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| ECM upgrade (1227730) for stock 2.8 (Page 5/107) |
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Darth Fiero
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JAN 13, 02:42 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by Knight:
I was wondering. What would be a cost estimate of this upgrade. Even better would be a parts/supplies list with estimated prices off to the side. Also, Darth, would you be willing to modify a 7730 with the necessary wires & connectors (with extra long wiring to cut to fit) if I sent one to you and how much would you charge. Also, each time I upgrade my engine, how do I modify the ECM software or do I need to send it back to you. If I do need to send it back to you for reprogramming, what info would you need to properly tune it. Oh yeah...how much besides shipping would you charge for reprogramming each time?
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Ok, lets see if I can put something together off the top of my head. For some of the following prices, assume used parts purchased from a salvage yard...
-7730 ECM incl V6 mem-cal, wiring connectors, and some wiring - $50-$75 used
(if no V6 mem-cal is included with the ECM, one would need to be purchased - approx $65 from gmpartsdirect.com)
-Knock sensor, new - about $35
-Custom chip programming done by me - $45
Above is the absolute minimum you would need to purchase to pull this swap off less EGR hookup. If you wanted to hook the EGR up and make it functional, you would need to obtain/purchase the EGR, EGR adapter plate, wiring connector for the EGR, and extra wiring to run inside the car for the EGR. Again, you DO NOT need the EGR unless you have emissions testing in your area; it can be deleted in the chip program.
Now concerning the wiring, it is a pretty "simple" swap. I would be willing to put together a write-up and provide it to anyone who wants it so they could do the conversion at their end. This conversion is NOT going to require much soldering/rewiring at all. Most of what's involved is repinning the ECM connectors which you would do 1 at a time; so it would not be difficult, just time consuming. Some soldering and splicing would be required both inside the car and in the engine compartment but what is required is minimal.
Again, as far as a 100% plug-and-play kit; I have given some thought to this and it is going to be very difficult if not impossible to put something together that would fit in the space constraints inside the Fiero where the factory ECM resides. It would be far easier (and cheaper) to just repin/modify an existing Fiero harness instead of trying to put some sort of plug-and-play kit together.
Regarding your question concerning my custom chip tuning service, please PM or email me for details on that.
-ryan[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 01-13-2007).]
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Knight
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JAN 13, 03:03 AM
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Please yes. Send me the info on the swap. Pictures if at all possible. I sometimes have a hard time visualizing anything. I am currently looking for parts on e-bay for this upgrade. PM me or send to knight_@cox.net please sir.
BTW, thank you so much for all the help you are giving me. You are definitely due a + once I reach 30 posts.
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JazzMan
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JAN 13, 02:13 PM
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I, too, would be interested in info on this. It will probably be this summer before I can actually start proceeding, but would like the info and my knowledge to be complete before starting the project.
James
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Darth Fiero
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JAN 13, 02:58 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Knight:
Please yes. Send me the info on the swap. Pictures if at all possible. I sometimes have a hard time visualizing anything. I am currently looking for parts on e-bay for this upgrade. PM me or send to knight_@cox.net please sir.
BTW, thank you so much for all the help you are giving me. You are definitely due a + once I reach 30 posts. |
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email will be on it's way shortly concerning the chip reprogramming...
As far as the instructions go, yes I will include some pics to help you visualize what needs to be done and what you will need to do it.
-ryan
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Knight
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JAN 13, 05:23 PM
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Correct me if I am wrong. From what I have found out the following is true:
*The only difference between the 7727 and the 7730 is that the 7727 is 'weatherproofed' to be used in the engine compartment. If this is true, are the connector plugs identical?
*The only difference between the 7730 and the 7749 (Turbo 4.3 Syclone/Typhoon) is the 7749 is missing one quad driver and has additional injector driver. Are the connector harness plugs the same?
*The EPROMs are the same between all three. Two EPROMs are used: 27C128 16K * 8 or 27C256 32K * 8. Does that mean that one is a 16K, 8 bit processor and one is a 32K 8 bit processor? Or am I reading it wrong? What is the rel world difference between the two in terms of programing and function/abilities?
*The 7730 can replace the 7170 used in the Fiero with minimal modifications.
*The 7730 was placed in an "underhood case" for use in the McLarren 3.1L Turbo Grand Prix (Called the 7727)
Now since the 3.1 turbo uses a a 7727 (7730 encased), is there any real advantage to using a 7749 for a turbo application 3400? Is the only benefits to the 7749 the ability to control an additional injector? What is a quad driver? Is it a fuel injection driver and if so is that used for the 3.1 turbo?
Sorry for all the questions.
Thank you 81tta and Darth Fiero for the info and sites that have helped me so fa. I am so grateful to everybody that is helping me figure out how to upgrade my 2.8 to a 3400 with eventually a turbo. I am so electrically challenged!
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Knight
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JAN 13, 05:29 PM
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Capitol City Fiero
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JAN 13, 06:40 PM
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Ryan:
You got a lot of press on my swap, just a follow up on the car:
440T4 2000rpm @70mph
starts good with no cold start injection even below 20 degrees
idle is at a steady at 700rpm
car runs strong
mpg is 28 city and 35 hwy
car runs on 87 octane fuel as well
440T4 seems to have a final drive of about 284
again thanks Ryan, we love the upgrades
well worth the money for anyone who has a stock 2.8 3 speed automatic[This message has been edited by Capitol City Fiero (edited 01-13-2007).]
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Joseph Upson
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JAN 13, 07:46 PM
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I
| quote | Originally posted by Knight:
Correct me if I am wrong. From what I have found out the following is true:
*The only difference between the 7727 and the 7730 is that the 7727 is 'weatherproofed' to be used in the engine compartment. If this is true, are the connector plugs identical?
