The Miura project begins (Page 56/84)
Sofa King MAR 08, 10:17 AM
SPECTACULAR!
aeffertz MAR 08, 05:58 PM
EDIT:
Ahhh, nevermind.

[This message has been edited by aeffertz (edited 03-08-2010).]

Bridgetown MAR 08, 08:53 PM
Man that is one deadly lookin' car.
countach711 MAR 15, 12:03 AM

quote
[B]
We're also working on the gas filler inlet. On the real car it's mounted up front under one of the grills on the front clip. After a lot of deliberation, it was decided that snaking a pipe from that location back to the Fiero gas tank was an unsafe situation. So it was decided to put it in the rear door jamb on the left side.



We made a fibelglass pocket to mount it into...






Hi Archie,
I haven't checked this thread for a while but is one of my top 2 favorites along with Bubbajoecox (sp?) build. I think when you or anyone else for that matter looks back over your life's work that this will stand out as your masterpiece. It is truly a marvel. That being said, when I saw the hole for the gas inlet and realized it was in the door frame it sent up some red flags. I know you wrote that the decision was made after much discussion, but you may want to take another look at it. There are so many things wrong with that location it's scary.

#1. I believe most all fill up locations state to close the door when fueling, and also not to get in and out of the car because you can build up static electricity as I'm sure you already know.
#2 Think of the things that could create a static spark in the interior of the car, possibly setting off fumes on a hot day when the seal isn't quite right because some gas station in the middle of nowhere has let its pumps go into disrepair.
a. A cell phone goes off, either driver's or passenger's.
b. somebody shifts in the passanger seat and creates a spark.
c. the driver forgets or gets careless and sits down while fueling. When he gets back up, he's now charged with electricity again.
d. Any number of interior electronics, faulty or otherwise could possibly set it off, relays, lights,etc..

3. Dripping/spilling fuel on the interior is a distinct possibility while either putting the nozzle in or taking it back out and that isn't good from a purely aesthetic viewpoint plus the odor.

I'm sure you get the idea, but the list goes on. If, God forbid, a spark did ignite the fumes, you now have a fire in the interior of the car, with a possible passenger seated, maybe even belted in. The headliner and the passenger's hair would be the first to go and it could go quickly and spread from there. At least if it's outside the car it could possibly be extinguished before any or little damage was done to the car, not to mention people.

As you, yourself state, you are trying to prevent an unsafe situation. I do agree that running a connection from the front to the back is not a good idea either. I have two possible alternatives:
1. Is there some other place at the rear of the car it could be placed? Now that you made those beautiful louvers they would hide an inlet residing underneath, although honestly I do not know enough about the car's configuration to know if this is feasible.

2. What about creating an inlet at the front of the gas tank and sealing up the rear one? I would think enough room could be made to locate one near the top of the tank at the front and then the stock filler location could still be retained. If you do choose to do this, please have it done by someone who knows how to weld on a gas tank as I've heard a few horror stories about that. Someone on this forum even said that after a tank has been drained and set for a while that fumes can remain in the seams, or something like that.

Anyway, this is just food for thought, again it is an awesome project and a beautiful build. Archie, I hope you know I am only trying to help. Everyone else, flame away!!
jmbishop MAR 15, 01:19 AM
#1. I believe most all fill up locations state to close the door when fueling, and also not to get in and out of the car because you can build up static electricity as I'm sure you already know.
Should be common knowledge

a. A cell phone goes off, either driver's or passenger's.
No, this is a myth and your cell phone will not cause a fire.
b. somebody shifts in the passanger seat and creates a spark.
To far away
c. the driver forgets or gets careless and sits down while fueling. When he gets back up, he's now charged with electricity again.
Not going to happen with the NOZZLE AND HOSE in the way
d. Any number of interior electronics, faulty or otherwise could possibly set it off, relays, lights,etc..
No, they are not close enough, by the time any vapors could reach any of these things they will be dissipated to safe levels.

3. Dripping/spilling fuel on the interior is a distinct possibility while either putting the nozzle in or taking it back out and that isn't good from a purely aesthetic viewpoint plus the odor.
Look at the shape of the jam, and minor dripping and spilling will not make it into the interior of the car.

I don't like the location, but its not going to turn the car into a fireball.

