Northstar rebuild: Will style (Page 111/119)
Will APR 10, 07:35 PM
Been looking for CS130 info in order to set up the wiring correctly. There's a lot of minimalist stuff for people who are scared of wires.

I finally found this:
https://alternatorparts.com/cs130-sbpage1.html

Page 2 actually has the terminal definitions... only place I've ever seen them.

Maybe I should hook up the P terminal to a frequency input on the ECM so I can log alternator RPM next to engine RPM and evaluate the performance of my accessory drive... :-D

Since I have the accessory drive figured out, I went ahead and installed the crank damper.
I have both a GM bolt and an ARP 251-2501 to choose from. The thread is M14x1.5 and ARP happened to have a bolt for a Ford Duratec that should work. The ARP bolt comes with a hardened washer, but the chamfer on the edge of the washer and the lead in chamfer around the bore in the crank damper are the same size, so the washer contacts the damper on the 45 degree face. That's probably not a great thing to do.

The GM bolt has a larger washer (slightly convex, so it may have some "belleville spring" effect. The ARP washer is loose, but the GM washer is captive. I'd have to chuck the GM bolt in a lathe and turn the threads down a little bit to remove the washer.
I need to check the GM torque procedure... ARP's instructions say 140 ftlbs, but the generic instructions have numbers from 184 to 205 ftlbs for a 14mm bolt. Since the clamp load of the damper on the oil pump drive sleeve is the ONLY interface that provides oil pump drive torque, I want to overkill it where I can.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-251-2501

I picked up crimp lugs for the 4ga starter cable and 3/8" stud on the junction block I showed above. I'll get the cable cut and stripped this week, then mark the orientation for the lug next weekend, then get it crimped next week. ALLTRBO works in electrical & harness and has the tooling. Stuff he built is orbiting the Moon, so he can do fine for The Mule.

I also did a bunch of reading on CS130 alternator terminals in order to get my alternator wiring right. I posted the link to the page above. V6 Fieros have older type SI alternators, while Iron Duck Fieros (at least in '87) have the then new CS alternator. The Fiero CS alts have the SILP terminal configuration, while the 2006 Corvette (and many other apps) have the SFLP terminal configuration. The 2006 Corvette *I think* has the CS130D alternator, since the original CS130 stopped in 1996.

P
Pulse?
Connected to the stator, and may be connected externally to a tachometer or other device

L
Lamp?
Alternator “Turn on” voltage. This must run through an indicator lamp or other resistance.
Fieros use HIRBTS, but could work with a HIR source as well. Fed through C500 B3

F / I
Field?
Internal? Indicator?
Connected internally to field positive, and may be used as a fault indicator.
Corvette ECM monitors regulator duty cycle via the F terminal
1987 Fiero 4 cylinder connects I terminal to HIR +12V via C500 B1

S
Sense?
May be connected externally to a voltage, such as battery voltage, to sense the voltage to be controlled.
May be connected directly to the output stud to simplify installation; Fiero installation does this
May be connected directly to fuse block in order to compensate for resistive losses in the alternator cable; Corvette installation does this

1987 Fiero (4 cylinder):
S Wired directly from output stud
I From Fan E fuse (HIR) via C500 B1
L From Gages fuse (HIRBTS) through charge indicator via C500 B3 to turn on alternator
P Not used

2006 Corvette
S From Horn/Alt fuse (Hot at all Times)
F To ECM to monitor Field duty cycle
L From ECM to turn on alternator
P Not used

The Mule:
S Wired directly from output stud? From engine junction block? From body junction block?
F To ECM to monitor Field duty cycle
L From Gages fuse (HIRBTS) via C500 B3; maintains indicator lamp functionality
P Not used

I'll pick a place from which I want to sense the voltage to which the alternator regulates. I'll connect the F terminal to the ECM as in the Corvette application. If I wire the L terminal like the Corvette, the ECM will turn the alternator on and off, which is cool, but I would lose charge indicator functionality. I can wire the L terminal to the Fiero charge indicator light in the dash, then the alternator will turn on in RBT&S and I'll still have a functioning charge indicator. I'm not sure if the Corvette ECM will have heartburn over this arrangement or not.


quote
Originally posted by Trinten:

Nice. I've read really good things about their wires. I wound up ordering a set of Taylor 409 wires for two reasons, first being the guy doing all the important work on my car and races uses them and said 'get these', and two, Magnecor (at the time) was note offering 10+mm wires. I trust your commentary / data based approach to this stuff, so when you get your wires, if you don't mind doing an Ohms test on them and when it's all running, let us know if you have any issues, it would be appreciated!

The Taylors have an average amount of resistance, but I've read this also prevents/reduces the chance of EM noise causing issues with other electrical items. One thread I read ran into an issue with EM noise from their wires messing with their FAST system. The FAST guy told them to get an old school radio and tune it to a dead station before starting the care to help look for EM noise, and that's how they found the problem. Crazy.



2: 3.64k
4: 3.67k
6: 3.66k
8: 3.56k

1: 1.65k
3: 2.13k
5: 2.13k
7: 1.65k

Easy to see there are 3 different lengths.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 07-26-2022).]

Trinten APR 11, 07:30 AM
Thank you for taking the time to do that test and note it down!
Will APR 12, 09:58 AM

quote
Originally posted by Trinten:

Thank you for taking the time to do that test and note it down!



