft as well .that would not be a problem as most wreckers would be happy to sell the whole assembly as a unit rather than a piece at a time.i dont think it would be much work to fab a bracket to adapt the cobalt jackshaft to a v 6 .it would be no work at all to mount it to a 2.2 because it has all mounting holes predrilled for every chassis /tranny/body it is used in.i am not dissing your thread here ,i have followed it since it started .you have done a ton of work to adapt the 6 speed tranny to the fiero .it just seems like the answer has been staring us in the face and somehow none of us have seen it till now. |
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The other problem I forgot to mention is that if I recall correctly the Cobalt jackshaft and G6 jackshaft are not the same length, in which case adapting the Cobalt jackshaft to the V6 may not be enough, especially since it is already on the short side with the Ecotecs 5 speed. To further complicate the matter the F35 5spd does not appear to share the same 1" right output seal offset to the left, further away from the right side that would take an inch away from what is already a 1/2" to short, almost guaranteeing an axle malfunction if any function at all. So it's close but at the moment unless proven otherwise not close enough.
Maybe with the G6 driverside axle which should be a little longer than the Cobalt axle it will work.[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 06-22-2007).]
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dratts
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JUN 22, 11:26 PM
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One of the 3800SCs that I've seen used the entire donor car cradle and suspension. Just made front cradle mounts to place the cradle in the desired spot. Wouldn't that eliminate all the mounts and axles etc that need to be fabricated, making the installation a lot easier and proven reliability of components that are factory matched to each other. I'm not suggesting that you start over (I wouldn't) just some food for thought.
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dratts
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JUN 22, 11:27 PM
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By the way that's a great looking engine! How much does the engine tranny weigh fully dressed?
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ccfiero350
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JUN 23, 12:35 AM
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Joseph, what is the compressed overall length of the G6 axles? I'm looking at some tight oil pan clearances that I could avoid if I could jog the motor over to the driver side a bit.
I did look at getting the donor subframe to scab off the engine mounts. The cast aluminum mounts extend outboard of the transmission pretty far, far enough to interfier with the muffler and run smack dab thru the roll bar. But its about the same work at stabbing in a 2x3 box tube pieces and making your own.
The ecotec motor wieghs about 50 lbs less then the duke and the transmission with the LSD wieghs in about 107 lbs. I think. If I can get it to an honest 300 hp @ under 8000 rpms at the wheels I think I may have the fixings for a wicked track car.------------------
yellow 88 GT, not stock
white 88 notchie, 4 banger
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Joseph Upson
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JUN 23, 07:27 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by ccfiero350:
Joseph, what is the compressed overall length of the G6 axles? I'm looking at some tight oil pan clearances that I could avoid if I could jog the motor over to the driver side a bit.
I did look at getting the donor subframe to scab off the engine mounts. The cast aluminum mounts extend outboard of the transmission pretty far, far enough to interfier with the muffler and run smack dab thru the roll bar. But its about the same work at stabbing in a 2x3 box tube pieces and making your own.
The ecotec motor wieghs about 50 lbs less then the duke and the transmission with the LSD wieghs in about 107 lbs. I think. If I can get it to an honest 300 hp @ under 8000 rpms at the wheels I think I may have the fixings for a wicked track car.
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Compressed length is 23 5/8", I don't have the intermediate shaft here with me, UPS lost it, they delivered the empty box though, with busted seems, big hole in the bottom and all.
Looking back through the thread posts I see that the Cobalt axle is 23" compressed so that will help using the V6 and F40, the remaining problem is the driver side axle in that scenario. Since the driverside F40 tranny seal is 2" closer to the left it's possible to move the assembly 1" to the right to center it since the right seal is shifted 1" to the left. Problem is I don't know what the compressed length of the driverside Fiero axle is to know how much space I'm working with. So far it still looks like using the little short shafts I had made and female inboard cups to accomodate the Fiero axles maybe the most practical. There is also the possibility of cutting and resplining the outboard end of the G6 axle which Moser can do for about $50 I assume since it's less than a $100 a pair if I recall correctly.[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 06-23-2007).]
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ccfiero350
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JUN 23, 10:17 AM
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The getrag driver side axle is 22 1/2" long compressed. I would think it would be a better package to retain the intermediate shaft if you have something to locate the bearing on the side of the engine block. The cobolt's tripot cup is smaller (about 3") then the fiero so it can get closer to the engine mount.
Good to hear about the G6 axles, I think I'll get one and see if I can get my pan clearances with out notching the frame.------------------
yellow 88 GT, not stock
white 88 notchie, 4 banger
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Joseph Upson
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JUN 23, 12:16 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by ccfiero350:
The getrag driver side axle is 22 1/2" long compressed. I would think it would be a better package to retain the intermediate shaft if you have something to locate the bearing on the side of the engine block. The cobolt's tripot cup is smaller (about 3") then the fiero so it can get closer to the engine mount.
Good to hear about the G6 axles, I think I'll get one and see if I can get my pan clearances with out notching the frame.
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If you're interested I may have an extra G6 axle to get rid of since I have the Cobalt axles on the way. The stock Fiero axle being only a 1/2" shorter than the Cobalt axle doesn't offer much promise considering the total of 2.5" of combined length being taken up on the driverside. There is probably only 1" of plunge depth room on the Fiero axle. I don't like the idea of shifting the assembly to the right 1" so it looks like I may end up sending one G6 axle to moser to have about 2" cut off and then respline it. The right side on the Fiero appeared to check out but I don't have the compressed length of the long axle to compare numbers. Since the Cobalt axle is 5/8" shorter than the G6 axle it will probably be all that is necessary to take care of the right side. I don't know the length of the G6 intermediate shaft either for a total length compared to the Fieros long axle.
Found it, the long axle is 38 7/8" compressed, now I need the G6 intermediate shaft length.[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 06-23-2007).]
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