[This message has been edited by jmbishop (edited 03-15-2010).]

countach711 MAR 15, 11:04 AM
#1. I believe most all fill up locations state to close the door when fueling, and also not to get in and out of the car because you can build up static electricity as I'm sure you already know.
Should be common knowledge - >>>Okay so you have no argument for this one, and it is the most dangerous one. There are a lot of Youtube videos showing static caused fires.

a. A cell phone goes off, either driver's or passenger's.
No, this is a myth and your cell phone will not cause a fire. >>> I admit it might be a myth, but here's a few links anyway:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gct1BmKNvU0 I think this is an INDIRECT result of using a cell phone. He probably got a static charge by reaching in his pocket for the phone and not touching anything before the gas handle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfcZsML1pr0 this shows a cell phone igniting a fire

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAPvd9atXS4 this one's an an obvious fake, but read the comment by pinheade6 at the bottom, doesn't sound fake to me.

the Myth Busters did a test and they could not get a cell to ignite a fire, but they only tried one phone, not all phones work or are made the same.

b. somebody shifts in the passanger seat and creates a spark.
To far away >>> Unless the driver takes the time to open the passenger door to create air flow (assuming there IS any wind) EVERY time he fills up, fumes could very easily accumulate in the interior

c. the driver forgets or gets careless and sits down while fueling. When he gets back up, he's now charged with electricity again.
Not going to happen with the NOZZLE AND HOSE in the way, >>> Are you going to tell me you've never smelled fumes when gassing up? Granted some times are worse or better than others, but it DOES happen.

d. Any number of interior electronics, faulty or otherwise could possibly set it off, relays, lights,etc..
No, they are not close enough, by the time any vapors could reach any of these things they will be dissipated to safe levels. >> Not true, again, with the pass door closed.

3. Dripping/spilling fuel on the interior is a distinct possibility while either putting the nozzle in or taking it back out and that isn't good from a purely aesthetic viewpoint plus the odor.
Look at the shape of the jam, and minor dripping and spilling will not make it into the interior of the car. >>>In a perfect world, you are right, but every time you're sure? What if he's in a hurry for some reason and pulls the nozzle out too quickly?

I don't like the location, but its not going to turn the car into a fireball. >>>I hope so as well, but more so I hope they just move it. I went out and checked my car for the front of the tank's location and studied the rear engine pics above and I think either suggestion I made is feasible. One unknown is the baffling inside the tank and what effect that might have on a front fill location.

[This message has been edited by countach711 (edited 03-15-2010).]

ArbinShire MAR 15, 06:43 PM
Who cares about the above, *I* wouldn't want the gas that close to the passenger compartment because I'm a klutz and would most probably spill it. Even if I didn't, the fumes will still have easy access to the passenger cabin.
Archie MAR 15, 09:50 PM
On a real Miura the fuel inlet is under one of the vents on the hood area of the front clip.



That inlet leads to a fuel tank mounted between the front wheels under the spare.



Since we have the A/c hardware, power brake booster, battery & a few other things mounted up front, we wanted to keep the Fiero fuel tank in this car.

Anyone who knows their way around a Fiero knows that the fuel tank is tall in the back & goes to a bluntly pointed nose.



To route a fill tube from the front grill area to the "tall" area of the gas tank, the tube would have to be routed thru the area above the lower part of the tank. That area currectly is occupied by the shifter right now. If you moved the shifter & other things to a different area & allowed say 4" of filler tube to be nearly vertical at the fill end. (so that the gas nozzle could be stuck into it) Then the rest of the tube running back to the "tall" end of the tank would be actually going up hill slightly. Now, if you want to talk about a fire hazard, that would be it.

We mocked up routing the fill tube to the nose of the tank with a 15 degree gravity feed to the tank. (see pics below) It this position the inlet end of the fuel pipe would have been 4" above the grill that it's supposed to be located under.





As for fumes inside the car. It just so happens that the Fiero gas cap is non-vented. So they'll be no fumes when the cap is on. If you yank out the fuel hose while it's still pumping, then you've got a problem no matter what you're driving. And if you do that very often, you'll have a hard time geting anyone to sit in your car while you're pumping gas. If you're inclined to spill fuel because you're in a hurry when filling it up, then I'd suggest you wipe it up just as you'd wipe it up when fueling a stock Fiero.

BTW...I've never seen a spark jump from a passenger moving his butt around on a leather seat.

With all the build threads we have on this forum & all the stuff we've built over the years, one would think that people would start to accept that before we make important decisions on how something is done, we actually think it thru.

Thanks

Archie
Archie MAR 15, 10:43 PM
Tomorrow, the customer is coming in from Texas for a scheduled visit to lay hands the car & make plans for what else we need to do.

Archie
Sofa King MAR 16, 07:34 AM

quote
Originally posted by Archie:

Tomorrow, the customer is coming in from Texas for a scheduled visit to lay hands the car & make plans for what else we need to do.

Archie



He's going to be thrilled!