Northstar rebuild: Will style (Page 13/119)
Will AUG 24, 08:35 AM
You mean the PCV system? Already tried it. Capped off the valve and the manifold with no affect on the smoke screen.

It's not rich. Trust me, this is oil smoke.

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'87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 08-24-2004).]

bryson AUG 24, 10:42 AM
Try hooking the PCV valve back up. Especially on a new motor, where oil pressure is high and the rings might not be broken in yet, this could make a difference. My friend's RX7 (different animal, I know) had the same problem because he blocked off the PCV system. He even got a ticket written for "muffler smoke" it was so bad. We made a PCV system for all of $2 and it fixed the problem. Hope this works for you; good luck!
--Bryson
Will AUG 24, 12:37 PM
The oil smoke is the same with the PCV system hooked up as without.

I found the culprit anyway. At the suggestion of the Total Seal tech I pulled the intake. There was oil on the backs of all the closed intake valves.

I emailed Allen Cline about it. He said that the Cadillac valve stem seals are the best made. Anywhere. Period. However, oil can seep around the OD of the spring seat and the OD of the valve guide and get into the cylinder. He's given me a procedure to use to correct this issue. When I do this (possibly later this week), I will post it here along with pictures and a how-to.

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'87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future

Fiero STS AUG 24, 04:06 PM
Cool, I will be watching for this
Will AUG 25, 11:48 PM
Allen Cline says that it is highly unlikely that the valve stem seals are causing the oil leak problem, BUT just to be safe I ordered a set of valve stem seals/spring seats (one and the same piece) from CHRF, along with their stiffer valvesprings and lightweight retainers. CHRF actually had a better deal on stem seals than the Caddy dealership at wholesale.

We'll see how things turn out.

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'87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future

Nashco AUG 26, 01:16 AM
Hopefully you figure it out, having a fresh motor act up is one of the most aggrevating things to happen with the car. I think the springs and retainers are a good investment, and plan on getting them myself eventually. Let us know what you figure out, thanks for the update.

Bryce
88 GT

Will AUG 28, 02:00 PM
Has anyone ever dealt with valve stem seals on this engine? I can't get the first one to budge.

I spent $1.63 on materials to make a tool that replaces half a dozen GM specialty tools to remove the retainers/keepers... but damned if I can't get the stem seals/spring seats to budge.

They move a tiny bit if I touch the side of the spring seat with a tool, but I haven't been able to find/make a tool that can apply any force there. There are holes in the sides of the seals that can be hooked into, but whether I try a hook in one side, the other side, or BOTH, the dam seal won't give a lick.

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Punch the gas and feel the back step sideways; rip off a powershift and hear the tires punished by torque; downshift, lift off and feel the engine braking that only comes from big cubes, listen to the pop and gurgle. Know that you are driving an American V8. There are finer engines made, but none that are this cool.

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future

Will AUG 28, 09:43 PM
I figured it out... they were just REALLY stubborn. Got one head done... Gonna do the other one Sunday night or Monday...

The spring seat part of the stem seal/spring seat pulled off of most of them, leaving the stem seal, which was still a bit onery.

The stock springs are SOO easy to compress compared to the CHRF springs... but then, that's the point, isn't it?

Dropped an exhaust valve into a cylinder, but was able to fish it back out so I didn't have to take that head off.

Got some pics... will post later.

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Punch the gas and feel the back step sideways; rip off a powershift and hear the tires punished by torque; downshift, lift off and feel the engine braking that only comes from big cubes, listen to the pop and gurgle. Know that you are driving an American V8. There are finer engines made, but none that are this cool.

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future

Will AUG 30, 10:04 AM
Got the right bank done Saturday. Didn't take any pics of the procedure itself. Now that I have the procedure down pretty well, I'll take some pics of the other bank when I do it tonight.

Cylinder head with no cams:

This is trying to show the difference between intake and exhaust valve angles:

Close up of the lifter bore:

The oil for the lifter comes in the opening in the bore of the lifter, then runs down the outside of the spring and drains back to the pan. The galleries that feed the lifters are completely separate from the cam bearing oil path. The camshafts are hollow. Oil is supplied at the front cam bearing and goes back through the cams and out through holes in the cam bearing journals to lube the cam bearing surfaces, which are native cylinder head material. There are no cam bearing inserts.

There's a GM tool that is a sleeve to drop into the lifter bores to protect them while working with valve springs and such. My dad and I didn't have that, so we made one out of polyethylene:

The OD of the sleeve is 1.290 +0.000 -0.010, the ID is 1.190 +0.000 -0.020. Yes, that's a 50 thou wall thickness. Since the CHRF retainers have a larger OD than the stock retainers, the GM tool probably wouldn't have worked with them.

This is the stock spring and retainer vs the CHRF spring and retainer.

The stock springs are 53 lbs on the seat and 109 lbs over the nose with the factory cams. That's the L37 springs. The LD8 springs are slightly weaker. The CHRF springs are 100 lbs on the seat and 180 over the nose on the factory cams. The factory retainer weighs 13 grams. The CHRF retainer weighs 18 grams. The lifter weighs 68 grams. Allen Cline told me that there's a Kawasaki solid lifter that will work. I'll research that once I get the car on the road.
The CHRF springs look like a spring and retainer from something else that was the right size and rate to work. If he had wound custom springs, I would have thought he'd have them tapered or behived to use stock retainers or something even smaller. Keeping the 13 gram factory retainer, and changing over to a lighter solid lifter along with a tapered vavle spring would have been an outstanding valvetrain setup. The CHRF springs are still very good, though.

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Punch the gas and feel the back step sideways; rip off a powershift and hear the tires punished by torque; downshift, lift off and feel the engine braking that only comes from big cubes, listen to the pop and gurgle. Know that you are driving an American V8. There are finer engines made, but none that are this cool.

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future

Will AUG 30, 01:47 PM

quote
Originally posted by Nashco:

Thanks for the update. So, have you fiddled with the clutch and/or flywheel with this fresh engine? Keep us posted.

Bryce
88 GT


I reinstalled it as it was... what fiddling were you thinking of?

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Punch the gas and feel the back step sideways; rip off a powershift and hear the tires punished by torque; downshift, lift off and feel the engine braking that only comes from big cubes, listen to the pop and gurgle. Know that you are driving an American V8. There are finer engines made, but none that are this cool.

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 08-30-2004).]