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| LS4 V8 DoD 4T65-E TAPShift swap underway (pics inside) (Page 5/39) |
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blkcofy
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SEP 23, 11:45 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Eau_Rouge:
blkcofy, where did you get your black seatbelts? I'm also looking for a pair. Do they fit under the plastic panel without any problems? |
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Eau_Rouge,
Check ebay as search for Fiero Seat Belts. You'll need the 3 point belts. The retracter box is a different shape than the OEM belts, but it still fits under the side trim. I did have to purchase longer size bolts from Auto Zone to fit properly into the car as the bolts that came w/ the belts were too short. Other than that, it fits just fine.[This message has been edited by blkcofy (edited 09-23-2007).]
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blkcofy
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SEP 27, 12:16 AM
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Smashed another one of my piggy banks recently to continue to keep Darth busy on the swap. I think Peter Parker's Uncle Ben said it best..."With great power, comes great responsibility...and better aftermarket parts!".
Intrax Front and Rear Sway Bars to keep this thing on the road!
Koni Shocks and Struts from The Fiero Store
400lb springs and coilovers from West Coast Fiero
Complete Poly kit on pretty much everything but the engine mounts from The Fiero Store
I've got an order on it's way for some hot C6 Corvette tips from tc7130 (can't wait!)
 
A Steering Wheel Sport Paddle Shifter kit from Twist Machine (this almost makes up for loosing my 5sp Getrag)
This was 'Junior' as I left him in the great hands, care, and expertise of Darth Fiero. I didn't realize how much I'd miss this car until it was gone!
I'm still on a quest for an affordable, yet effective bigger rotor brake upgrade. I think I'm pretty much sold on the RCC Specialty kit and will look to find my own rotors and calipers. I'm sooo impressed with the folks there. They've bent over backwards to help me. And since I'm going with at least 11" rotors, I have to find an affordable, yet unique tire/wheel package. After seeing all the awesome setups on many of the Pennock owners, I'm looking for a 17x8 225/45 on the fronts and 18x9 265/35 on the rears. From what I've read, I need to stay w/in a 35 to 40 offset range. Painting and body work won't happen til next year, while I work my azz off to re-stock my depleting piggy banks! But I'm going with a gun metal metalic gray w/ black racing stripes. Have you seen this look on the porsche? Fricken killer look...in my opinion.
I've been dreaming about doing this for at LEAST 8 years. I am just so dang stoked about it finally coming to life, you have no idea. I haven't figured out if my wife is happy for me or just laughing at my childish giggles everytime I check on Darth's progress. A key to that of course is keeping the reciepts far, far, away from her! A boy and his toys...
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darkhorizon
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SEP 27, 10:17 AM
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Ill bet your wallet is a bit upset after that shopping spree!
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Fieroseverywhere
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SEP 27, 01:14 PM
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Darth Fiero
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SEP 27, 02:36 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere:
Before you go out an buy the 11.25 upgrade you should look into the 12" vette rotor setup. If you use the stock 88 fiero calipers you can save yourself a couple hundred dollars and end up with a bigger rotor out of the deal. |
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Because this is an 87 car, if we used stock 88 Fiero calipers with a 12" rotor setup, we would still need to buy calipers. And the last time I priced rear 88 calipers, they weren't cheap ($100 per side plus a $60 core).
Another observation I have is I drove a 88 Fiero with the 12" rotors (cross-drilled) using the stock 88 calipers and I wasn't impressed. I don't know if the problem was the type of brake pads that were used or because of some other problem, but the car had very high pedal effort -- and to be honest, my impression was that it stopped worse than my 87 with the 4-corner Grand Am upgrade. Now I am sure it probably didn't fade like my 87 does when I really push it hard, but my concern is the pedal effort required just to stop the car during normal driving. Again, I didn't put that brake system together so I don't know what parts were used and if someone switched out the brake M/C.
Now what I know about brakes is larger rotors are just one part of the equation. With bigger rotors you should also install brake calipers that have more piston area (ie: bigger piston or multiple pistons) to bring the pedal effort down. Obviously the system needs to be balanced because you don't want to have a touchy system that is easily prone to locking up. But that 88 I drove with the 12" rotors was at the extreme opposite end of the scale to this.
Just an observation and my $0.02 on the subject.
