Northstar rebuild: Will style (Page 21/119)
Fiero STS DEC 20, 10:49 AM
Some info on N* head bolts.

Contrary to popular belief the Northstar head bolts are really not torque to yield fasteners..... The bolts will stretch very slightly (permanently) but they are good for probably 10 rundowns before any perceptable yield would occur that would render them unusable.

In fact, new bolts are run down and then loosened in the plant in the normal operation tensioning the head bolts. The pre-tensioning step actuall subjects the bolts to more tension then the final tightening step.... This is done to burnish the threads in the block as they have never seen bolts in them before the heads are installed and the head bolts tensioned. The aluminum threads need to be "worked" once before the final tensioning step so the head bolts are run down, loosened and then re-tensioned. If you started with new bolts on your reassembly then you have only done the equivalent of the first pre-tensioning step on the bolts. Use them, they will be fine. Re-using a new bolt that has been run down one time is not the same as re-using a bolt that was in the engine for 100K.......

The instructions to not reuse old head bolts is primarily because the bolts when new have a special microencapsulated coating on the threads and under the head of the bolt. The coatings act as a high pressure lubricant during tensioning and then a thread locker once installed. On a simple run down and loosening without running the engine the bolts can be "used" several times. Once the bolts see a lot of time and thermal cycling in the engine the coatings are rendered unusable again so the bolts have to be replaced as there is no repeatable means or reapplying the special coatings in the field.

If you simply installed the head with a new gasket and new bolts and pulled a timesert out and dissassembled the head the bolts are fine to use again and so is the gasket. If the head gasket was not used in the running engine and subjected to any thermal cycles it is fine. The gasket will compress permanently somewhat when torqued into place....that does not ruin it. I have seen LOTS of head gaskets run down and loosened and re-run down and continued on test fine. As long as the gasket did not stick and tear when dissassembly the gasket is perfectly fine to re-use. It has just been "pre-compressed" much as it is done in the above mentioned pre-tensioning step to condition the head bolt holes. That is done with the gasket in place so the gasket sees the compression and then relaxation in production.

With the compacted graphite gaskets it is sometimes necessary to pre-compress the gasket and even heat it during compression prior to installing it into the engine. So, simply compressing the gasket to the installed load does not hurt or ruin it. If, however, the gasket is held under load and thermal cycled in the engine it will not be reusable. That is because the thermal cycling subjects the gasket to even more load that would cause it to be deformed beyond recovery if relaxed.


At least you can reuse the new gasket and bolts with no concerns.

Will DEC 20, 11:44 AM
I know I can reuse the bolts and that the stuff is lubricant/locker. Already had that conversation with Allen Cline. Thanks for the additional info, though.
As I was tightening the head bolts, the coating under the heads squished out between the head and the washer. When I tore the engine down I found shreds of it in the oil pickup screen. I was not a happy camper One more thing to be careful of on reassembly... pick all the shreds of coating off the bolt heads as I tighten them down...

This engine has been run, just not very much. A total of about 100 miles in 15-20 minute test drives. How does that affect the bolt coatings?

The head gaskets did tear when I tore them down. They also had some oil creep in with them, so I wouldn't have wanted to reuse them anyway.

Will FEB 12, 10:24 AM


Images of the piss poor hone job that the first shop did... Don't take your Northstars to 9 Mile Machine in Pensacola, FL
Now that I know what I'm looking at, I'm amazed that he let this block out the door. Certainly not the way to give himself a good reputation...

Now it's at a GOOD shop. Paul Mauzy Engines in Timberville, VA. Mauzy's shop was a hell of a lot better than Clint's in FL... Mauzy had 15K-35K engines sitting on palettes waiting... Aluminum big block with Enderle tunnel ram, pair of BIG quads, lots of nitrous, dizzy driven by cog belt off the front of the cam, dry sump lubrication...
Aluminum Hemi with a giant blower on top... the teflon strips on the rotors were so snug you could barely turn it by hand...
Aluminum BBC block on the stand with less than 3/8" between cylinders...

Gonna go on a ship for two weeks and the block should be done when I get back. Paul is pretty busy this time of year as everyone's building their engines for the upcoming season.

Since the block's gonna have two hone jobs done on it, the bores will be out of spec for the stock pistons I was planning to use. I'm shipping one of my stockers to Ross for them to use as a model to make a set of custom pistons for me. When the block is done, I'll email them the final bore spec and they'll cut the pistons to suit.
After that, yet another set of pistons will ship off to Swain...
Once the pistons are back from Swain, I'll go back to Paul for rebalancing the assembly. I have fresh crank to use because I'd like to try something....
Conventional balancing technique is to drill radially into the counterweights to remove material. However, grinding or turning material from the OD of the counterweight will remove less material, but have a greater effect on moment of inertia of the crankshaft. Paul Vanderley did this for Wcapman's crank, and I'm going to see if Paul Mauzy can do it for my crank. He doesn't normally balance this way but he's willing to try it. Maybe we'll both learn something.

Nashco FEB 12, 11:29 AM
Dang, that is a crummy hone job! Thanks for the update. Sounds like $$$ are adding up on this engine!

Bryce
88 GT

Will FEB 12, 01:15 PM
There's never time to do it right in the first place, but there's always time to redo it right...
boristheblade FEB 12, 03:01 PM
Wow, even our highschool shop did a better hone job than that.
Did you atleast go and try to get your money back?
Will FEB 12, 03:47 PM
not 900 miles away...
JazzMan FEB 12, 03:59 PM

quote
Originally posted by Will:

not 900 miles away...


Send them a registered letter showing your documentation of the problems, explain that you will be filing a small claims action against them, that you are giving them this one, limited time only, offer to reimburse you for what you paid them.

Total cost? A couple of bucks postage plus an hour to type up a letter. Upside is they cut you a check for the full amount, worst case is you get nothing and you're only out a cuople of bucks and an hour of your time.

Just a thought...

JazzMan

Will MAR 10, 02:48 PM

Much Gooder.

Finished bore size ended up at 3.667. Ross has this information and should have my pistons ready by the end of the month.

If you're in the area, Mauzy Engines is a GOOD shop.
http://www.mauzyengines.com/

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 03-10-2005).]

Kohburn MAR 10, 03:07 PM
big change fromt he first shop..

you up in VA ? if so I'm gonna hafta check out this car once you get it all together