*The only difference between the 7730 and the 7749 (Turbo 4.3 Syclone/Typhoon) is the 7749 is missing one quad driver and has additional injector driver. Are the connector harness plugs the same?
*The EPROMs are the same between all three. Two EPROMs are used: 27C128 16K * 8 or 27C256 32K * 8. Does that mean that one is a 16K, 8 bit processor and one is a 32K 8 bit processor? Or am I reading it wrong? What is the rel world difference between the two in terms of programing and function/abilities?
*The 7730 can replace the 7170 used in the Fiero with minimal modifications.
*The 7730 was placed in an "underhood case" for use in the McLarren 3.1L Turbo Grand Prix (Called the 7727)
Now since the 3.1 turbo uses a a 7727 (7730 encased), is there any real advantage to using a 7749 for a turbo application 3400? Is the only benefits to the 7749 the ability to control an additional injector? What is a quad driver? Is it a fuel injection driver and if so is that used for the 3.1 turbo?
Sorry for all the questions.
Thank you 81tta and Darth Fiero for the info and sites that have helped me so fa. I am so grateful to everybody that is helping me figure out how to upgrade my 2.8 to a 3400 with eventually a turbo. I am so electrically challenged! |
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There is at least one pin difference between the 730 and 727 and I believe it involves the wastegate solenoid as discussed on the 60 degree forum in a post on adding a patch to the TunerproRT software to allow wideband O2 datalogging. The 727 has four plugs instead of the 730s two. Now that I think about it, I may ditch the 727 harness I've nearly completed and opt for the 730 once I compare the wiring diagram to the Fieros since it is capable of running the TGP code. As for the epromms I don't believe they are exactly interchangeable as far as exchanging 128 Kb with 256. I know you can use the higher speed in the lower speed application but I don't believe it will work properly in the opposite configuration. Someone with more knowledge of the specifics can clarify.
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Darth Fiero
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JAN 13, 08:37 PM
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Ok, lets clarify some things here...
| quote | Originally posted by Knight:
Correct me if I am wrong. From what I have found out the following is true:
*The only difference between the 7727 and the 7730 is that the 7727 is 'weatherproofed' to be used in the engine compartment. If this is true, are the connector plugs identical?
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No, the two computers use different connectors AND different wiring terminals.
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*The only difference between the 7730 and the 7749 (Turbo 4.3 Syclone/Typhoon) is the 7749 is missing one quad driver and has additional injector driver. Are the connector harness plugs the same? |
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True about the internal differences between the 7730 and 7749. I believe the connectors are identical.
| quote |
*The EPROMs are the same between all three. Two EPROMs are used: 27C128 16K * 8 or 27C256 32K * 8. Does that mean that one is a 16K, 8 bit processor and one is a 32K 8 bit processor? Or am I reading it wrong? What is the rel world difference between the two in terms of programing and function/abilities? |
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From what I have heard, most of the same code masks can be used in all 3 computers; I don't think there is a difference in processing power between the computers. All 3 computers use the same type mem-cal. The Syclone/Typhon 4.3L Turbo uses a 27C128 chip. The 7730/7727's use a 27C256 chip. All 3 computers WILL WORK with the 27SF512 flash memory chip. You just have to offset the start of device address to the correct setting when programming the 27SF512 flash memory chip for use in these applications.
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*The 7730 was placed in an "underhood case" for use in the McLarren 3.1L Turbo Grand Prix (Called the 7727)
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Concerning internal hardware, the 7727 and 7730 are pretty much identical. The only difference besides the casing is the connector design and wiring terminals (because they have to be sealed to the connectors). You cannot use the Fiero wiring terminals with the 7727 ECM; but they will work with the 7730 ECM.
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Now since the 3.1 turbo uses a a 7727 (7730 encased), is there any real advantage to using a 7749 for a turbo application 3400? Is the only benefits to the 7749 the ability to control an additional injector? What is a quad driver? Is it a fuel injection driver and if so is that used for the 3.1 turbo?
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A quad driver is nothing more than a controlled output (used for controlling an electric fan, EVAP solenoid, indicator lamp on the dash, etc). The 7749 ECM was also used on early Quad 4 and 87-90 Sunbird 2.0L Turbo engines which I think used Peak-and-Hold injectors (low impedence). The only reason why I brought up the 7749 is because it was used in the 4.3L Turbo Syclone/Typhoon applications which use a distributor; and it is this code mask you would probably want to use in a turbo 2.8 application. (FWIW, I am posting wiring diagrams and pinouts of the Sy/Ty ECM to my website as we speak). From what I have heard, the Sy/Ty [$58 code mask] can be used in a 7727/7730 ECM without any problems (although I haven't personally tried it).
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Darth Fiero
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JAN 13, 08:43 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Joseph Upson:
I may ditch the 727 harness I've nearly completed and opt for the 730 once I compare the wiring diagram to the Fieros since it is capable of running the TGP code. |
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The 7730 ECM will run the TGP Code. HOWEVER, the TGP code will ONLY work with DIS ignition system. (you probably already know this, but I just want to clarify it for the rest of the readers)
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As for the epromms I don't believe they are exactly interchangeable as far as exchanging 128 Kb with 256. I know you can use the higher speed in the lower speed application but I don't believe it will work properly in the opposite configuration. Someone with more knowledge of the specifics can clarify.
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There isn't a speed difference between the 128 and 256 EPROM chips. It's the size that is different. The 27C128 chip holds 16kb of info and the 27C256 chip holds 32kb of info. The 27C512/27SF512 chips hold 64kb of info. Concerning these 4 chips, a larger sized chip can be used in an application that calls for a smaller program. (IE: a 27C256 chip can be used in an application that originally used a 27C128 prom chip). Read my previous post concerning programming start address offsets when trying to do this.
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