Wellll, originally I was just going to do an engine swap and get the car back on the road, that was 2007, then I came across some cool parts, and you know the rest of the story.
The 3-link is a pretty good design for a strut based suspension, it only lacks a good camber gain. To do better in a fiero, I would drop the strut and do full on SLA type, but they would mean a whole new sub frame and mods to the chassis space frame to boot.
To get the camber gain in a good usable zone with these new knuckles, I just need to raise the inboard toe mounts about an inch. That's a whole lot easier then adding another whole set of tie in points a foot above the lower mounts.
My main goal was to get away from the weeny fiero hub bearing and use cheap wide wheels along with off the shelf axles that fit the MU3 transmission and Vue hubs.
------------------ yellow 88 GT, not stock white 88 notchie, 4 banger
RacerX11
APR 12, 05:05 PM
Couldn't you achieve the same result by lowering the lateral link attachment points on the knuckle an inch? Or would this change the roll center compared to raising the inboard attachment points? Is there even room to lower the knuckle attachment points without interfering with the trailing arm?
Nice work!
ccfiero350
APR 12, 05:58 PM
You can, and I did, to a point. You need to lower both the laterals and trailing link together. Increasing the angle of the trailing will increase anti-squat.
There is a pretty good twist that goes on when brake is applied between these points. As you move away from the axle centerline and at the same time move away from the wheel centerline, it multiplies the torque applied so you have to add more metal to keep it from bending.
Moving the inboard lateral pickups does not change that twist in the knuckle, so it's cool.
Moving either pickup point will effect the roll center, and in the case of my rear end, I'm trying to raise it up. The front is a whole other animal.
------------------ yellow 88 GT, not stock white 88 notchie, 4 banger
Austrian Import
APR 13, 01:36 PM
quote
Originally posted by ccfiero350: Wellll, originally I was just going to do an engine swap and get the car back on the road, that was 2007, then I came across some cool parts, and you know the rest of the story. The 3-link is a pretty good design for a strut based suspension, it only lacks a good camber gain. To do better in a fiero, I would drop the strut and do full on SLA type, but they would mean a whole new sub frame and mods to the chassis space frame to boot. To get the camber gain in a good usable zone with these new knuckles, I just need to raise the inboard toe mounts about an inch. That's a whole lot easier then adding another whole set of tie in points a foot above the lower mounts. My main goal was to get away from the weeny fiero hub bearing and use cheap wide wheels along with off the shelf axles that fit the MU3 transmission and Vue hubs.
I know how that is. I'm guessing by the time you'll finish the build you'll probably replace the now aged LSJ with an LNF motor. - I guess that's the nature of long-term builds.
You have a point with the 3-link suspension. I'm not that lucky. I have a pre '88 so I don't even have a trailing link. I know I could put in an '88 rear end, but that's a lot of effort. (finding an '88, separating the motor from the cradle, separating my motor from cradle, etc. )
At that point it may be fun to do an even better version than just the '88 suspension, hence my idea of a double wishbone.
I had to look up the term "SLA", as I just know it as an unequal A-arm double wishbone suspension. Then again "SLA" is much faster to say, and also yielded this cool video:
I see how making a mount for the UCL (upper control arm) would be difficult, but I think there may be a way of mounting one by just modifying the cradle and leaving the rest of the Fiero Space-frame stock. (maybe tying it into the stock upper strut mount) Kind of like the people who made the above video. Agent 47 Granted, this is for a front end, but a similar approach of triangulation may still work. What do you think?
[This message has been edited by Austrian Import (edited 04-13-2011).]
Austrian Import
APR 13, 01:47 PM
The other idea I had was to mimic (or buy at $300-$600) a Porsche Boxster rear suspension:
Either way. Your improved knuckle looks great and I like the idea of using modern wheel bearings that survive track abuse.
Goldenfoot
APR 13, 03:18 PM
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:
I know how that is. I'm guessing by the time you'll finish the build you'll probably replace the now aged LSJ with an LNF motor. - I guess that's the nature of long-term builds.
Actually, while the LNF motor is newer and delivers more power stock, There isnt enough aftermarket demand for power modifications as compared to the LSJ. The biggest reason is that the LNF is direct injected and there is no supplier that offers a direct injector of higher capacity than the stock. The LSJ thought has alot more room to add and for much less $.
ccfiero350
APR 13, 10:38 PM
That boxster subframe is a great example of what a SLA rear should look like.
The Agent 47 video demonstrates exactly what happens to the 88 tri-link rear set up. What I'm trying to do is to get it behave a little better.
------------------ yellow 88 GT, not stock white 88 notchie, 4 banger
Austrian Import
APR 14, 03:31 PM
quote
Originally posted by ccfiero350: That Boxster subframe is a great example of what a SLA rear should look like. The Agent 47 video demonstrates exactly what happens to the 88 tri-link rear set up. What I'm trying to do is to get it behave a little better.
So do you think a setup like this is feasible on a Fiero? The way I envision it by modifying (or redesigning, while keeping the stock attachment points) a Fiero cradle, while keeping the Fiero spaceframe intact? Or do you see it as more involved?
Could you elaborate on your take of the Agent 47 video? I'm confused if you meant the 88 tri-link setup is like the "before" part of using McPhaerson struts with very aggressive camber angle, or the "after' part where one would use the Agent 47 SLA "drop in" adapter?
ccfiero350
APR 14, 05:03 PM
The SLA rear has been done in a fiero. There's even a kit. Ask Dave http://team321.com
The tri-link setup is like the "before" set up. You can dial in static camber but it hurts you in strait line acceleration.
------------------ yellow 88 GT, not stock white 88 notchie, 4 banger
coppertop_01
APR 14, 05:48 PM
aussie, might have you covered with the 88 cradle, guess you haven't seen my build? CC dropped me some plans for a 88 cradle and from there I was able to autocad, laser, form and weld a new 88 style cradle custom built to take a LSJ and F35 transmission.
The previous guy was right about the LNF's, they are a great motor, but there is some large problems with using it as a bolt in motor, the LSJ is much easier with a greater array of aftermarket support and removing the blower and putting on a turbo is fairly easy.
CC.......that boxter rear end gives me idea's, although I ain't doing that to my car, maybe the next one.