-ryan
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Fieroseverywhere
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SEP 28, 01:31 PM
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I was just throwing another option out there for you guys. My understanding is that the 88 fiero calipers have a slightly larger piston size then the earlier fieros. Using these should decrease pedal pressure a littleI am in the process of building my car now so I have not been able to test out these brakes yet. I am going with a higher performance pad. Actually I'm going with the Portfield R4-S. They are a pad made for high performance street and autocross. Here is a link to their site with some more info on them.
http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/pads.html
I like the idea of using fiero components in the braking system. The parts are readily available and since this forum is here you can get them at decent prices. I know that this upgrade has been done for nearly 20 years as it was one of the first brake upgrades ever done on a fiero. When I get mine done and tested I will post back my results if you guys are interested. Out of all the people I have talked to you are the first to give any feedback on this brake set-up. I hope my results are a little better then the ones you have driven. Thats the great thing about fieros, there are so many options out there.
The build looks great. Keep up the good work. If you can get a video of the car running so the rest of us will get a chance to hear it that would be excellant. Great job so far. 
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Darth Fiero
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SEP 29, 12:19 PM
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The oil dipstick tube was long enough that I was able to rebend it so it could be repositioned to be fastened to the back of the cylinder head -- thus giving easier access to it once installed in the Fiero...
The oil filter was hitting the cradle so that had to be delt with...
Not pictured is the plate I welded across the bottom of the cradle in this area in order to box it in and reinforce it. I was concerned about not doing this because I felt without the boxing the cradle would have been weak in this area.
As seen in one of the pictures above in one of my previous posts, during the test fit the oil pan was resting on the cradle -- so that had to be corrected...
In doing this, it created a problem where the control arm would have hit the now boxed area if the suspension would have bottomed out so I did have to modify the control arm in the area of the bushing slightly (not pictured); but it wasn't a big deal.
The only other area that required notching was on the left side where the transmission side cover had a boss on it that would have contacted the cradle. So I corrected it by notching this area out of the cradle and then filled in the hole by welding in some metal...
No control arm modifications were required on this side after this was done because it wasn't that big of a cut-out. Also notice in the above pic where some of the area where the mount bolts to the cradle had to be ground away to clear the corner of the transmission pan. Not pictured are about 3 other areas that required slight massaging to clear the engine/transmission. Not a big deal, but again it had to be done. Since the 88 cradles have less room, I assume more work will be required to get this powerplant to fit in one of those cars but that was expected.
-ryan
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darkhorizon
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SEP 30, 02:15 PM
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| | | quote | Originally posted by Darth Fiero:
The oil dipstick tube was long enough that I was able to rebend it so it could be repositioned to be fastened to the back of the cylinder head -- thus giving easier access to it once installed in the Fiero...
O how I wish I could do this with 3800's easily, Maybe I will try mounting them farther back next time in the swap I am doing right now
The oil filter was hitting the cradle so that had to be delt with...
Fairly large mod there, could you of used a oil filter relocator to fix that interferance?
Not pictured is the plate I welded across the bottom of the cradle in this area in order to box it in and reinforce it. I was concerned about not doing this because I felt without the boxing the cradle would have been weak in this area.
I do this whenever I can, I know that its not technically a weak point, but I dont like the idea of 3x the power that cradle was designed for, twisting around on top. That rail seems so small and fragile that you could twist it and break it without much effort. I assume your dumping the stock ebrake system then?
As seen in one of the pictures above in one of my previous posts, during the test fit the oil pan was resting on the cradle -- so that had to be corrected...
I had this problem on one of my 3800s I fixed it by mounting it slightly higher in the rear so it tilted a bit differently.
In doing this, it created a problem where the control arm would have hit the now boxed area if the suspension would have bottomed out so I did have to modify the control arm in the area of the bushing slightly (not pictured); but it wasn't a big deal.
What did you have to modify? just cut out a part of the lower side of the arm? What do you think you would do if it was an 88?
The only other area that required notching was on the left side where the transmission side cover had a boss on it that would have contacted the cradle. So I corrected it by notching this area out of the cradle and then filled in the hole by welding in some metal...
Hmm, if your cutting there, it looks like you are really fighting to get this mounted really low eh?
No control arm modifications were required on this side after this was done because it wasn't that big of a cut-out. Also notice in the above pic where some of the area where the mount bolts to the cradle had to be ground away to clear the corner of the transmission pan. Not pictured are about 3 other areas that required slight massaging to clear the engine/transmission. Not a big deal, but again it had to be done. Since the 88 cradles have less room, I assume more work will be required to get this powerplant to fit in one of those cars but that was expected.
