LSJ Supercharged Ecotec Swap (Page 37/45)
Austrian Import APR 15, 12:14 PM

quote
Originally posted by ccfiero350:
The SLA rear has been done in a fiero. There's even a kit. Ask Dave http://team321.com
The tri-link setup is like the "before" set up. You can dial in static camber but it hurts you in strait line acceleration.



Thanks. There is a lot of things I like about it. I'm not sure if it's still for sale though. Seems that Dave has sold the Fiero business to HT Motorsports. - I could be wrong though. Is there footage of anyone having bought the kit/installed it? I'm not sure what to use as a search term to find it.


[IMG]http://team321.com/MidEngineCradle/images/rear_wframe.jpg [/IMG]

I like how it would allow for a longitudinal engine configuration. - which could work well for a boxer motor type setup (Subie, or Porsche)
I'm not that happy what it would extend the Fiero wheelbase. - I wonder if a similar setup could be made using a transverse engine configuration. (maybe with existing cradle attachment points)

ccfiero350 thanks for explaining which setup the Fiero suspension corresponds to.

[This message has been edited by Austrian Import (edited 04-15-2011).]

Austrian Import APR 15, 12:30 PM

quote
Originally posted by coppertop_01:
aussie, might have you covered with the 88 cradle, guess you haven't seen my build? CC dropped me some plans for a 88 cradle and from there I was able to autocad, laser, form and weld a new 88 style cradle custom built to take a LSJ and F35 transmission.

The previous guy was right about the LNF's, they are a great motor, but there is some large problems with using it as a bolt in motor, the LSJ is much easier with a greater array of aftermarket support and removing the blower and putting on a turbo is fairly easy.

CC.......that boxter rear end gives me idea's, although I ain't doing that to my car, maybe the next one.
Jer



Cool. Please elaborate. I think it would be fun to make an '88 style tube sub-frame. Especially if the blueprints can be modified to solve some of the problems that even the '88 frame/suspension had.
I like the idea of a Boxster subframe as well. (adapted to the above CAD cradle) The Porsche suspension subframe is, as a complete assembly, fairly affordable. I just don't know if the geometry would match a Fiero front end. As I was pondering in Anyone know I a Boxer Engine will fit? , I think it would be cool to take a whole Porsche Boxster rear end (incl) motor and make a custom cradle that uses Fiero attachment points (cradle, and subframe) It just depends on how cheap a running Boxster could be found where the rear end is intact, and the front-end damage is excessive enough to total out the donor Porsche.

What I like about the LNF motor is the great gas mileage and low end torque. Direct injection makes smaller engines feel as if they had more cylinders. I agree, it's relatively new technology and there isn't much tuning potential out there. I'd basically be stuck with a stock LNF drivetrain (engine/transmission from a Cobalt SS, or HHR-SS, or F-35 + Ecotec from a Solstice). For California emissions it would be great, because I'm not allowed to modify the drvetrain anyways. Just sad, that if I'd like to modify the engine for more power, I'd have to stick with GM's "Stage 2/3/etc." kits.

It would be great to have blueprints for an '88 style (or other) cradle that could then customized for various projects. (like a SLA derivative) I guess it's time for me to learn Solidworks.

[This message has been edited by Austrian Import (edited 04-15-2011).]

coppertop_01 APR 15, 01:07 PM
Using some drawings that CCfiero sent my way and a 88 cradle that I borrowed from a local member I was able to design (CCfiero did the 3D renderings and found a couple problems that I had) a sheet metal 88 cradle made from 1/8" mild steel, each rail piece had 2 pieces that were formed and welded together, I had also integrated factory motor mount locations for the LSJ/F35 transmission. Everything is posted on my blog, you will have to go a couple months back to see the progress though http://coppertopautosports.blogspot.com/, unfortunately it will be a couple years before I actually get to road testing my design..........

Jer

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86 GT daily driver w/mods
85 GT project car "Fierion"

Follow the buildup blog at http://coppertopautosports.blogspot.com

Austrian Import APR 15, 03:44 PM
Thank you.

I hope it won't be that long. It would be cool to see that design come to life.

