newest project (Page 296/312)
Fiero2m8 NOV 04, 07:17 PM
I checked this month's Road Test Summary from Road & Track magazine.
There were only 2 cars with V8 engines that had a lower curb weight:

1) Spyker C8 Spyder (2,985 lbs)
2) Saleen S7 Twin Turbo (2,900 lbs estimated)
skorpioskorpio NOV 06, 04:55 AM
Well there is the Ariel Atom 500 which has a 500 bph V8 and weighs less than half as much as either of those.

[This message has been edited by skorpioskorpio (edited 11-06-2012).]

skorpioskorpio NOV 06, 05:27 AM

quote
Originally posted by Will:


Does not compute.

Even in the billet crank world, I guess the "lower volume" products cost more.

Because only one cam is required, and because of the cheaper billet cranks, putting together a flat crank Chevy is going to be significantly less expensive than a flat crank Northstar.




Not sure I understand what doesn't compute. Why you would do a flat crank Northstar over a SBC? Northstar is practically Cosworth like in it's design, except for the cross crank, the SBC was a simple relatively unsophisticated design when it came out 60 years ago, remember this was an engine designed to be put in a mark that was famously frugal at that time. Don't get me wrong what can and has been done with a small block is impressive, but it's not a split block standing bore 32 valve double overhead cam engine. And frankly it'll cost you more to do a flat plane SBC that'll spin up on the 9000 rpm range than it would cost you to get the same out of a flat crank Northstar. On a small block you'd have to tweek just about every aspect of the design to achive that and it would be pushing the limits of what a push rod design is capable of, on a Northstar it basically takes a crank and cams.
Will NOV 06, 10:24 AM
What I meant was that the moment of inertia of the cams is not relevant to the engine's NVH characteristics.

I don't think you've looked thoroughly at how expensive the custom cams would be. Remember that there are *NO* blanks for the Northstar cams. Everything has to be custom.

Don't underestimate how expensive and time consuming development is. All the parts to build a 9K RPM Chevy are on the shelf and available from places like Summit, Jegs, etc. The only difference would be that the billet crank and custom cam would have a different firing order. The valvetrain to turn that RPM is built from shelf parts. The heads that flow enough air to make power at that RPM are shelf parts. CNC porting is available as a standard service. The throttle per cylinder intake manifolds that would both support the airflow requirements of the engine and civilize an engine radical enough to make power at 9000 RPM are shelf items. Expensive, but shelf items. The aftermarket *BLOCK* strong enough for 4 digit power is a shelf item.

You will have to make EVERYTHING for the Northstar.
Stock pistons and rods won't make 9000 RPM... not for more than a couple of dyno pulls, anyway. Besides, the stock compression ratio and ring pack aren't appropriate for such a build anyway...

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 11-06-2012).]

skorpioskorpio NOV 06, 01:01 PM

Custom cams for changed firing order are about $500 a shaft, it's the least of the problems, the crank itself is more than double that. When I talked to Alan over at CHRFab, he suggested that near 9000rpm on a stock Northstar rotating assembly was pretty typical. Getting into the 9000rpm mark on a SBC reliably is not so easy. There is probably 4 times the weight in valvetrain mass in a pushrod engine, and being a 2 valve per cylinder engine to get the flow you have to do it with lift and not area not the path you want to take for high rpm.

Anyway, be that as it may, this is a thread about a successful and interesting swap of a American 32 valve DOHC V8 into an American mid engined car running a fairly exotic induction system and not just a Holley 4 barrel and I'm not sure how small block flag waving belongs in this thread. I know what a SBC can do, and what it costs, and frankly I find it uninteresting, you maybe able to push this old 1950s design to impressive heights and yes this engine has even run along side Cosworths at Indy not that long ago, but in the end it's still a pushrod small block. If I was prone to go the push rod Chevy route I'd probably be looking at a 8+ liter World Castings aluminum big block with Arao heads which makes the flat crank Northstar seem cheap in comparison.... because it's interesting.
Will NOV 06, 01:30 PM

quote
Originally posted by skorpioskorpio:

Custom cams for changed firing order are about $500 a shaft, it's the least of the problems,



I think that finished cams are going to be a good bit more than that...

If you do it because it's interesting, go for it. That's why I'm building my car the way I am and the way I'm planning.
Just know what you're getting into before you get started.
dskebo NOV 09, 01:55 PM

quote
Originally posted by bubbajoexxx:

hubs are ready to install here are the pics






Hey bubbajoe can you tell me the timken part number for the bearings you used on the inside of the hub. I have searched this site for days and I can't find the number I see you used a ford seal but the pictures of the bearings I can not read. I just don't want to make ten trips to the store trying to get them right when I know you did. Your work is outstanding.
fieroguru NOV 09, 03:22 PM

quote
Originally posted by dskebo:


Hey bubbajoe can you tell me the timken part number for the bearings you used on the inside of the hub. I have searched this site for days and I can't find the number I see you used a ford seal but the pictures of the bearings I can not read. I just don't want to make ten trips to the store trying to get them right when I know you did. Your work is outstanding.



Information was on page 60 (page 1 is a table of contents for every page).


quote
Originally posted by Fiero2m8:
After some more R&D we are going to mod Bearing #513009 instead due to its smaller size 2.79" vs. 88 spindle of 2.74"

Timken or FAG #513009
Cross Ref #7466902 7470539 7470540
Non-Drive (FWD)
REAR w/Disc Brakes
Non-ABS

Fits:
1979-1985 Buick Riviera
1979-1985 Cadillac Eldorado
1980-1985 Cadillac Seville
1979-1981 Oldsmobile Toronado
1982-1985 Oldsmobile Toronado
dskebo NOV 09, 05:00 PM
Thanks for the reply but I think he used a different set of bearings than what came in the hub. If you look at the picture you will see a bunch of timken bearing and seal boxes.
The hub part comes with the races machined into the carrier so even if he used the bearings that came with the hub he still would have to purchase the races to mate to the bearings right? also the one picture shows a bearing and race on it but I cannot read the part number. I do not think this was original to 513009 hub.
dskebo NOV 15, 02:05 AM

quote
Originally posted by bubbajoexxx:



no more plastic caged ball bearings full tapered roller bearings and races
when i disassembled the stock fiero units they came with plastic cage ball bearings
and the cages showed signs of melting from lack of grease this new setup eliminates the plastic parts and give true roller bearings
and a 1 1/8 stub shaft and 5X4 3/4 bolt circle

a couple of pics showing the shaft size change and new bearing



as seen in the pics the bearing is now a presision roller bearing insted of a cheep plastic low quality ball bearing




Does anyone know the part number on them bearng he has on the hub . I CANNOT GET ANYONE TO TELL ME ? Is it a BIG secret or am I suposed to know already. Did I miss somthing in some other thread ? Help Im confused.