I always prefered doing swaps on 88 cradles, but I think I mounted things a bit higher and farther forward than you do. I noticed that on akursed swap, it seemed really centered in the engine bay. Great post, I love the detail. I might have to consider this swap when I have some access to tuning it. I can get these motors/trannies cheaper than you guys want to hear.
-ryan
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Darth Fiero
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OCT 01, 05:53 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by darkhorizon:
Fairly large mod there, could you of used a oil filter relocator to fix that interferance? |
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Probably could have, but the amount of money that would have been required to purchase everything needed to relocate the oil filter would have been more than it cost me to modify the cradle.
[QUOTE]I assume your dumping the stock ebrake system then? | |
No. The owner (blkcofy) wants to keep the e-brake for the reasons he described in an earlier post.
| quote | | I had this problem on one of my 3800s I fixed it by mounting it slightly higher in the rear so it tilted a bit differently. |
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Tilting the powertrain up in the rear would have created clearance problems elsewhere; especially up front in the area of the water pump.
| quote | | What did you have to modify (control arm)? just cut out a part of the lower side of the arm? What do you think you would do if it was an 88? |
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I will show what I did to the control arm once the poly bushings are installed later. It was a "minor" modification. I don't know what is going to be required for an 88 cradle until I do one of these swaps in an 88 Fiero.
| quote | | Hmm, if your cutting there, it looks like you are really fighting to get this mounted really low eh? |
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Fighting? No. Notching the cradle to clear the transmission used in that LT1/4T60-E swap I did a few years ago was "fighting". This is nothing compared to that. But as with all my swaps, I always try to mount the engine/trans as low as possible for many reasons. One reason is for deck lid/upper end clearance and another reason is for lower center of gravity. Since I make custom mounts anyway, I can mount the engine/trans anywhere I want it (within reason and respect to drive axle angles). In the case of this swap, the engine/trans is being mounted as low as possible to maximize clearance between the deck lid and the water pump housing as well as the intake manifold. Now the LS4's intake sits so low it would probably never interfere, but I wanted to leave the option open for a different intake should the owner desire it.
| quote | | I always prefered doing swaps on 88 cradles, but I think I mounted things a bit higher and farther forward than you do. I noticed that on akursed swap, it seemed really centered in the engine bay. Great post, I love the detail. I might have to consider this swap when I have some access to tuning it. I can get these motors/trannies cheaper than you guys want to hear. |
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I can only work with what I am supplied with. If the customer brings me an 84-87 Fiero and wants a swap done to it, that's what I use; if I am supplied with an 88 Fiero, that's what I use. I have seen earlier cars (84-87) where people swapped 88 cradles into them; but 88 cradles aren't cheap plus you have to consider the cost of the rest of the parts needed to put one into an earlier car; so for many people on a budget, this isn't an option.
AkursedX's swap used a SS intercooler which required me to mount the engine/trans low on the cradle in order to clear the deck lid without cutting. I don't like cutting on the Fiero chassis or body parts if I don't have to. Cradles are much easier to find and replace than chassis' and body parts; should anyone ever desire to revert the car back to stock for any reason -- OR -- transfer the swap to another car in case of body/chassis damage as the result of an auto accident. In the case of this swap tho, there are going to be modifications required to the chassis in order to clear this engine; but that has to be done for other swaps as well (3.4 DOHC, NorthStar, etc).
Concerning tuning software, HP Tuners and EFI Live already has support for the LS4 and both companies have assurred me their software can defeat the VATS securty functions in the ECM. I have already ordered a tuning software suite for this swap so I've got that covered. But the ECM/TCM programming isn't what I am worried about; the DIC and BCM concerns me more. I (and the owner) want to use the BCM and DIC in this swap; and as you know there is no tuning support for the BCM at this time (and probably will never be). So I will probably have to spoof a lot of inputs to the BCM in order to get the BCM to work as desired and prevent any warning messages from being flashed up on the DIC.
Now as far as LS4/4T65-E powertrains are concerned, Ed Morad is the one we got this powertrain from; and he told me when I picked this one up that he is pricing them out at $3000-$3500 complete depending on mileage and included hardware -- which I think is a great deal. He can be contacted via his website here: www.moradpartscompany.com if anyone is interested in purchasing one of these setups.
-ryan
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Austrian Import
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OCT 01, 11:26 PM
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This thread is awesome. How on earth did I miss it? Love the Lambo creme interior. More pictures please.
*bump*
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