Is your idea to do an exact copy of the '88 cradle at first, and then modify it for more modern suspension geometry?
What year Fiero did you design this for?
If you're doing this for a 'pre '88 Fiero, it would be nice for this cradle to accept the 'pre '88 coolant lines, which would have to be modified when using an '88 cradle in a pre '88 car.
ccfiero350 APR 15, 03:54 PM
Coppertop_01's cradle uses 88 geometry in 84-87 cars. We did not make any special provisions for stock cooling, the ecotec coolant lines do have some differences, ones in front of the motor, the other behind it on the other end.

It'll probably change over time.

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yellow 88 GT, not stock
white 88 notchie, 4 banger

coppertop_01 APR 15, 04:37 PM
CC is right, in my current version I haven't changed too much over the 88, but this will change in time......in my case it was just to build one so we had something to start with.

Jer
Austrian Import APR 21, 04:49 AM

quote
Originally posted by coppertop_01:

CC is right, in my current version I haven't changed too much over the 88, but this will change in time......in my case it was just to build one so we had something to start with.

Jer



I've been looking at your blog and I have to say I'm in awe of your fabrication talent and your combined design talents.

I hope you'll keep tinkering with the design of the cradle. Looking at your pictures I kept visualizing an upper control arm mounted ~10" above the lower suspension links for a true SLA type setup. Either built up from the custom cradle (like the Agent 47 setup) and tying into the Fiero subframe for stability, or even mounted to the Fiero subframe.

Do you just have the cradle as a design file, or do you also have the Fiero subframe as a CAD file as well? Would it be really hard to design the above as a CAD file and do a similar suspension animation as CCFieros suspension geometry video?

Well, it's late my mind is already half way in dreaming about suspensions, may as well go to bed and actually get some shut eye.
coppertop_01 APR 21, 07:39 AM
The designs I have right now are in CAD, but I don't have a completely put together version yet.........more of a mix and match of different angles and flats used in the laser process, unfortunately it would probably take somebody a little while to make sense of the drawings, one day I will get down to cleaning them up and either learning solid edge or pass them onto CCfiero to do the 3D renderings.

Back when I started my project I was thinking of doing a SLA rear setup, heck I even went to the wreckers a few times to look at other RWD SLA setup cars, but always left unimpressed (except for the 240's). In hindsight if I were to start the project over I would probably look at doing a SLA rear setup........but then also in hindsight I would have started this car as a tube chassis instead of fixing up a rotting chassis, its amazing how much a project will grow past the original idea.

Jer

------------------
86 GT daily driver w/mods
85 GT project car "Fierion"

Follow the buildup blog at http://coppertopautosports.blogspot.com

ccfiero350 APR 21, 09:28 AM

quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:


Do you just have the cradle as a design file, or do you also have the Fiero subframe as a CAD file as well? Would it be really hard to design the above as a CAD file and do a similar suspension animation as CCFieros suspension geometry video?




These days, the design file, cad files, are one in the same, the core data is used through out the process. I just use different modules in ProE to do different things. Sometimes the geometry data is exported to a another software packages because either it's does it better then ProE or I don't have the module that will let me do the task. The design work is not all that hard for me, but it is time consuming, and paying gigs have top priority on my work station.

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yellow 88 GT, not stock
white 88 notchie, 4 banger

Austrian Import APR 21, 11:46 AM

quote
Originally posted by coppertop_01:
Back when I started my project I was thinking of doing a SLA rear setup, heck I even went to the wreckers a few times to look at other RWD SLA setup cars, but always left unimpressed (except for the 240's). In hindsight if I were to start the project over I would probably look at doing a SLA rear setup........but then also in hindsight I would have started this car as a tube chassis instead of fixing up a rotting chassis, its amazing how much a project will grow past the original idea.



It's interesting, how many times I hear, that rather than doing a SLA type setup on a Fiero, or better the suspension, to rather just start over with a tube frame. Often I hear that the "wet noodle" chassis of the Fiero would be the weak point of a great suspension setup. It seems the same for kit cars these days. - Most suggest just starting with a blank tube frame.