Now you have to measure yours!
Trinten APR 12, 10:29 AM
LOL roger wilco!

The Taylors that Mike wanted me to get were sold out pretty much everywhere, so we wound up getting a set of 10mm wires from Scott Performance. It's apparently another very reputable maker out there. So we got the set with the boots on one end and the other end unfinished, so Mike can cut and crimp to where he's happy with it. When we get that done, I'll ask him to do the resistance checks!
Will APR 12, 10:39 AM

quote
Originally posted by Trinten:

LOL roger wilco!

The Taylors that Mike wanted me to get were sold out pretty much everywhere, so we wound up getting a set of 10mm wires from Scott Performance. It's apparently another very reputable maker out there. So we got the set with the boots on one end and the other end unfinished, so Mike can cut and crimp to where he's happy with it. When we get that done, I'll ask him to do the resistance checks!



If you're building them in-house, you NEED to measure the resistance to verify that you did the assembly correctly & without breaking the wire core. That's an acceptance test for the builder, whereas is just a QA check for the buyer.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 04-12-2022).]

Will APR 18, 12:32 PM
Helped a few friends with a few things on Saturday.
Also, my dad owns a '73 GMC Motorhome that was my Uncle's, until he passed away in 2017.
It doesn't run well and the distributor has been seized in the block. We pulled the intake manifold for access to the distributor to start working on removing it. It's an OldS(*) 455 w/ TH425 trans.

Sunday I was able to get some mechanical stuff done. I got the starter cable stripped and marked for crimping. I installed 5x0.8mm screws to secure the electrical junction block, which let me fit the starter cable. I drilled and tapped the other hole in the alternator rear bracket. I turned down the threads on the GM crank bolt, liberated the washer, drilled it out for the ARP bolt and installed that pair with ARP moly assembly lube... I just need to call ARP to discuss the torque spec.

If it sounds like the mechanical tasks are getting tiny and fussy, that's because the mechanical tasks are getting tiny and fussy. I'm coming up to the completion of all mechanical work other than simple assembly.

I have drill next weekend, but I'm targeting having the harness design done, wire list done and main harness materials order delivered by the 4/30-5/01 weekend. Of course, I'll probably have to spend that weekend in POR-15 prison instead of working on wiring. I can also put the cradle up on a heavy duty cart that I've been using as a workbench, assemble the entire powertrain there and still have it at a comfortable height for building the harness. I'll probably do that, as seeing the engine off the stand, assembled to the transmission and on the cradle ready to go into the car will be really motivating for building the harness.


(*)OldSlomobile
Will APR 25, 10:57 AM

quote
Originally posted by Will:

Helped a few friends with a few things on Saturday.
Also, my dad owns a '73 GMC Motorhome that was my Uncle's, until he passed away in 2017.
It doesn't run well and the distributor has been seized in the block. We pulled the intake manifold for access to the distributor to start working on removing it. It's an OldS(*) 455 w/ TH425 trans.


(*)OldSlomobile



In other news, the distributor came out without too much trouble once we built a custom pry-bar to deal with it.
Since the vehicle is a '73, it had a small cap distributor. Large cap HEIs came out in '74. My dad has such a distributor that will go back into the engine. What we do not have is the off-center air cleaner base that GM used with the HEI because the concentric air cleaner base used with the small cap distributor interferes with the large cap HEI.

I want to do a Duramax/Allison in the thing, but that "requires" buying a $3000 LF72 transfer case/U-drive gearbox and figuring out what front diff I can use.

Of course I haven't gotten my wire list done yet and tonight and tomorrow night I'm going to be helping friends with homeowner(*) stuffs, so I won't get the harness materials delivered by the weekend. I'm going to be in POR-15 prison this weekend anyway.

I'm probably going to order the Delphi electrical center, but I need to make sure I can order all the relevant parts shown in the catalog. Since the drawing is not easy to find, I'll probably need to have that in hand to get the terminal names before I can complete the wire list.

(*) Ho-meow-ner
Will APR 27, 08:37 AM
Just ordered a Delphi/Aptiv 12110594 modular electrical center. It's small and holds 4 micro-relays and 6 mini-fuses. I ordered the component, terminal lock, spring latches and top cover. I also ordered the base, but that was backordered. I ordered from Mouser since CustomConnectorKits does not list it, and Mouser showed up on DuckDuckGo.

Once I have those parts in hand, I'll evaluate what terminals I'll need to order. There's a combination of 280, 480 and 630 terminals required, and I need to figure out how I'll be populating it.

With the modular electrical center family, I can upgrade from a 1-way base to a 3- or 4-way base and add modules, should I discover the need to upgrade. The catalog does not show a 2 way base, which is interesting.
Will APR 28, 11:26 AM
Catching up on photos:

Junction block:



Starter cable crimped:



Whole starter cable:



Check out this really awesome throttle adapter that somebody made!





The tensioner mounting bolt is snugly nested into a casting feature on the head:



Prototype alternator rear mount:



I have not been able to test it with belt tension yet, but it's probably ok. I'll trim it down a good bit, as well as open up the OE bracket around the power stud.

Crank pulley in place with ARP bolt & GM washer:
zkhennings APR 28, 11:43 AM
Any benefits to your chosen relay/fuse holding solution over the Eaton Bussman fuse/relay blocks that I had recommended earlier? I am trying to decide what to go with myself, or whether I should trust the factory wiring using the factory fuse block lmao.